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Old 01-29-2007, 08:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Onboard air and air tools

Can I run an electric air compressor and air tank with air tools or do I have to use an engine driven air compressor? Also how big of tank do I need?

Thanks,
Jack
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've heard some of the bigger "Viair" compressors will. I run a smaller Viair (got a smokin' deal on e-bay) to run the ARBs, but it is a bit weak for air tools. Takes a while to air up tires too...
I've been thinking about adding a York for tires & air tools.
*edit*
I run a 2.5 gal tank, it fit the "out of the way" place I had under the rig.
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Old 01-30-2007, 06:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've got a Pep-Boys compressor (the bigest electrical one they sell, but still ...) and I use it to fill an 11 gallon tank. It takes a few minutes to fill (only like 3-4) but it runs tools just fine.

It couldn't be used to do heavy fab work, but it will last long enough to, say, take off all 5 lug nuts, then reinstall them, or spin the nuts on my spring compressor so that I could R/R a coil on the trail, or loosten, then unwind those gi-normous bolts that hold the leaf springs in; or similar work. (All of those tasks I've used it to do in my driveway, since I don't have compressed air at home... other than the jeep) It will run my impact wrench at full power for long enough to break loose (or break) anything I would be able to if I were hooked up to a shop system. So for $50 for the compressor, $35 for the tank, and $15 for assorted hoses and fittings, (and the ability to spread that money out over a month or two) it's a fairly usefull system.

I've got enhansements that I'm working on (see the end of my sig), like a pressure switch to make filing the tank automatic, and hard lines to make access to the air easier, but with just the electric pump and a tank, it works great.

the 11 gallon tank is no longer than the smaller tanks, just thicker, so it doesn't REALLY take up that much more space, but I do admit that if I didn't have an XJ (with it's large storage space) I'd be more likely to buy a bigger pump, and smaller tank.


As for tires, I can't quite air -up all of my (33's) tires from one tank full, so I hook the pump up to one of the tires, and by the time I've used the tank to fill the other 3, the pump has got number 4. - Takes under 2 minutes.

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Old 01-30-2007, 06:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I run one of these compressors (upper left/399):
http://www.extremeoutback.com/index....d=1102294.2080

I have a 2.5 gallon tank also. I run 140 psi to the tank, and 80 psi to the ARB with a regulator.

Those pumps are 100% duty cycle and with 140 psi it will run all the air tools you will need on the trail (with a pause once in awhile).
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Old 01-30-2007, 07:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear View Post
I've got a Pep-Boys compressor (the bigest electrical one they sell, but still ...) and I use it to fill an 11 gallon tank. It takes a few minutes to fill (only like 3-4) but it runs tools just fine.

It couldn't be used to do heavy fab work, but it will last long enough to, say, take off all 5 lug nuts, then reinstall them, or spin the nuts on my spring compressor so that I could R/R a coil on the trail, or loosten, then unwind those gi-normous bolts that hold the leaf springs in; or similar work. (All of those tasks I've used it to do in my driveway, since I don't have compressed air at home... other than the jeep) It will run my impact wrench at full power for long enough to break loose (or break) anything I would be able to if I were hooked up to a shop system. So for $50 for the compressor, $35 for the tank, and $15 for assorted hoses and fittings, (and the ability to spread that money out over a month or two) it's a fairly usefull system.

I've got enhansements that I'm working on (see the end of my sig), like a pressure switch to make filing the tank automatic, and hard lines to make access to the air easier, but with just the electric pump and a tank, it works great.

the 11 gallon tank is no longer than the smaller tanks, just thicker, so it doesn't REALLY take up that much more space, but I do admit that if I didn't have an XJ (with it's large storage space) I'd be more likely to buy a bigger pump, and smaller tank.


As for tires, I can't quite air -up all of my (33's) tires from one tank full, so I hook the pump up to one of the tires, and by the time I've used the tank to fill the other 3, the pump has got number 4. - Takes under 2 minutes.

.
I think I may go for something like this. I had heard of the pepboys compressor before. I am going to look into this setup more. I have a pickup so I will probrally run the tank under the bed or under the toolbox.

Where does everyone mount their compressor?

Jack
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Old 01-30-2007, 07:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Not everyone has room or the pulleys and brackets for a York or other AC compressor, there is no doubt that if you have the room for a York, it rocks, but if you don't, I recommend one of these:
http://www.4wdproducts.com/Specials%20Page.htm
I have the one MAX Air 4.0 (almost identical to the Outback Extreme Aire) I got the $399 package with 3 gallon air tank, pressure switch, check valve, leader hose, etc.
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I mounted it in a large ammo can with quick disconnects so I can use it in another vehicle easily (quick connects with hard wire or jumper cables)
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I also have the pep boys Master Flow Tsunami MF1050 for my wife. It's a good little 12V compressor compared to the usual cheap 300PSI .00001 CFH 12V walmart cheapies. For the $60 it cost you could burn up 5 of them and still be money ahead. Checkers apparently had the MF1050 for $25 about 2 years ago, I doubt it though since they were $25 because they were discontinued, don't know if they still do, I don't have a Checkers near me. But Pep Boys as them every time I've been in.
Years ago, I wasted $70 on the TruckAir from JC Whitney, what a giant POS that was.

You probably read this one already: http://gearinstalls.com/pepboys.htm


Magazine article from 2005 4WD Toyota Owner ( I linked them cause they are huge)
http://protrux.net/compressor/compressor1.jpg
http://protrux.net/compressor/compressor2.jpg
http://protrux.net/compressor/compressor3.jpg
http://protrux.net/compressor/compressor4.jpg
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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... with 140 psi it will run all the air tools you will need on the trail (with a pause once in awhile).
yeah, that will work, but with a bigger tank, I don't ned to run so much pressure. My tools are fairly cheap, and are designed for 90 psi. So with 11 gallons, I can charge it to 105psi, and still have enough time to do what I need, without needing a regulator.

- Of course, I just bought a regulator **, so now I'll be abe to charge that big tank up and have even more usefull time. Of course my tank (and pump) are only rated to 125, so i'll still be lower than your pressure. but with 11 gal at 125, I doubt I'll even need to pause for a moment to do the standard stuff I use my system for.


guidolyons,

Tha's a sweet setup.



** I just bought a super-cheap home compressor. It's not capable enough for anythign, really, but it has a regulator, a pressure switch/erlay and a second tank I can put in series, after I throw the cheap 110V pump away. I got it for less than I could buy the components for.



.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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...
You probably read this one already: http://gearinstalls.com/pepboys.htm
...
Yup. That's exactly the one I have. Consider this another big, first-hand recommendation.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sktw8 View Post
Can I run an electric air compressor and air tank with air tools or do I have to use an engine driven air compressor? Also how big of tank do I need?

Thanks,
Jack
I have two compressors in my rig, an Oasis on 24 volts to get pressure up quick and a constant duty Viair 450 on 24 volts to keep the system topped off. But I need a lot of air. For a normal rig, I would seriously consider a large single CO2 system and carry a spare tank. It is expensive to set up but is simple to install and extremely reliable and much faster air delivery than any compressor.
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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i have the pepboys air comp. was not to sure after buying it but has been fine so far. 2.5 cfm (72 lpm). i also have it going into a 2.5 gallon tank. sure beat waiting for someone elses air system. i just use it to air up my 37" boggers.
i will let all the air out of my bogger then time it on how long it takes to air it up to 30 psi. i will post results soon.

model is mf-1050
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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air

I setup an extreme outback compressor with a retired scba tank as a reservoir/manifold, (THAT was a find and a half) it handles an impact wrench on the trails just fine, I use it at home to run other tools also since my big compressor setup died on me (no dough for a new one) It will bog down a little, but running it without a regulator at 150 psi, it doesnt happen all that much.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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...
i just use it to air up my 37" boggers.
...
37" boggers on a rig with a 4-banger? (from your sig)

Wow. I bet THAT makes for some interesting wheeling.

But back on topic:

I can imagine that in a YJ yor not looking for MORE equipment to pack in there, but one thing you might want to keep in mind is that the 11 gallon tank I got comes with a handle as is portable (seen it in Home Depot, Lowes, and Pep Boys). You can always fill it at home before you leave, and just cary it along when you are expecting to need to air-up. You can even leave it at camp, if you wheel that way.
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Old 01-31-2007, 06:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the help guys. It seems like the pepboy's compressor is getting good reviews so I'm going to try it. I won't run air tools much mainly just everyonce and a while to bust bolts off. Also I'm going to use it to air up my tires. I'm going to get the biggest tank I can fit. Hopefully an 11 gal. one.

Thanks,
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:56 AM   #14 (permalink)
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ok. i have the results in.
test1/ to go from winkle walled no air at all to 30psi =about 9 minutes

test2/ to go from 0 psi (no wirkle wall) to 30psi = about 6 minutes

this test was done with the engine NOT running.(battery only)
this test was done w/o the air tank. compressor only.
the test was done on a 37x13x15 booger that was not driven this week.
the time of the test was about 4:00 pm on 1-30-07.
the out side temp was about 63* degrees.
the test tire was passanger front.

pic 1 the compressor mounted on the fender.
pic 2 winkle wall booger 37x13x15
pic 3 hands free filling. (time to shoot the shit)
pic 4 the finished results
pic 5 the test dumbie
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
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ok. i have the results in.
test1/ to go from winkle walled no air at all to 30psi =about 9 minutes

test2/ to go from 0 psi (no wirkle wall) to 30psi = about 6 minutes

this test was done w/o the air tank. compressor only.
the test was done on a 37x13x15 booger that was not driven this week.
the time of the test was about 4:00 pm on 1-30-07.
the out side temp was about 63* degrees.
the test tire was passanger front.
FORYOURRIDE, how about a test with the 2.5 gal tank? I've been meaning to do a comparison of my POS Cambell Hausfeld Oil-less shop compressor v/s MAX Air 4.0 v/s the MF 1050. Obviously the MF 1050 will be slower but it would be inteeresting to see how it compares to the MAX Air. Maybe this weekend...

Quote:
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For a normal rig, I would seriously consider a large single CO2 system and carry a spare tank. It is expensive to set up but is simple to install and extremely reliable and much faster air delivery than any compressor.

True...until you run out of CO2. Oops, left the valve open over night. An empty CO2 tank will give you 0 PSI and 0 CFM.

An air compressor may be slower, but it doen't cost $15 to fill up every time it's empty.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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If I had the cash, I'd have an engine driven compressor.

If I had less cash, I'd have a CO2 system.

But with the money I had at hand, I was able to configure an acceptable solution with a pep-boys pump and a tank from Home Depot.

One thing about a CO2 system though... You're a squeez nozzle away from having a onboard fire-supression system simply as a side affect.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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...
this test was done w/o the air tank. compressor only.
the test was done on a 37x13x15 booger that was not driven this week.
the time of the test was about 4:00 pm on 1-30-07.
the out side temp was about 63* degrees.
the test tire was passanger front.
...

Engine running? Or just off the battery? Mine is a small but non-trivial bit faster when the engine is actually running.



And of course, that brings up one other point about the costs. Just because the CO2 tank has a documentable refill cost doesn't mean that the pumps (mechanical OR electric) are free to opperate. They are payed for at the gas pump. But calculating that would be far more than I am willing to address, myself.



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Old 02-01-2007, 08:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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good point.

engine NOT running

just off the battery


compressor $59.00-$10.00 rebate= $49.00
2.5 gal air tank $20.00
made to lengh air hoses to go to
tank9' then 2 lines one to each side
24" each to hook up to fill tires $27.00
__________
$96.00
install charge FREE


not having to ask and wait for
someone elses air system PRICELESS
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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anyone test it with a tank yet? my a/c clutch took a dump and i already have the pepboys compressor so might just use that and a tank. a new a/c clutch is $85, so a tank would be cheaper if its faster.

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Old 02-01-2007, 12:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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...
not having to ask and wait for
someone elses air system PRICELESS


yup!



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Old 02-01-2007, 12:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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anyone test it with a tank yet? my a/c clutch took a dump and i already have the pepboys compressor so might just use that and a tank. a new a/c clutch is $85, so a tank would be cheaper if its faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear View Post
...
tires, I can't quite air -up all of my (33's) tires from one tank full, so I hook the pump up to one of the tires, and by the time I've used the tank to fill the other 3, the pump has got number 4. - Takes under 2 minutes.
...

Not quite scientific, but it's raining outside and I dont' feel like airing down my tires just to time it.

I AM going wheeling this weekend though (probably on the sand, too, so I'll be airing down pretty low) and I'll try to remember to time it for you when I'm done.



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Old 02-01-2007, 01:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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yeah iam going wheeling this weekend to so ill time it without a tank for 33" tires.
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Old 02-01-2007, 05:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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ive been researching this same subject...........seems CO2 (ultimate air) is going to be the way to go for me.....even ViAirs best compressor doesnt seem like it can hanlde air tools........an engine driven compressor is the next best to CO2
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:21 AM   #24 (permalink)
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what the hell, i will do it with the 2.5 air tank. the wife is out of state so it will give me time with my JEEP.
should have posted up by saturday night at the latest.
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Old 02-03-2007, 08:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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results are in. same test as post #14, but with 2.5gal airtank
time around 2:00pm temp about 60 degress. 2-2-07

only saved about two (2) on each test
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