NFA question concerning single item... SBR + SMG - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

flatlander757 · 12-23-2011, 08:25 PM

I'm watching "Public Enemy" right now because the movie is fucking awesome.

I am poking around looking at the M1921 and M1927 Thompsons... evidently due to OAL, barrel length, whatever you need an NFA stamp.

Main difference is the 1921 is full auto, the 1927 is semi-auto... and the original full auto ones are super expensive...

Hypothetical question: could you technically buy a 1927A1-A5 SBR (semi auto replicas made by Auto-Ordnance... also makers of the original 1921 and 1927)... and make it full auto(thereby saving thousands of $$ in obtaining a full auto SMG)?

You still need to pay for the tax stamp for the firearm that needs to have an NFA stamp(due to being a short barreled rifle), so would that allow turning it full auto since that is also an NFA item?

I'm honestly not familiar with the NFA process(obviously), I am not sure if each stamp needs a specific description of whatever it is covering or what... but figured this would potentially be interesting.

Zuki Tyler · 12-23-2011, 08:37 PM

"New" MG's can't be registered after 1986.

That's why MG's are SO expensive, artificial restriction on supply... and thus greater demand.

flatlander757 · 12-23-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

"New" MG's can't be registered after 1986.

That's why MG's are SO expensive, artificial restriction on supply... and thus greater demand.

Damn... that's what I figured.

It would be badass to go to the range in a baller ass pinstripe suit with a Thompson in a violin case.

kwrangln · 12-23-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatlander757

Damn... that's what I figured.

It would be badass to go to the range in a baller ass pinstripe suit with a Thompson in a violin case.

If that's the intended goal, then bumpfiring is your friend.

Or, with enough practice, you could shoot damn near fast enough that some folks would think it was full auto and actually hit stuff.

flatlander757 · 12-23-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwrangln

If that's the intended goal, then bumpfiring is your friend.

Or, with enough practice, you could shoot damn near fast enough that some folks would think it was full auto and actually hit stuff.

No, that's not the intended goal or anything... just thinking out loud.

Hell, the range I normally go to doesn't allow rapid fire in more than 3 shot bursts... but if I buy a "Tommy gun" then I want it to be damn near historically accurate to what was used in the 30s.

I just need a basic 5" Government-issue 1911, a Thompson M1921, and an M1 Garand... and I think that would be the fucking trifecta of American firearms history for my collection.

44Runner · 12-23-2011, 09:22 PM

If you could register new MGs I would have at least 5 select fires chilling in the safe...

animator · 12-23-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatlander757

No, that's not the intended goal or anything... just thinking out loud.

Hell, the range I normally go to doesn't allow rapid fire in more than 3 shot bursts... but if I buy a "Tommy gun" then I want it to be damn near historically accurate to what was used in the 30s.

I just need a basic 5" Government-issue 1911, a Thompson M1921, and an M1 Garand... and I think that would be the fucking trifecta of American firearms history for my collection.

You'd need a m1919 and an m1918 B.A.R to fully complete the collection...

Zuki Tyler · 12-23-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatlander757

if I buy a "Tommy gun" then I want it to be damn near historically accurate to what was used in the 30s.

What are registered open bolt Thompsons going for these days?

Here's a fun way to think about it... how much $$$ do you have in your Jeep?

flatlander757 · 12-23-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

What are registered open bolt Thompsons going for these days?

Here's a fun way to think about it... how much $$$ do you have in your Jeep?

A quick look seemed to indicate $20k to $30k

It's fucking silly... I don't think I'll ever own anything full auto.

Zuki Tyler · 12-23-2011, 10:59 PM

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nf...gi?read=144367
No clue if this is transferable.
$12k

And how much do many people on this site have tied up in 4x4's?

Seems reasonable, for a hobby, when being compared.

flatlander757 · 12-24-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nf...gi?read=144367
No clue if this is transferable.
$12k

And how much do many people on this site have tied up in 4x4's?

Seems reasonable, for a hobby, when being compared.

Meh... when it's something that you KNOW costs 1/10 of the price to produce... it's a lot harder to spend that much... let alone save that much up.

And it doesn't have the pistol foregrip... it's gotta have that.

jmorrismetal · 12-24-2011, 04:33 PM

Once you have a machine gun you don't need a SBR stamp and any forward grip is ok to add as well but you do need another stamp for a suppressor (it's a "firearm" itself to the BATFE).

You can get a fullauto MAC for +-$3k, less than a lot of sets of wheels and tires.

flatlander757 · 12-24-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorrismetal

Once you have a machine gun you don't need a SBR stamp and any forward grip is ok to add as well but you do need another stamp for a suppressor (it's a "firearm" itself to the BATFE).

You can get a fullauto MAC for +-$3k, less than a lot of sets of wheels and tires.

Not as interested in the gangbanger full auto guns... I would gladly shoot one but have no desire to own one.

M16.. hell yeah. M3 Grease Gun... damn straight. Mac 10 or Uzi... they don't appeal to me.

TheRedHorseman · 12-24-2011, 07:50 PM

You must never have shot an UZI.

flatlander757 · 12-24-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

You must never have shot an UZI.

True.

If anyone would like to let me shoot one though I'll gladly do it

4runner · 12-24-2011, 07:55 PM

Or a MAC10

You should have attended an OSR shootout...

The M1 variant had the horizontal foregrip per mil spec...

I have seen VERY FEW semi auto Thompsons that were SBR...most have 16" bbls.

I have noticed that a lot of FA prices have come down slightly in the last couple of years...

flatlander757 · 12-24-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4runner

Or a MAC10

You should have attended an OSR shootout...

The M1 variant had the horizontal foregrip per mil spec...

I have seen VERY FEW semi auto Thompsons that were SBR...most have 16" bbls.

I have noticed that a lot of FA prices have come down slightly in the last couple of years...

Well at the very least I have a new compulsive buy for when I win the lottery or slip on some dog poop that a neighbor didn't clean up and sue for millions.

Zuki Tyler · 12-25-2011, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatlander757

Not as interested in the gangbanger full auto guns...

Quoted for irony.

aloharover · 12-25-2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

Quoted for irony.

jmorrismetal · 12-25-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

I'm watching "Public Enemy" right now because the movie is fucking awesome.

Quote:

Not as interested in the gangbanger full auto guns...

[roll:eyes]

flatlander757 · 12-25-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

Quoted for irony.

Meh... to me "gangbanger" = crackhead uneducated ninjas

1920s-30s gangsters(not "gangstas") are badass because they were bad guys, but had class.

I've been reading more and more on full auto weapons... and the more I'm surprised by how much I didn't know... such as how full auto guns used in crimes is so incredibly rare it's silly... Uzis were used by the secret service in the Reagan times...

And I found out that there have been maybe 4-5 crimes committed ever recorded with legally owned full automatic weapons... fucking crazy.

I wish the 1986 ban would get lifted so that we could purchase newer stuff... I had no fucking clue that all the full auto weapons out there(aside from police and military) are old as dirt....

So now you bastards have talked me into wanting a SMG... probably an Uzi or Mac10/11 simply because of cost.

Same thing happened with the Mosin I bought(wasn't interested in them much out of ignorance)... so I bought it... though I haven't had a chance to shoot the thing yet

I think I need to sell the Jeep to buy more guns...

TheRedHorseman · 12-25-2011, 06:29 PM

Don't think that the UZI is a low quality firearm, they are anything but that. The MAC was designed to be a cheap gun.

The UZI was designed to be highly reliable, durable, and easy to manufacture. It's not a POS by any stretch of the imagination. The Secret Service used them, and ironically, so did the German army.

Gordon Ingram took the idea of the UZI and did everything he could to simplify it and decrease cost of production. While it worked, I think he took the cheapening a bit too far, especially in the sights department.

Zuki Tyler · 12-25-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatlander757

I think I need to sell the Jeep to buy more guns...

That's what happens when you stumble into the OSR.

I no longer have a Samurai. And I can't remember the last time I had my pickup in 4wd.

A 9mm Uzi would be hard to beat. Half the cost of an M16, and ammunition is significantly cheaper too.

Gozuki · 12-25-2011, 06:45 PM

I really want to build a micro Uzi.

flatlander757 · 12-25-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

Don't think that the UZI is a low quality firearm, they are anything but that. The MAC was designed to be a cheap gun.

The UZI was designed to be highly reliable, durable, and easy to manufacture. It's not a POS by any stretch of the imagination. The Secret Service used them, and ironically, so did the German army.

Gordon Ingram took the idea of the UZI and did everything he could to simplify it and decrease cost of production. While it worked, I think he took the cheapening a bit too far, especially in the sights department.

Thanks for the info... it's funny how much movies/media warps the views of everything unless you really look into it... I had no fucking idea!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

That's what happens when you stumble into the OSR.

I no longer have a Samurai. And I can't remember the last time I had my pickup in 4wd.

A 9mm Uzi would be hard to beat. Half the cost of an M16, and ammunition is significantly cheaper too.

Yeah... I found this video and I think I may need to get an AR or AK just so I can try this bump firing...

bump fire 9mm ar15 - YouTube

12-23-2011, 08:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
flatlander757 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Member # 106845 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 1,801	NFA question concerning single item... SBR + SMG I'm watching "Public Enemy" right now because the movie is fucking awesome. I am poking around looking at the M1921 and M1927 Thompsons... evidently due to OAL, barrel length, whatever you need an NFA stamp. Main difference is the 1921 is full auto, the 1927 is semi-auto... and the original full auto ones are super expensive... Hypothetical question: could you technically buy a 1927A1-A5 SBR (semi auto replicas made by Auto-Ordnance... also makers of the original 1921 and 1927)... and make it full auto(thereby saving thousands of $$ in obtaining a full auto SMG)? You still need to pay for the tax stamp for the firearm that needs to have an NFA stamp(due to being a short barreled rifle), so would that allow turning it full auto since that is also an NFA item? I'm honestly not familiar with the NFA process(obviously), I am not sure if each stamp needs a specific description of whatever it is covering or what... but figured this would potentially be interesting. __________________ -Tony Last edited by flatlander757; 12-23-2011 at 08:26 PM.

12-23-2011, 09:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
44Runner Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9095 Location: Mount Pleasant, SC Posts: 2,867	If you could register new MGs I would have at least 5 select fires chilling in the safe... __________________ Buggy in progress - 22RE on pane, A340, 4.7:1, 8" f/r, 4Ds Project Straight Pimpin' - 1989 4Runner 3.slow 5spd SAS'd 8" F&R w/4.30 255/85R16 2005 Ram 2500 4x4 CTD 6spd QC SWB

12-24-2011, 07:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
4runner please fix my runner Join Date: May 2000 Member # 946 Location: WTF TX USA Posts: 6,561	Or a MAC10 You should have attended an OSR shootout... The M1 variant had the horizontal foregrip per mil spec... I have seen VERY FEW semi auto Thompsons that were SBR...most have 16" bbls. I have noticed that a lot of FA prices have come down slightly in the last couple of years... __________________ 4.3runner ---A golf course is a pointless exploitation of a perfectly good rifle range--- buy my ultra rare Omega III presentation rifle special price $42500.00 Last edited by 4runner; 12-24-2011 at 07:56 PM.

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12-23-2011, 08:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zuki Tyler Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Member # 24649 Location: Around. Posts: 2,121	"New" MG's can't be registered after 1986. That's why MG's are SO expensive, artificial restriction on supply... and thus greater demand.

12-23-2011, 10:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Zuki Tyler Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Member # 24649 Location: Around. Posts: 2,121	http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nf...gi?read=144367 No clue if this is transferable. $12k And how much do many people on this site have tied up in 4x4's? Seems reasonable, for a hobby, when being compared.

12-24-2011, 04:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
jmorrismetal Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Member # 189645 Posts: 111	Once you have a machine gun you don't need a SBR stamp and any forward grip is ok to add as well but you do need another stamp for a suppressor (it's a "firearm" itself to the BATFE). You can get a fullauto MAC for +-$3k, less than a lot of sets of wheels and tires.

12-24-2011, 07:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
TheRedHorseman Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Member # 64421 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 8,195	You must never have shot an UZI.

12-25-2011, 06:29 PM	#22 (permalink)
TheRedHorseman Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Member # 64421 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 8,195	Don't think that the UZI is a low quality firearm, they are anything but that. The MAC was designed to be a cheap gun. The UZI was designed to be highly reliable, durable, and easy to manufacture. It's not a POS by any stretch of the imagination. The Secret Service used them, and ironically, so did the German army. Gordon Ingram took the idea of the UZI and did everything he could to simplify it and decrease cost of production. While it worked, I think he took the cheapening a bit too far, especially in the sights department.