new polymer ar lower

[bpipe95]

Here are the three I have, I thought I had two more, but can't seem to find them.

When it first happened guys were trying to blame it on the piston upper saying carrier tilt caused it but, he showed pictures of no wear on the buffer tube or bolt carrier.

[DRM]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

Any halfway serious use: rifle classes, physically challenging matches, the really fun stuff.

You didn't answer the question.

I want to know what you intend to do with a rifle that will break the polymer lower. Specifically.

And spare me the internet lore.

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Originally Posted by DRM

You didn't answer the question.

I want to know what you intend to do with a rifle that will break the polymer lower. Specifically.

And spare me the internet lore.

Look up ACTS matches, they throw all kinds of shit at the shooter and their gear.

Have you ever seen someone try to clear a stuck case by banging the stock on the ground while holding the charging handle? I wouldn't trust one of these polymer lowers to that kind of abuse.

I guess I just don't get it, the price difference between a complete polymer lower and an aluminum lower is about $100, not enough for me to skimp on quality.

[TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted by DRM

You didn't answer the question.

I want to know what you intend to do with a rifle that will break the polymer lower. Specifically.

And spare me the internet lore.

Since you're having an illiterate moment, go back and read that post again. Specifically the parts you omitted.

But to add a few more examples: at any given ACTS match (in Tucson anyway), you throw your rifle, crawl with it, roll over it and do all sorts of other crap that could put enough lateral stress on that polymer lower to snap it. Sometimes you get a fouled chamber and have to clear it on the clock: hence mortaring the rifle to clear it.

Tiger Valley 4 man team match: ditto.

And in the spirit of e-ninjitsu I still haven't ruled out getting into the tree chopping business either.

[Zuki Tyler]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

ACTS match (in Tucson anyway)

As a polymer lower owner, I would never use one in the mentioned ACTS matches.

Just as a nature of the beast, those matches probably dictate something along the lines of "the heavier duty, the better".

Those matches are severe enough that I'd be tempted to have a "match-only" rifle, that way I wouldn't have to worry about my home-defense rifle getting unnecessarily banged around.

[TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

As a polymer lower owner, I would never use one in the mentioned ACTS matches.

Just as a nature of the beast, those matches probably dictate something along the lines of "the heavier duty, the better".

Those matches are severe enough that I'd be tempted to have a "match-only" rifle, that way I wouldn't have to worry about my home-defense rifle getting unnecessarily banged around.

Well, you could always run a Martini-Henry like Brad here

ACTS 02-18-12 - YouTube

[jettscott]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

And in the spirit of e-ninjitsu I still haven't ruled out getting into the tree chopping business either.

Here's the correct part for such an activity.

[Zuki Tyler]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

Well, you could always run a Martini-Henry like Brad here

ACTS 02-18-12 - YouTube

"Odd equipment".

...off to the ACTS forum to see the rest of the vids, and a match description.

[DRM]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

But to add a few more examples: at any given ACTS match (in Tucson anyway), you throw your rifle, crawl with it, roll over it and do all sorts of other crap that could put enough lateral stress on that polymer lower to snap it.

Just so we are clear - you don't have a single example of this actually happening, you just think it could, right?

[Cougar67]

You bastards are making me paranoid. I've already pm'd Pete to see what lowers he has in stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted by DRM

Just so we are clear - you don't have a single example of this actually happening, you just think it could, right?

For fuck's sake dude, are you droning on because you think these cannot possibly fail or something?

Here's some more fails
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=65134

Here's another from people on arfcom that you'd probably get along with
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/53...7_16_2011.html

I'm telling the guy to take it a bit easy on the poly lowers of that design because they are not as strong as the aluminum ones. This is due to how they copied 90% of the dimensions of the aluminum unit and made a mold for polymer. This is not a smart thing to do.

But you'll probably ignore this since you've got a hard on for arguing aimlessly about it.

[Zuki Tyler]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

For fuck's sake dude, are you droning on because you think these cannot possibly fail or something?

But you'll probably ignore this since you've got a hard on for arguing aimlessly about it.

Sounds like it's time for a PBB style torture test.

Doesn't DRM have a PCF receiver?

Hell, I'll even put up some cash for a replacement New Frontier receiver, in the event that it breaks.

[DRM]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

For fuck's sake dude, are you droning on because you think these cannot possibly fail or something?

Nope, not at all. I just like to call people out when they try to pass of conjecture and personal bias as fact. I like my facts to be... well... facts.

I presume the polymer ones are weaker - but I'm fully aware that isn't a fact, it's just an opinion.

[DRM]

Originally Posted by Zuki Tyler

Doesn't DRM have a PCF receiver?

I currently have 3 AR's - one aluminum, a PCF, and the NFA. Only the first 2 are assembled with uppers and in current firing condition.

[TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted by DRM

Nope, not at all. I just like to call people out when they try to pass of conjecture and personal bias as fact. I like my facts to be... well... facts.

You think that glass filled nylon and aluminum in identical forms and under identical stresses will behave the same?

Really?

[Toyoland66]

Originally Posted by DRM

I presume the polymer ones are weaker - but I'm fully aware that isn't a fact, it's just an opinion.

Polymer vs. Forged 7075 heat treated aluminum, the same dimensions.

The polymer is weaker, that is a fact. You could make the argument that it isn't enough of a difference to matter (I think that it does).

Tensile Strength of Reinforced nylon 6/6 GF 30 = 27 KSI
Tensile Strength of 7075-T6 = 63 KSI (yield)

[DRM]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

You think that glass filled nylon and aluminum in identical forms and under identical stresses will behave the same?

Really?

You ignored the second sentence right after that?

Really?

[DRM]

Originally Posted by Toyoland66

The polymer is weaker, that is a fact. You could make the argument that it isn't enough of a difference to matter (I think that it does).

Your second sentence is what really is important... does the difference matter? For any use I can see myself having for my guns - I don't think it will matter.

[Ben Segrest]

Originally Posted by DRM

Your second sentence is what really is important... does the difference matter? For any use I can see myself having for my guns - I don't think it will matter.

Then buy and shoot whatever you want. We don't give a fuck.

[TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted by DRM

You ignored the second sentence right after that?

Really?

You're trying to call me out because something that you are fond of might not be as strong as something else, and I'm pointing that weakness out. Because of this bias of yours, you seem to think I'm talking out of my ass here because my points are contrary your beliefs.

Is the polymer lower like the PC weaker? Yes, due to the nature of the design and the material it is made out of (this is why the cav arms lowers were nice and thick in that rearward area and the other stress points like the takedown pins)

Will it fail before an aluminum lower when subjected to strain? Yes, due to the nature of the design and material.

Is this a problem for the owners? As I said: that depends on how rough you are on your rifle.

Talking out of my ass? No. Not a fact? Cav Arms learned the hard way that these were issues and that's why the MKII lowers were introduced with strengthening throughout the takedown pin areas, and that's why they went to a non captive, longer takedown pin.

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman

You're trying to call me out because something that you are fond of might not be as strong as something else, and I'm pointing that weakness out. Because of this bias of yours, you seem to think I'm talking out of my ass here because my points are contrary your beliefs.

Is the polymer lower like the PC weaker? Yes, due to the nature of the design and the material it is made out of (this is why the cav arms lowers were nice and thick in that rearward area and the other stress points like the takedown pins)

Will it fail before an aluminum lower when subjected to strain? Yes, due to the nature of the design and material.

Is this a problem for the owners? As I said: that depends on how rough you are on your rifle.

Talking out of my ass? No. Not a fact? Cav Arms learned the hard way that these were issues and that's why the MKII lowers were introduced with strengthening throughout the takedown pin areas, and that's why they went to a non captive, longer takedown pin.

Just give up............the guy has 2-1/2 AR15's, he is clearly more knowledgable on the subject than you.

I'm selling the 7 aluminum lowers I have and replacing them with polymer.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM

I presume the polymer ones are weaker - but I'm fully aware that isn't a fact, it's just an opinion.

It is a fact. Same basic dimensions + weaker material = weaker receiver. That's material science and physics, not opinion.

[TheRedHorseman]

Motherfawking science, how the fawk does that work?

[DRM]

Originally Posted by spork2367

It is a fact. Same basic dimensions + weaker material = weaker receiver. That's material science and physics, not opinion.

My ti wedding ring is "stronger" than my gold one. That statement - while factual - really doesn't answer anything about wedding rings, intended uses of wedding rings, or anything else to do with the application of those materials in a wedding ring.


This is especially important when TRH trots out an internet sourced image, with no back story, and tries to act like that is an example of how these things will fail with regular use, or even no so regular use. It's intelectually dishonest, and lame.

And that's why I call you out on that kind of absurdity TRH. Don't post up unverified images and act like that proves your point - it's dumb.

[TheRedHorseman]

Dumb like the guy who says "My titanium wedding ring is stronger than my gold one, but that doesn't mean it's stronger because I don't intend to stress it"?

And where did I claim that they fail with "regular" use? (Well, the backstory on one claims that it failed under regular disassembly, but that wasn't my claim)

Remember, just because your sample of one (that you happen to be rather fond of apparently) hasn't failed doesn't mean others cannot.