'85 720 Z24 engine sputter. Need help !! - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 03-22-2004, 01:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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'85 720 Z24 engine sputter. Need help !!

This is a 4cyl, with 8 plugs, so my knowledge is worthless.
It idles rough, and when flooring it in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th the engine sputters, and acts like its starving for fuel. If i back off the gas a bit, it seems ok.
Going up hills has the same affect. Under load fuel issues ??
What do you gurus think ?? gas line plugged ?, fuel pickup bad?
carb need rebuilding ?? stick of dynamite repair ??
Please help




BTW, I did replace plug wires, sanded plugs, cap, and rotor,
and replaced fuel filter. Im even using high test gas.
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Old 03-22-2004, 02:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Did you replace the fuel filter by the tank?
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Old 03-22-2004, 03:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BC Ace
Did you replace the fuel filter by the tank?
Yes, that is the one.
Although it took about 15 minutes to find. Hayes repair book, and owners book, doesnt show where it is.
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Old 03-23-2004, 11:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Its common for the wires to get switched up, my friend has a 720 and the wires were running from the coils to the wrong plugs... and the coils wernt working right. Check all wiring, then check the coils. The coils are both on when it warms up but goes to one after, so unplug one at a time and try it, then switch bacl ect.... also the stutter sounds like the timing is too far back or that the wires are cracked.
Long story short, the 720 has twice the crap of any other 4banger and is a Bi#ch to diagnose. Dont buy any parts till you diagnose everything or be prepared to pay $$$$ for wires, cap, coils ect... Dont asume that the last owner put the wires in the right order!!! Check that first.
Good luck.
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Electronically Controlled Carb

Dog
Currently working on getting EFI into his 84.
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Old 03-23-2004, 05:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hillclimber
Its common for the wires to get switched up,

Check all wiring, then check the coils. The coils are both on when it warms up but goes to one after, so unplug one at a time and try it, then switch bacl ect.... also the stutter sounds like the timing is too far back or that the wires are cracked.
I will check the plug wire order now. Thanx

I know the wires are not cracked, they are new.
I will get timing checked too. Thanx
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Old 03-23-2004, 05:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DopeyDog
Electronically Controlled Carb
Umm, this WILL sound stupid, but how I even begin to fix it, or see whats wrong ???
Should i use my last option in first post ??"Stick of dynamite repair" ??
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Old 03-23-2004, 07:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you have the ECC, there will be a computer box under your passenger seat that you can get problem codes from.
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Old 03-23-2004, 09:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BC Ace
If you have the ECC, there will be a computer box under your passenger seat that you can get problem codes from.
there is a box under the drivers seat, but i dont see any lights,.
I was told that i can watch the lights, and look it up to see what the problem is. But, No lights, No code !?

Any other help ?
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Old 03-24-2004, 10:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Well I didn't mean that personally just expressing my thoughts on Nissan's ECC. Please hold while I dig up diagnosis info . . . Do you got a Hayne's or Chilton's manual. . .

Quote:
Diagnostic Procedure for Carburetor Engines
1. Inspect engine for air leaks, etc. (Vacum Lines, lots of em)
2. Check fuel supply system.
3. Perform ignition oscilloscope check. (Cap, Rotor, Coils, etc)
4. Check engine cmopression pressure.()
5. Check deceleration devices.
6. Check ignition timing and idle RPM.
7. Check idle CO%.
8. Perform driveability check.
9. Check detonation control system.
10. Check carburetor. (Check E.C.C. if you have it, CA)
And I can't find any information on trouble codes in the FSM, but have a nagging thought that I saw trouble codes for these things somewhere. Lights might not be in an easy to see location and I know it has lights at least one to indicate it's still working.

Dog
Good Luck with that.
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey,

I recently had exactly the same probs on my 84 kingcab. But it is an 84 so I dont know if this helps but...

I changed the two filters by the tank. Theres the small inline one and then theres another one inside the electric fuel pump thats right beside the inline one. You have to get the filter from the dealer. I couldnt find an aftermarket one like the fram one I used to change the inline one.

I ended up taking off the carb and rebuilding it as well. That made a world of difference. It took me two days and picture taking as I took the thing apart as I am not the best at following exploded diagrams like the one provided with the carb rebuild kit.

On the top of the float bowl and indicator glass in the front theres the fuel line going in, remove the lock piece and take that banjo fitting line off. Underneath it there is another small screen filter. Check that, if its completely gummed wiht crap Id think about trying to flush your tank and/or rebuild your carb. Try using the carb cleaner stuff if after you change the filters it runs better.

When I ended up taking my carb off I found small crusted buildup from years in the float bowl of not adding the in fuel tank cleaners and also the jets were half plugged. The other advise I have is to take a can of something like WD-40 and with the engine running spray around the bottom and where the linkages go into the carb. That will tell you if you have leaks.

If you have some corrosion inside your carb that means that you have some water in your fuel tank. Make sure soon after you put Methyl Hydrate into the tank to eliminate the water. Also, (I did this), make sure when you change things like the accelerator pump on your carb that you put the spring the right way in. Theres a ball at the bottom and if you dont put the spring with the piece that is across the bottom of the spring down against the ball, the ball will not stay in the groove when you accelerate and it will affect your running.

Good luck and make sure you let us know what the problem turns out to be.

Russ
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by RussFEST
Hey,

I recently had exactly the same probs on my 84 kingcab. But it is an 84 so I dont know if this helps but...

I appreciate your thoughts , and what you did to your truck.
I will definitley look into the items you mentioned.
I'm thinking it may be better to swap it out, and get a V6.

Again, thanks for the info. I will post what happens


P.S. Hey Dopey, no offense taken. I know that anything in a car that is computer controlled is junk Except maybe the stereo
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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UPDATE


In the past 2 days, I have replaced the spark plugs, air filter, breather filter, used an entire 16 oz can of carb cleaner, and had the catalaytic converter replaced.

I got a little power back, But, I still have the sputtering problem.

I am at my end, the dynamite idea is getter closer. Or at least a large cliff!
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Old 03-29-2004, 10:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The cat wouldn't cause sputtering, if you have over 100,000 miles on the current carb build then it probably needs a rebuild. I've been told the Nissan carb's have a bad habit of needing rebuilds every 100,000 or so. Unless you have the time and the patience (I tried rebuilding mine using the diagrams available, FSM and Carb Kit manual, ended up junking it) have someone do it or find a different engine. I've read buick's fit quite nicely, and ford's are nice too since they put the distributor on the front. Check out http://www.4x4parts.com for some ideas.

Dog
not that they are the only source for parts.
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Could be a lot of things.. The 'puter cuts out one set of plugs when the engine's under load, so it could be a problem in the system that remains in use.
Things I'd check would include testing the coils and checking the cap/rotor for carbon tracks or burned areas. If there's tracking the spark can jump to ground or a non-firing cylinder when it's under load. Also, it's not uncommon for rotors to burn through and short to ground via the distributor shaft.
Check the sight glass in the fuel bowl to be sure the level's correct.
Also, checking primary wires to the coils is a good idea.. I've found similar problems caused by a loose connection in a coil primary.

Lots of other places to look, but I'd start with these...

And unless your engine is bad, there is absolutely no need to replace it. Engine repalcement due to inability to diagnose a problem is just a BIT of overkill...
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Old 04-01-2004, 05:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LilRocky
Engine repalcement due to inability to diagnose a problem is just a BIT of overkill...
I whole-heartedly agree, but spending cash on replacing every other item on the motor, is the same overkill.

I am just frustrated that i can not find the problem.

Thanks for the info. I will look into it.
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Old 04-02-2004, 02:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I am definitely NOT advocating replacing parts as a method of determining the cause of a problem. In fact I adamantly admonish people against "throwing parts at a problem" at any opportunity I get!

This looks like an opportunity, now!

Don't just throw parts at it! Do some careful and methodical diagnosis.

Start w/ the items I mentioned, and go from there.

Frustration will not help you find the problem, so relax. (Serious... No joke... Working in a frustrated state of mind is usually a detriment to good results, and often the cause of further problems!) Relax, take it easy, if you find yourself frustrated, take a break, or leave it until the next day.
You 'll be more efficient, both physically and mentally.
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Old 04-02-2004, 06:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
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i replaced both the cap and rotor, and it does run better.
But, It still bogs when pedal is floored. I dont have the time to check the fuel system, so I will just have to live with this until i can find more time.
I'm going on a trip this weekend, and I hope it makes it.

Thanks to all for your input. I do appreciate it
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Old 04-06-2004, 05:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DopeyDog
[B]Electronically Controlled Carb

Give that man a Ciiiiiiiigaaar !!!!!!

I just recently pulled the plugs on the ECC, and lo and behold my truck ran fine.

It wouldnt idle worth beans, so i plugged one set of wires back in, and now my truck runs normal again

It will take awhile to find another ecc, but i will sometime

I want to thank you all for the input, I really do appreciate it alot.
Here's to you all
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Old 01-03-2005, 01:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Filters for sale

Hey guys-

Glad I found this thread. It was the reason mine was sputtering and ran like crap.

Who would have thought that an internal filter in the fuel pump would have been the problem.

I tested this therory our by taking the filter out and putting it back together and it ran great. I wanted to put the filter back in because I didn't want to have to replace the pump down the road.

I had a rough time getting the filters so I ordered 5 of them for anyone else that might need one.

PM me or email me if you would like one shipped to your door.
Thanks
Ty
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Post Sputter & Cough

Well, it seems that this is a common issue. I have a 1985 720 that spits, farts and sputter around the track. I know it is flooding coming out of the corners. Some say turn the carb around, but that is a machining issue. I do not have the ECU as all those systems were stripped by the previous owner. So what I am not clear on is, do both coils ust keep working as the ECU is gone? How much difference is there or would there be if I only used 4 of the 8 plugs? Does anyone have a suggestion for a older model Nissan carb that would work with less bumps in the system as I race around the track?
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Old 07-01-2006, 11:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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i have a 2bbl weber on my truck and i am having the same problems. do i need to disconect the ECC box or whatever? i just replaced all 8 plugs and i ran some fuel treatment through the gas. what should i do?
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Spark plug bank switching is controlled by the distributor module, not by the ECU itself. On the app with a weber, if you've disconnected the ECC, you basically disconnected the ECU. The ECU just monitors multiple vacuum switches, engine temp, O2 sensor, engine RPM and adjust A/F ratio via a valve in the ECC. Once you put on a Weber, you don't need any of that anymore. Sputtering at WOT, most like a fuel issue, not plugs. Dual plugs fire only at around idle to improve emmissions. Check your filters (and the one in the fuel pump), float levels, fuel pressure, main jetting.

For the stock carb app, there aren't any trouble codes for these ECUs, just check that the LED is blinking when the engine is warmed up and idling. These a pre-OBD ECU's, very primative with no trouble codes. Sputtering at WOT on a stock carb could be any of the above or wiring problems on the carb harness (common problem). Also, vacuum leaks can cause the same problem.

For more info on 720 stock carbs and ECC troubleshooting go here

http://groups.msn.com/NissanDatsun72.../techtips.msnw

www.teamtigerracing.com
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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??

So do i need to clean my carb too, rebuild it or what? i will go to the parts store and get those filters and hope they work, and sence i have a weber on it can i unplug my ECU?... and witch seat is the ECU under? there is a small box under my passenger seat what does that do? it clicks whenever i hook up the battery and im thinking is causing my battery to die......

yeah im a noob

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Old 07-12-2006, 08:26 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The ECU is under the drivers seat...

I'd say you could yank it except for one thing... there's a fuel pump control module that interfaces with it. Let me check the schematic on that before saying yes. Or, you can check it the old redneck way, yank it and see... (worst that could happen is the engine dies) I have Mikunis on my truck, I yanked my ECU but I wired my coils to fire both banks at all times..

If you go to the same link I referenced above, there's a test procedure for the fuel pump module, shows how to bypass it... I think you get the picture.

I don't recall anything under the passenger seat, sure it's not something someone added?

have you checked your fuel pressure at the carb? New weber carb, used carb??? Did it always sputter? Did you change anything before it started sputtering? Yeah I have a lot of questions too...
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