Pistol Questions - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Cue-Ball · 04-07-2005, 05:41 PM

If you don't like guns, Go away now.

That being said, I have been told before, but i am still confused what is the difference in a decocker model and Hammer Drop Safty, when talking about auto pistols? Which is better for CCW? and why? Thanks.

Cue-Ball · 04-08-2005, 08:59 PM

anyone?

Weasel · 04-08-2005, 09:05 PM

Never heard that before. The only thing I could think of would be that when the safetys on you can pull the trigger to manuey drop the hammer? The deocker on my SIG works great, but I'm not sure what that has to do with CCW. Although on mine I can drop the hammer without changing my grip and still be able to fire if needed.

Irish Style · 04-08-2005, 11:15 PM

With a decocker(Sig), you can have the safety on with the hammer back. So you still have a light trigger pull after you release the safety. With a hammer drop safety(Berreta), as soon as you put the safety on, it decocks. This gives you a heavier trigger pull on your first shot, and usaully causes you to pull your first shot to your strong side.

Weasel · 04-09-2005, 07:42 AM

my sig doesn't have a safety, non of the sigs do.

4runner · 04-09-2005, 08:20 AM

decocker is a seperate lever to decock or safely drop the hammer

decocking safety means the safety lever decocks or safely drops the hammer...

Dandee · 04-09-2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cue-Ball

If you don't like guns, Go away now.

That being said, I have been told before, but i am still confused what is the difference in a decocker model and Hammer Drop Safty, when talking about auto pistols? Which is better for CCW? and why? Thanks.

www.weapondepot.com has great forums for advice. They don't treat you like you're an idiot and so far they've been very respectful to some of my questions that seem very basic (even to me). They have a board specifically for ccw questions.

Just as an fyi in case you don't get the answers you're looking for here.

Have a great weekend.

Heather

mike · 04-09-2005, 09:10 AM

Personally, when carrying.. I prefer to be able to drop the safety and pull the trigger. Actually, these days I carry a weapon with a trigger safety and no physical safeties. Now I can just pull and fire. I don't like the DA first pull on anything.

Jason R · 04-09-2005, 11:51 AM

Usually on most auto pistols carrying with the hammer down and a bullet chambered is a major NO-NO. Carrying like this is a good way to have a negligent discharge.

Carry cocked and locked, or hammer down w/o a round chambered (for most autos).

Cue-Ball · 04-09-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason R

Usually on most auto pistols carrying with the hammer down and a bullet chambered is a major NO-NO. Carrying like this is a good way to have a negligent discharge.

Carry cocked and locked, or hammer down w/o a round chambered (for most autos).

How could it go off with chambered round and hammer down? Excuse the ignorance again but, how? I would think that carrying cocked would be a better recepie for neg disch. help me understand.

bbagwell · 04-09-2005, 02:48 PM

It is better if you have one in the chamber to have the hammer down.

GonZu · 04-09-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cue-Ball

Which is better for CCW? and why? Thanks.

A Sig Sauer.
The Sig has a 4-stage safety system, none of which include a manual safety (per se). Ask for details and I shall give them.

Thank you for asking.
It's refreshing to see e-questions about gun-function, before you accidentally e-shoot someones e-ass

rusted · 04-09-2005, 08:30 PM

You know what, if you gotta sit there and figure out how in the hell to get things to de-cock and how to work the hammer and stuff, what the fuck good is carrying that pistol?

You know, they have hammerless revolvers now. You pull the trigger, and they fire a bullet EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I gotta wonder how many people have actually had their finger on a trigger ready to kill something. People don't understand what adrenaline will do to your brain and thought processes. Anyone that doesn't acknowledge that fact is an idiotic asshole. Even the LEOs who taught us how to handle weapons for the boarding team and the SSDF emphasized the role of adrenaline in a live-fire situation.

I'm not a gun-nut and I'm a total amateur, and I know all that, everyone here should be talking about that FIRST, but they're not because they're not thinking about actual self-defense, I belive, IMHO, that they're thinking about stroking their cocks and looking at pretty pictures of pistols and sub-machine guns...

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

evilfij · 04-09-2005, 08:38 PM

I carry condition three on a glock [aka no round in chamber]

It is natural for me to pull weapon and rack slide. I lose about .5 seconds doing this.

Makes zero chance of an ND.

Any safety can catch and come off and while the chance of a accidental discharge is low, I think it is significantly higher than the .5 seconds making a difference for me

YMMV etc etc. etc.

zukanuba · 04-09-2005, 08:49 PM

decocker - ala SIG, drops the hammer, that's it

"hammer drop safety" - ala beretta 92/M9, drops the hammer and puts the weapon "on-safe" requiring another action to put the weapon "on-kill".

mike · 04-09-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilfij

I carry condition three on a glock [aka no round in chamber]

It is natural for me to pull weapon and rack slide. I lose about .5 seconds doing this.

Makes zero chance of an ND.

Any safety can catch and come off and while the chance of a accidental discharge is low, I think it is significantly higher than the .5 seconds making a difference for me

YMMV etc etc. etc.

May you never have to remember to do that in a panic. Really.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're not comfortable carrying a weapon you probably shouldn't. Just MHO

Weasel · 04-09-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusted

You know what, if you gotta sit there and figure out how in the hell to get things to de-cock and how to work the hammer and stuff, what the fuck good is carrying that pistol?

You know, they have hammerless revolvers now. You pull the trigger, and they fire a bullet EVERY SINGLE TIME.

What, so how that different then my sig or buddies HK? The fire everytime you pull the trigger anyways? Decokers only used if your done firing and you havn't emptyied the clip yet. If I every have to use my gun, I'm not going to bother to cock it first, thats what the DA is for.

Weasel · 04-09-2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilfij

I carry condition three on a glock [aka no round in chamber]

It is natural for me to pull weapon and rack slide. I lose about .5 seconds doing this.

Makes zero chance of an ND.

.5 sec? If your already preped for the inccident maybe. If something sudden happens you may not have time to rack a round then aim. If your ready to go you will have the first shot off before your even done racking.

Ben Segrest · 04-09-2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilfij

I carry condition three on a glock [aka no round in chamber]

It is natural for me to pull weapon and rack slide. I lose about .5 seconds doing this.

Makes zero chance of an ND.

Any safety can catch and come off and while the chance of a accidental discharge is low, I think it is significantly higher than the .5 seconds making a difference for me

YMMV etc etc. etc.

Carrying like you say mandates the use of two hands to deploy the weapon, unless you have a rear sight that will snag on something to allow one handed slide racking. That is all.

evilfij · 04-09-2005, 10:07 PM

What you don't get is that if you do it all the time it becomes second nature. The gun never leaves the holster, and if it does it gets racked. If you are close enough where you don't have two hands free you are probably screwed anyway.

You can also forget to take the safety off as well.

It is not a matter of comfort or not. I am comfortable carrying condition 1, I just think the chance of an AD/ND exceeds the chance of that little bit of time mattering so I go condition 3.

I mean in an ideal world I would have enough time to make it to the trunk and whatever hardware currently was residing there

Like I said, YMMV, me and the israelis will take the trade off.

PS If I lived in some shithole then I would probably carry condition 1, but where I live . . .

mike · 04-09-2005, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilfij

You can also forget to take the safety off as well.

.

Actually, no I cant.

evilfij · 04-09-2005, 10:14 PM

Well, if you have a safety, as in a traditional safety not a glock safety or revolver without a safety, you can forget.

mike · 04-09-2005, 10:17 PM

If I ever *have* to pull it, I want there to be no worries other than bringing it on target, knowing whats in the background, putting the finger on the trigger and squeezing. Thats enough of a decision I think

4runner · 04-09-2005, 10:26 PM

I even removed that little safety piece on the trigger of my glock, kept making my finger itch...much smoother now..

04-07-2005, 05:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cue-Ball Rock God Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 17311 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 2,252	Pistol Questions If you don't like guns, Go away now. That being said, I have been told before, but i am still confused what is the difference in a decocker model and Hammer Drop Safty, when talking about auto pistols? Which is better for CCW? and why? Thanks. __________________ Nex Pro Evinco "Death Before Defeat"

04-08-2005, 08:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cue-Ball Rock God Join Date: Feb 2003 Member # 17311 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 2,252	anyone? __________________ Nex Pro Evinco "Death Before Defeat"

04-08-2005, 09:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Weasel Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: Jul 2001 Member # 5639 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 5,995	Never heard that before. The only thing I could think of would be that when the safetys on you can pull the trigger to manuey drop the hammer? The deocker on my SIG works great, but I'm not sure what that has to do with CCW. Although on mine I can drop the hammer without changing my grip and still be able to fire if needed. __________________ Just Add Lightness I'd rather be simple-and-wrong than complicated-and-wrong.

04-08-2005, 11:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
Irish Style Wheeler Join Date: May 2002 Member # 12023 Location: Benderville, Ca Posts: 389	With a decocker(Sig), you can have the safety on with the hammer back. So you still have a light trigger pull after you release the safety. With a hammer drop safety(Berreta), as soon as you put the safety on, it decocks. This gives you a heavier trigger pull on your first shot, and usaully causes you to pull your first shot to your strong side. __________________ www.Tinbenders.org ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Last edited by Irish Style; 04-08-2005 at 11:21 PM.

04-09-2005, 07:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Weasel Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: Jul 2001 Member # 5639 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 5,995	my sig doesn't have a safety, non of the sigs do. __________________ Just Add Lightness I'd rather be simple-and-wrong than complicated-and-wrong.

04-09-2005, 08:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
4runner please fix my runner Join Date: May 2000 Member # 946 Location: WTF TX USA Posts: 6,557	decocker is a seperate lever to decock or safely drop the hammer decocking safety means the safety lever decocks or safely drops the hammer... __________________ 4.3runner ---A golf course is a pointless exploitation of a perfectly good rifle range--- buy my ultra rare Omega III presentation rifle special price $42500.00

04-09-2005, 09:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	Personally, when carrying.. I prefer to be able to drop the safety and pull the trigger. Actually, these days I carry a weapon with a trigger safety and no physical safeties. Now I can just pull and fire. I don't like the DA first pull on anything. __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

04-09-2005, 11:51 AM	#9 (permalink)
Jason R Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 11598 Location: USA Posts: 6,062	Usually on most auto pistols carrying with the hammer down and a bullet chambered is a major NO-NO. Carrying like this is a good way to have a negligent discharge. Carry cocked and locked, or hammer down w/o a round chambered (for most autos). __________________ This space for rent.

04-09-2005, 02:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
bbagwell Granite Guru Join Date: Nov 2004 Member # 38118 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 733	It is better if you have one in the chamber to have the hammer down.

04-09-2005, 08:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
rusted Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 11799 Location: Cleveland, TN Posts: 1,788	You know what, if you gotta sit there and figure out how in the hell to get things to de-cock and how to work the hammer and stuff, what the fuck good is carrying that pistol? You know, they have hammerless revolvers now. You pull the trigger, and they fire a bullet EVERY SINGLE TIME. I gotta wonder how many people have actually had their finger on a trigger ready to kill something. People don't understand what adrenaline will do to your brain and thought processes. Anyone that doesn't acknowledge that fact is an idiotic asshole. Even the LEOs who taught us how to handle weapons for the boarding team and the SSDF emphasized the role of adrenaline in a live-fire situation. I'm not a gun-nut and I'm a total amateur, and I know all that, everyone here should be talking about that FIRST, but they're not because they're not thinking about actual self-defense, I belive, IMHO, that they're thinking about stroking their cocks and looking at pretty pictures of pistols and sub-machine guns... KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

04-09-2005, 08:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
evilfij Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7755 Location: Main Line PA Posts: 1,955	I carry condition three on a glock [aka no round in chamber] It is natural for me to pull weapon and rack slide. I lose about .5 seconds doing this. Makes zero chance of an ND. Any safety can catch and come off and while the chance of a accidental discharge is low, I think it is significantly higher than the .5 seconds making a difference for me YMMV etc etc. etc. __________________ :evil:

04-09-2005, 08:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
zukanuba Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Member # 28861 Location: Armpit of America Posts: 229	decocker - ala SIG, drops the hammer, that's it "hammer drop safety" - ala beretta 92/M9, drops the hammer and puts the weapon "on-safe" requiring another action to put the weapon "on-kill".

04-09-2005, 10:07 PM	#20 (permalink)
evilfij Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7755 Location: Main Line PA Posts: 1,955	What you don't get is that if you do it all the time it becomes second nature. The gun never leaves the holster, and if it does it gets racked. If you are close enough where you don't have two hands free you are probably screwed anyway. You can also forget to take the safety off as well. It is not a matter of comfort or not. I am comfortable carrying condition 1, I just think the chance of an AD/ND exceeds the chance of that little bit of time mattering so I go condition 3. I mean in an ideal world I would have enough time to make it to the trunk and whatever hardware currently was residing there Like I said, YMMV, me and the israelis will take the trade off. PS If I lived in some shithole then I would probably carry condition 1, but where I live . . . __________________ :evil:

04-09-2005, 10:14 PM	#22 (permalink)
evilfij Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7755 Location: Main Line PA Posts: 1,955	Well, if you have a safety, as in a traditional safety not a glock safety or revolver without a safety, you can forget. __________________ :evil:

04-09-2005, 10:17 PM	#23 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	If I ever have to pull it, I want there to be no worries other than bringing it on target, knowing whats in the background, putting the finger on the trigger and squeezing. Thats enough of a decision I think __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

04-09-2005, 10:26 PM	#24 (permalink)
4runner please fix my runner Join Date: May 2000 Member # 946 Location: WTF TX USA Posts: 6,557	I even removed that little safety piece on the trigger of my glock, kept making my finger itch...much smoother now.. __________________ 4.3runner ---A golf course is a pointless exploitation of a perfectly good rifle range--- buy my ultra rare Omega III presentation rifle special price $42500.00

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