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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-11-2010 10:23 AM
aloharover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s View Post
I thought aloharover wanted to put this on a road driven rig? At least that's what I was responding too.
Thanks, yes I performed an unauthorized hijack
10-10-2010 09:29 PM
Puffdragon I'm lost WTFE. The whole hydro thing came from the front a-arm deal and how you needed hydro to eliminate the steering issues. Maybe I slept through a post or two.
10-10-2010 09:20 PM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
Not sure we really disagree David. For a race car/Truck, there is a bit more to it than throwing something in. I personally don't have much interest in race cars and generally don't have a desire to drive my crawlers down the highway at 70MPH. If I want to go fast with my trucks, I do it with them on a gooseneck and a nice tow rig.

I have designed many Full hydro setups and have worked with Tom the founder of AGR and soon after PSC so I know what you are trying to express. But I am not sure that a custom rig with an A-arm front end, rover axles and full hydro is going to be a race car or drive the highway at 70+ But I could be wrong, it happens like once a year or so.
I thought aloharover wanted to put this on a road driven rig? At least that's what I was responding too.
10-10-2010 08:51 PM
Puffdragon Not sure we really disagree David. For a race car/Truck, there is a bit more to it than throwing something in. I personally don't have much interest in race cars and generally don't have a desire to drive my crawlers down the highway at 70MPH. If I want to go fast with my trucks, I do it with them on a gooseneck and a nice tow rig.

I have designed many Full hydro setups and have worked with Tom the founder of AGR and soon after PSC so I know what you are trying to express. But I am not sure that a custom rig with an A-arm front end, rover axles and full hydro is going to be a race car or drive the highway at 70+ But I could be wrong, it happens like once a year or so.
10-10-2010 08:37 PM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
Well, turning down pressure is easy on 99% of the pumps available to us. I would offer to show you how, but I cant really see you needing to lower your pressure. And I am not sure I really meant to lower the pressure over a stock PSI so much as I meant don't bump up the pressure.

My 404 uses stock "canned Ham" saginaw pressure and provides very nice steering pressure and feel. This pressure is acceptable for a rover. But I have bumped up pressure on many builds to the point that you could blow on the wheel and it would steer. This might not be the best option for the smaller components of a rover axle.

The feel of hydro steering comes from basically two things.

One pressure
And Two Flow rate

Both of these are adjustable up or down in a myriad of ways to yield virtually and feel you want and to help reduce stress on components.

Back to the pump, If one were concerned, you could easily test the stock rover box forces with a large spring gauge or something of that sort. Then you could apply the same method of testing to your ned hydro system. Then its just a matter of increasing or decreasing your pressure to get it say 25% better than stock at a minimum. Or a rudimentary math wizz could easily calculate the ram size needed to produce this pressure based on your PS pump pressure. As this would be the only easy way to lower the steering forces with a rover PS pump.
While I don't really disagree you all that much, I have to, this is pirate.

First, the pressure and flow have to be right for the ram. Most stock pumps can't get to where you need to be to work perfectly. A stock rover pump, well, at least the ones I have worked with, simply won't deal well with using a full hydro ram at speed. Slow wheeling, just about anything will get you by, but 70 on a highway, or dirt, is another story.

Then on to perhaps one of the most important part, the orbital. It's critical. I tried 3 before I found the one that worked for my application. I am in the process again right now.

I guess what I am saying, is for it to work really well, the pump has to be matched to the ram and both have to be matched to the orbital. Running this with that and lowering this to not break that, is not something I would not do.

Really, really good steering is something that you don't realize you don't have, untill you have it. And once you have it, you bitch about everything that doesn't. Trust me.
10-09-2010 07:40 PM
Puffdragon which ever floats your boat really. There are reasons to do it both ways, and it depends on how much room you have, as well as if you use a double or single ended ram.
10-09-2010 04:36 PM
aloharover Ok, then on a coil sals would you run the ram on the front side or back side?
10-09-2010 09:05 AM
Puffdragon Well, turning down pressure is easy on 99% of the pumps available to us. I would offer to show you how, but I cant really see you needing to lower your pressure. And I am not sure I really meant to lower the pressure over a stock PSI so much as I meant don't bump up the pressure.

My 404 uses stock "canned Ham" saginaw pressure and provides very nice steering pressure and feel. This pressure is acceptable for a rover. But I have bumped up pressure on many builds to the point that you could blow on the wheel and it would steer. This might not be the best option for the smaller components of a rover axle.

The feel of hydro steering comes from basically two things.

One pressure
And Two Flow rate

Both of these are adjustable up or down in a myriad of ways to yield virtually and feel you want and to help reduce stress on components.

Back to the pump, If one were concerned, you could easily test the stock rover box forces with a large spring gauge or something of that sort. Then you could apply the same method of testing to your ned hydro system. Then its just a matter of increasing or decreasing your pressure to get it say 25% better than stock at a minimum. Or a rudimentary math wizz could easily calculate the ram size needed to produce this pressure based on your PS pump pressure. As this would be the only easy way to lower the steering forces with a rover PS pump.
10-08-2010 09:57 PM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
Uhhh, can you guys see me nodding my head in disappointment.

Full hydro is perfectly suited to rover axles and you will not rip off your knuckle. Just don't turn up your pressure to much and your fine. Full hydro can be setup to apply as much or as little pressure as you need. So as long as you don't over do it, your knuckle will be just as happy as it it stock. Your more likely to tweek tie rods every day than ripping knuckles off.
I don't agree. Turning down the pressure makes the steering perform poorly. And I'm not even sure how you would turn down a good pump.

Just make sure the stroke on the ram is just right and drive knowing that your steering is stronger than your knuckle.
10-08-2010 09:00 PM
Puffdragon Uhhh, can you guys see me nodding my head in disappointment.

Full hydro is perfectly suited to rover axles and you will not rip off your knuckle. Just don't turn up your pressure to much and your fine. Full hydro can be setup to apply as much or as little pressure as you need. So as long as you don't over do it, your knuckle will be just as happy as it it stock. Your more likely to tweek tie rods every day than ripping knuckles off.
10-08-2010 07:59 PM
mongosd2
Quote:
Originally Posted by aloharover View Post
OK, so doing some research on the Rover forum at Pirate4x4 and a lot of folks are saying not to stick full hydro on Rover axles, claim it will rip the knuckles off.

I put toy fzj80 axles under mine...
10-08-2010 07:55 PM
aloharover OK, so doing some research on the Rover forum at Pirate4x4 and a lot of folks are saying not to stick full hydro on Rover axles, claim it will rip the knuckles off.

10-08-2010 01:52 PM
mongosd2
Quote:
Originally Posted by aloharover View Post
Makes sense.
I am running a Scout II box and a GM diesel pump, to run the hydroboost.
I know the box goes in the bin. But any issues with full hydro system working in conjunction with hydroboost? I have the room, would I run dual pumps?

Lookie there....research
I'm running a PSC df100 orbital, 2.5x8" double ended ram and a TG pump, it runs both my steering and hydroboost with zero issues. Just make sure your ps res has return fittings for both the ps system and hydro boost. You'll also need a cooler...

running on the street is not a problem and have very little wander
10-08-2010 01:41 PM
aloharover Makes sense.
I am running a Scout II box and a GM diesel pump, to run the hydroboost.
I know the box goes in the bin. But any issues with full hydro system working in conjunction with hydroboost? I have the room, would I run dual pumps?

Lookie there....research

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...t-p-17018.html looks like it fits the bill.
10-08-2010 08:37 AM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by aloharover View Post
Full hydro... great something else to researcha dn spend money on
You only have to spend money. No research. PSC. Get the Go Fast 10an kit with appropriate feedback orbital, matching pump and single or double end ram. The difference between the two is very small IMO. Buy as a full kit, tell them exactly what you want and you shall recieve!

They will tell you not to run full hydro on the street but it's for cover. It's the only way to go. The rover box is shit, and nothing else fits in there.
10-08-2010 08:24 AM
aloharover Full hydro... great something else to researcha dn spend money on
10-08-2010 12:51 AM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by uninformed View Post
what.............are you saying that everything on the interweb isnt true

does your truck handle better on road at speed than a new gen RR
I don't know, I've never driven one. But probably. And mine looks better too.
10-08-2010 12:29 AM
uninformed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s View Post
Full hydro is completely legal in 48 states. There are 2 where it is a grey area, I can't remember which two. It being illegal is a complete Internet myth. And, if set up correctly, it will be better than any LR that came from the factory.
what.............are you saying that everything on the interweb isnt true

does your truck handle better on road at speed than a new gen RR
10-07-2010 08:59 PM
Puffdragon Buck is pretty much right about the hydro. I wouldn't be as bold in my statement as he was, but he is right. In fact, there are a few new production cars that have hydro I believe.
10-07-2010 08:35 PM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by aloharover View Post
Ok this makes sense to me. If you tried to do the Aframe and single point connection at the axle and run a panhard, first time axle cycles, something has to brake.

And full hydro is not legal for a street vehicle?

Starting to think I should just say f-it and sell the coil overs and brackets and just put a set of rear parabolics up front
Full hydro is completely legal in 48 states. There are 2 where it is a grey area, I can't remember which two. It being illegal is a complete Internet myth. And, if set up correctly, it will be better than any LR that came from the factory.
10-07-2010 07:32 PM
aloharover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
Because you no longer have a panhard rod to reference your drag link. So, up and down travel will result in the truck steering with no input from the driver. Very annoying problem.
Ok this makes sense to me. If you tried to do the Aframe and single point connection at the axle and run a panhard, first time axle cycles, something has to brake.

And full hydro is not legal for a street vehicle?

Starting to think I should just say f-it and sell the coil overs and brackets and just put a set of rear parabolics up front
10-07-2010 07:25 PM
aloharover
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
Truly a talented man you are Buck!!!! Just don't let your wife know you can multitask,that never works out.
Isn't that how you get her to agree to bringing her sister into bed?
10-05-2010 08:58 PM
Puffdragon Truly a talented man you are Buck!!!! Just don't let your wife know you can multitask,that never works out.
10-05-2010 08:16 PM
Buckon37s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffdragon View Post
Leave it to you two to derail a thread in a single bound.
I can multi-task. Both bring tech, and derail.
10-05-2010 11:26 AM
Toy-Roverlander
Quote:
__________________
Keith
www.rovertracks.com
Braaaahhh!
Fixed it for ya
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