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Old 02-23-2012, 06:08 AM   #126 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman View Post
Dumb like the guy who says "My titanium wedding ring is stronger than my gold one, but that doesn't mean it's stronger because I don't intend to stress it"?

And where did I claim that they fail with "regular" use? (Well, the backstory on one claims that it failed under regular disassembly, but that wasn't my claim)

Remember, just because your sample of one (that you happen to be rather fond of apparently) hasn't failed doesn't mean others cannot.

Dude, it's ok - you don't like 'em, you've made that clear. You've posted up random internet images and want to act like that proves your point. You clearly like to do things OTHER than shoot your gun - that's your call.

So what exactly else are you bringing to the table here?


And BTW, I'm actually rather indifferent on the polymer lower. For my intended uses, combined with the price point, it does what I need so far. The other alum. AR's I've owned have as well. I guess you're gonna argue with me on that too?
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:14 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Nice try on steering the conversation from your fail.

The "randomly sourced" photograph of a broken plumcrazy lower does help prove my point. That point being that an all but identical form made out of a weaker material is more prone to break. Think of it as a "proving the point" powerpoint slide shown after you make a statement to the bosses.

That tied into my next point: if you want to be all ninja like or explore firearm lumberjack careers with your rifle, you might want to consider an aluminum lower instead.

So how is using a photo of a broken one dishonest?

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Old 02-23-2012, 06:17 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DRM View Post


My ti wedding ring is "stronger" than my gold one. That statement - while factual - really doesn't answer anything about wedding rings, intended uses of wedding rings, or anything else to do with the application of those materials in a wedding ring.
Learn to fucking read past the first line of people's posts. I compared the strength of the material and stated that as long as you knew the differences going in that it was simply a difference. Either one is functional.

I said it here:

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It really doesn't matter. The fact remains that 7075 has the advantage in almost every material related category: strength, abrasion resistance, impact resistance, heat resistance, chemical resistance, resistance to UV light...
And here:

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Originally Posted by spork2367 View Post
I didn't say anything about the advantages in reference to the lower itself, just the material. How is UV resistance important? Carry that polymer lower around in the desert for a year...It's more important to some than others.

That's why I pointed out in an earlier post that as long as you know what the advantages and disadvantages are, it is what it is.
And again here:

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Originally Posted by spork2367 View Post
They simply aren't as durable as a 7075 forged receiver. They aren't going to be as heat resistant, impact resistant, abrasion resistant...etc. But as long as you know that going in, it is what it is.
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I presume the polymer ones are weaker - but I'm fully aware that isn't a fact, it's just an opinion.
This is the statement you made that I said was wrong because it is. Logic, physics, and material science are against you on this. Feel free to simply change the subject again so you don't have to admit your statement was flat out wrong.

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Motherfawking science, how the fawk does that work?
The operation of science is similar to magnets...a muthafucking mystery.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:19 AM   #129 (permalink)
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The "randomly sourced" photograph of a broken plumcrazy lower does help prove my point. That point being that an all but identical form made out of a weaker material is more prone to break.
Prone to break? break doing WHAT? Was it slammed up against a tree? Was it put in a press? DO you have a clue, other than "my buddy's friend is on a forum where someone claimed xxxxxxx"? No, you don't. You have some pictures of something broken - with nothing telling you under what circumstances it broke.

Prone suggests a pattern - how do you determine a pattern of these things breaking when you have ONE example, and no back story on HOW?

You mentioned the takedown pin issue on the PC lowers - assuming you've seen multiple reports of that I'll take you at your word - now that is something that can be called "prone to failure". Multiple failures under normal use.

Are you catching on yet to your assumptions?
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:22 AM   #130 (permalink)
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This is the statement you made that I said was wrong because it is.
In regards to those materials in THIS use - what I said was accurate. I've stuck to discussing the material in that realm from the start, it's not my problem you materials junkies want to flip-flop between ultimate material strength discussions and actual use.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:26 AM   #131 (permalink)
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BTW, I'll bow out so as not to derail this any more. Hopefully it can get back to discussion about the actual product, instead of chest beating (mine included)
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:32 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Prone to break? break doing WHAT? Was it slammed up against a tree? Was it put in a press? DO you have a clue, other than "my buddy's friend is on a forum where someone claimed xxxxxxx"? No, you don't. You have some pictures of something broken - with nothing telling you under what circumstances it broke.

Prone suggests a pattern - how do you determine a pattern of these things breaking when you have ONE example, and no back story on HOW?

You mentioned the takedown pin issue on the PC lowers - assuming you've seen multiple reports of that I'll take you at your word - now that is something that can be called "prone to failure". Multiple failures under normal use.

Are you catching on yet to your assumptions?
How fucking hard is it to understand that a lower made out of glass filled nylon of the same dimensions as one from aluminum will break with less force than the aluminum unit?

It doesn't matter how the force is applied, the point is that it is still weaker. Not opinion, this is a fact. The intended use is irrelevant, the fact remains that a plumcrazy lower is going to be weaker than an equivalently shaped forged aluminum lower(the cast ones are probably stronger too).
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:03 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BigBlue&Goldie View Post
Just give up............the guy has 2-1/2 AR15's, he is clearly more knowledgable on the subject than you.

I'm selling the 7 aluminum lowers I have and replacing them with polymer.
Why would you sell all of your aluminum lowers and replace them with polymer lowers?
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:25 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DRM View Post
In regards to those materials in THIS use - what I said was accurate. I've stuck to discussing the material in that realm from the start, it's not my problem you materials junkies want to flip-flop between ultimate material strength discussions and actual use.
No, it wasn't accurate. And I haven't "flip flopped" on anything.

Quote:
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I presume the polymer ones are weaker - but I'm fully aware that isn't a fact, it's just an opinion.
They are weaker. The use doesn't change the ultimate strength. They may be strong enough for this application, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they are weaker than a 7075 receiver. Does the fact that you wear a gold ring on your finger make it as strong as a titanium ring that you also wear on your finger? No.

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BTW, I'll bow out so as not to derail this any more. Hopefully it can get back to discussion about the actual product, instead of chest beating (mine included)
Bowing out would be about the most dignified way for you to exit this conversation since you aren't going to admit that anything you said was wrong. We have been discussing the actual product the entire time. To the best of my knowledge the material the lowers are made out of constitute the actual product.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:20 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Why would you sell all of your aluminum lowers and replace them with polymer lowers?
/sarcasm

I dont understand the point, you are talking about saving $70-100 over a proper forged lower on a part that can render the firearm completely inoperable if you trip and fall on it while walking around.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:02 AM   #136 (permalink)
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You mentioned the takedown pin issue on the PC lowers - assuming you've seen multiple reports of that I'll take you at your word - now that is something that can be called "prone to failure". Multiple failures under normal use.

Are you catching on yet to your assumptions?
You assume that it must be normal use that breaks them for them to be "prone to failure". You are wrong.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:30 PM   #137 (permalink)
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TRH - I got home tonight and fondled the NFA lower a bit. I see what you are saying about these lowers trying to stick *strictly* to the external dimensions of a standard ar lower, and other than aestetics - there really isn't a reason to do so. They could add some beef to the upper rear portion of the lower, still retain the standard pins and takedown pins, and probably add some strength all the way back to the buffer tube mount.

Who knows - maybe they were afraid if it visually looked different, it might scare people away :shrug:
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:01 PM   #138 (permalink)
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so far i see people talking aobut the Plumb crazys lowers and not the lw15 i cant find any of the New Frontier Armory ones breaking.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:14 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Supposedly they changed the mix of the polymer, that's probably helping. They also haven't been around as long, there's bound to be somebody able to break one sooner or later. People manage to mangle aluminum units often enough.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:23 AM   #140 (permalink)
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I'm going to order one of these first of the week, along with an upper from another source. I'll give a review when I get them paired up. Going to give it to my SIL, so seriously doubt it'll ever see 1,000 rounds, but we'll put it through the paces.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:20 AM   #141 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Supposedly they changed the mix of the polymer, that's probably helping. They also haven't been around as long, there's bound to be somebody able to break one sooner or later. People manage to mangle aluminum units often enough.
Someone send me one. If I can't break it, it should be ok for normal use. Wait... does swinging a rifle from the barrel to defend yourself from a horde of angry beavers count as something it'd normally be subjected to?

But seriously, if it's breakable, I could probably do it.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:09 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Put it on a 6.8 upper lets see if I can blow it up Some of the fits weren't great like the bullet button area but it works. I swapped the trigger for a milspec I had laying around I figured it would break
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:33 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Well, you could always run a Martini-Henry like Brad here
I don't give a shit about AR lowers, but this guy is awesome.

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Old 03-17-2012, 10:28 AM   #144 (permalink)
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I Emailed NFA asking bout there lowers waiting to hear back.
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:32 AM   #145 (permalink)
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I'm going to laugh if they email you the link to their "torture test" video where they use a press to try and show how their lowers are stronger.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:19 PM   #146 (permalink)
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no they said it has better polymers than the PCL and it has a life time warranty. im still up in the air.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:34 PM   #147 (permalink)
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I am picking mine up Monday morning. Probably won't get to shoot it for at least a week though.


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Old 03-17-2012, 11:19 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Didn't somebody put a BOHICA upper on a PC lower?

I like my face too much to try it.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:58 AM   #149 (permalink)
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Didn't somebody put a BOHICA upper on a PC lower?

I like my face too much to try it.
It wasn't me, but as soon as I get my shipment of NFA lowers I will be happy to try it. The fitment of the upper to the lower is pretty tight. The stresses are transferred right to the stock into your shoulder. Unless something isn't the way its supposed to be, there is little stress on the lower itself.


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Old 03-18-2012, 07:23 AM   #150 (permalink)
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