internal vs external hubs???

[muddindog]

what is the difference between internal vs external hubs? how do you tell them apart? is one better than the other? is one more expensive to fix or easier to fix? weak links and strengths? can they be interchanged?

[JGVABronco78]

There are basically 2 types of front driving wheel hubs. Internal hubs have splines inside and the mechanism that connects the axle shaft to the hub engages the splines on the axle shafts and those internal splines in the hub. Given the relatively small distance between the axle o.d and the hub i.d most devices are limited in strength due to the small amount of girth they are limitede to. Plus the splines in the hub are prone to wear with considerable usage. In this hub a solid drive slug, especially a wide one, is the strongest connecting device you can use if you can tolerate full-time rotating of the front axles and drive shaft.

The other type hub is made with a flange at the outer end of it that a drive flange or external hub assembly is bolted to similar to a free-floating rear end except that the axle stub is splined in the center of it versus welded. It has no internal splines to wear. The basic design is much stronger. Especially with the beefy drive flanges, but also with external hubs as the shaft dog is just engaing the hefty housing as opposed to another thin, sliding member.

[muddindog]

So it is possible that I could have a internal hub and an external hub on my Dana 44 in my 75 chevy truck? One hub has a short style hub with a bolt on lockout which I assume is a external hub. I broke a spindle 7 years ago and it yore up my hub, so I replaced it with a long style hub with a lockout that uses torx bits to bolt or in. I assume this is an internal hub. I can post pics if needed. So from what I understand is that in internal hub with drive flanges is the stronger?

[JGVABronco78]

Drive slugs or pucks as they are often called are stronger internal connecting devices that any internal selectable free-running hub. External drive flanges, and in most cases external selectable free-running hubs are stronger than any internal devices. If the wheel hub has splines inside of it, its internal. If it doesn't then there will be a flange on its outer edge to bolt something to.

[muddindog]

so this is the external


and this is the internal



edit due to picture size

edit...again....sorry but for some reason my photobucket isnt sizing down my pics when i do it... will try to fix later

[pdxblazer]

yes the top one is external and the bottom one is internal

[Davethorik]

the easiest way to think about an external hub front axle is to think of it like the hub on a full floating rear axle, that just bolts in place.

theoretically a splined internal hub is stronger but stripped splines in a hub isn't that big of a problem that i've seen, yeah it happens but not frequently. i have never seen an external hub that sheared all of the bolts holding it in place, either.

some people say the bolts on external hubs back out, i had spicer external hub-loks on the d44 under my gmc and they wouldn't come loose, even though those hubs seemed to be made out of pretty cheap pot metal that could maybe compress under a fastener. the 60 i have to replace the 44 came from a dodge and has external drive slugs. I'd have to believe they're bulletproof.

[urjb]

I've seen both types work fine if the parts are in good shape, the prob I usually see is that the external hubs have probs with the threads being fubar'ed, but this is most likely due to 35 year old parts that have seen improper assembly and maintenance over the years.

YMMV

Eric

[youngdanny]

Ive got external drw and the guy I got it from couldnt keep the bolts tight, one side broke all 8 bolts, I have now switched to drw internal chev hubs. IMO the intertnal hubs have more contact area, so I think they are stronger than the external, but you can make your own external drive flages with a set of axle gears.

[muddindog]

well i guess i got the best of both worlds since i have one of each on my axle

[youngdanny]

I would reccomend locktite on the external drive flange bolts, I had lock washers and they dont work, I was constantly tightning them up

[muddindog]

ive had this truck for awhile and i have never had a problem with the bolts coming loose on the one. and the one that had the broke spindle before never came loose either. but the internal one i have snugged the torx bolts several times and it still seems to wiggle around, dont think i like that.

[muddindog]

so i suppose that a dana 60 can be either or also?

[youngdanny]

i was tallking about a 60, I dont know much about the 44

[muddindog]

oh yeah guess they never really made a drw d44 did they

edit- shoulda added a in there

[JGVABronco78]

Originally Posted by muddindog

oh yeah guess they never really made a drw d44 did they

edit- shoulda added a in there

Internal/external doesn't have anything to do with SRW or DRW. Bothh 44's and 60's can be had that way. I'm not sure what dictates from the factory which way they come. I'm going to assume the externals were primarily for stronger drive flanges, and the bolt-on part-time hubs were an afterthought.

[youngdanny]

I think it matters what it had for a transfer case, the full time 4wd never came with drive flanges

[guidolyons]

Originally Posted by youngdanny

I think it matters what it had for a transfer case, the full time 4wd never came with drive flanges

put down the crack pipe. Full time 4WD came with either:
A. drive flanges/slugs
or
B. Unit bearing hubs
or
C. a previous owner swapped in a part time 4WD kit/transfercase and added locking hubs.

To the OP, external locking hubs are not interchangable with internal locking hubs, they use a different hub. The external hubs are typically considered weaker than the internal hubs, and can be harder to find parts for since they are less common. If you stick with the external style, make sure you lock-tite the bolts, or use studs, as they can work loose and shear.

Whichever style you end up using, I'd recommend that you at least make both sides the same style so you only have to carry one style of spare.

[muddindog]

Originally Posted by JGVABronco78

Internal/external doesn't have anything to do with SRW or DRW. Bothh 44's and 60's can be had that way. I'm not sure what dictates from the factory which way they come. I'm going to assume the externals were primarily for stronger drive flanges, and the bolt-on part-time hubs were an afterthought.

i know that both dana44 and 60 can be had in internal and external but i have never heard of a drw dana 44 so it would have to be a drw dana 60 right? correct me if im wrong.

[JGVABronco78]

Originally Posted by muddindog

i know that both dana44 and 60 can be had in internal and external but i have never heard of a drw dana 44 so it would have to be a drw dana 60 right? correct me if im wrong.

I wasn't following along that well. I thought it was being said that external hubs were unique to DRW and they are not. They can be found on SRW and I assume also on DRW but have never seen them. No, I have never seen or heard of a Dana 44 coming on a DRW. To have enough GVWR to warrant a DRW you would think that would warrant a Dana 60 front as well.