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Old 11-25-2006, 06:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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straight wall rifle cartridge questions

As the title states. What is the hot ticket? Which caliber and why do you say so...? Anyone have an idea as to which will shoot the flattest? I'd like 200 plus yard capibilitys... Good retained energy? Best all around caliber for whitetail deer sized game and the occasional coyote, some nice affordible range shooting ... You know a nice all round gun.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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45-70
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree, 7mm Ultra Mag is a great caliber for medium game.
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Old 11-25-2006, 08:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Straight wall as in:

45-70 in the Marlin lever.
450 Hornady
444 Marlin
50 Alaskan

These will do it for you. I think you are wanting a bottleneck cartridge though.

444 is flatter, but I would keep both these to 200 yards max. as they are not flat shooting like any bottleneck cartridge.

Want flatter and farther then step up to 300 wsm .308. 7mm08, 7mm wsm .270, 30-06.

Last edited by 5spd; 11-25-2006 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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X2 - .45-70 govt. I`ve taken 4 elk, clean one shot kills from a 14" barrel Contender pistol out to 250 yards. A 405 grain lead bullet at 1500 fps. is a freaking sledge hammer. Solid shoulder hits on elk absolutely drop them on their chin. Tried using it on deer with 350 gr. JHP, overkill is an understatement. Went back to my 7mm T/C U for deer.
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Old 11-25-2006, 11:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You might want to check out the .450 Marlin. Supposedly, it pushes a 350 gr. bullet out of the muzzle at around 2,000+ fps and more than 3,000 lbft of muzzle energy. That beats the hell out of a .444 Marlin.

I've never fired the .450 Marlin but a friend tells me that it talks to his shoulder a helluva louder than a .444 Marlin.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I'd love a necked cartridge, BUT the state of Indiana is way to overpopulated to let a bunch of rednecks loose during hunting season with one... Ok, so that leave's us with straight walls....(they are chaning the regulations to allow straight walls next season...) The best of them being the .450? or the .444 and they are 200 yard calibers? I looked at the 45-70 but, I'm trying to get a little more yardage, i have plenty of knock down with a 12 guage 3 " mag sabot load. 2 " high at 50 yards lets me go 4" low at 100 then like 8" at 150 and after that it falls on its face.....
I dont reload and would have to buy ammo so availibility is a must. I'll hit the web after I post this...... Now who chambers a nice bolt action or semi auto in them?
thanks for the help.
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Outside of y'all are talking about bullets, sorta, I have no clue what this thread is about.
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Old 11-28-2006, 04:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procomp survivor
I looked at the 45-70 but, I'm trying to get a little more yardage,
I have shot and hit 12" targets (paper plates) at 400yds with my Rem rolling block 45-70. 400gr lead round nose over black powder. Usually can get 5 shots into 6"
Yeah I have a Pederasoli(sp) peep sight.
You can always get a 45-110 Quigly gun and do some 1200yd shots
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i have heard some good things about carbines chamberd in the S&W 500mag.

But i still want a 45-70gov

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Old 11-28-2006, 06:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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45-70 is a fun round. The brass is pretty thin, so if you are loading with modern powders (shooting out of modern guns), you will not get to many loads out of the brass. Inspect your brass well.

Your experiences may vary depending on the loads and guns you use.
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rockcrusher
You might want to check out the .450 Marlin. Supposedly, it pushes a 350 gr. bullet out of the muzzle at around 2,000+ fps and more than 3,000 lbft of muzzle energy. That beats the hell out of a .444 Marlin.

I've never fired the .450 Marlin but a friend tells me that it talks to his shoulder a helluva louder than a .444 Marlin.
The .450 marlin is what the .45-70 could be. Most factory .45-70 ammo is loaded under 28,000 CUP in case it's used in older guns. In modern rifles like the 1895, handloads can be pushed upwards of 40,000 CUP. At these velocities, the .45-70 equals .450 Marlin ballistics and exceeds anything a .444 can do. In a mauser action or a Ruger #1, handloads can push upwards of 50,000 CUP, which makes them even hotter.

To add for the original poster, .45-70 has more bullet variety available than most straight wall rifle cartriges and can carry the magic 1000 ft. lbs. of energy out past 500 yds. And ammo is more widely available than the other rounds mentioned. In my opinion, It's a winner and would fit your bill.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:35 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd say you want a .700 Nitro Express. It oughta put that 1000 grain bullet out there pretty well for you.

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Old 11-29-2006, 04:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloharover
You can always get a 45-110 Quigly gun and do some 1200yd shots
I was thinking the same thing but that would kind of defeat the purpose of the straight wall cartridges not carrying very far.

Was it a 45-110 or a 45-120? I love that gun.
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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45-70 is about the only thing that you will easily find brass or round for.
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by procomp survivor
I looked at the 45-70 but, I'm trying to get a little more yardage,thanks for the help.
Sean
45-70 has plenty of range.
We have a Billy Dixon shoot over in Eastern Oregon where BP Cart are used.
If you think the 45-70 is underpowered,you may want to reconcider.


It was June 27, 1874 at Adobe Walls on the Canadian River in the Texas panhandle. Young Billy Dixon and 27 buffalo hunters were surrounded by more than 500 Kiowa and Comanche warriors. The Kiowa medicine man told the warriors that his medicine made them invisible to the bullets of the white-eyes. When Dixon fired his Sharps sporting rifle and knocked a Kiowa from his horse at 1538 yards (7/8 mile) the Indians departed with haste. The Kiowa medicine man was quirted to death. The shot was later measured by a Government surveyor working in the area. Billy Dixon lived on to be awarded the Medal of Honor while acting as a scout in the Army for Gen. Nelson Miles. Later in life he served as a peace officer in the Texas panhandle, near the place that made him famous.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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dad has a .444 Marlin. Always wanted to shoot a home-invasion creep in the chest with that bad boy. Talk about "stopping power". Yikes.

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Old 11-29-2006, 11:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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My vote would be for a .50 Beowulf upper on an AR-15
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_scout
45-70 has plenty of range.
We have a Billy Dixon shoot over in Eastern Oregon where BP Cart are used.
If you think the 45-70 is underpowered,you may want to reconcider.


It was June 27, 1874 at Adobe Walls on the Canadian River in the Texas panhandle. Young Billy Dixon and 27 buffalo hunters were surrounded by more than 500 Kiowa and Comanche warriors. The Kiowa medicine man told the warriors that his medicine made them invisible to the bullets of the white-eyes. When Dixon fired his Sharps sporting rifle and knocked a Kiowa from his horse at 1538 yards (7/8 mile) the Indians departed with haste. The Kiowa medicine man was quirted to death. The shot was later measured by a Government surveyor working in the area. Billy Dixon lived on to be awarded the Medal of Honor while acting as a scout in the Army for Gen. Nelson Miles. Later in life he served as a peace officer in the Texas panhandle, near the place that made him famous.
The gun was a Sharps Big Fifty . . . More than likely a .50-90
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Old 11-30-2006, 08:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The gun was a Sharps Big Fifty . . . More than likely a .50-90
Not to start a pissin contest or anything but I was kinda curious about this and did some diggin. I only looked for .45 and .50 cal stuff cause there's too much data to dig through and I wasn't quite that curious. Seems the only long .45 and .50 cal stuff that was available in 1874 were .45-70 govt(1873), .45-70 Van Choate, and .50-70 musket or govt. There were assloads of various carbine rounds in these calibers but they weren't likely to make this shot. The big Sharps stuff wasn't available till about 1876. The .45-70 was by far the most commonly avaiable big bore of the period due to the avaiability of the rifles and ammo, so this was most likely the round that was used for the shot.
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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45-70 factory ammo is plenty weak due to the old trapdoor springfields still floating around
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:25 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I agree, 7mm Ultra Mag is a great caliber for medium game.
WTF are you talking about?
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Old 01-20-2007, 01:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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the .450 marlin is becomming extinct pretty quick, its hard to get a hold of and when you find it, its expensive. The .45-70 however is the oldest centerfire cartridge still in production. The .22 short is the longest lived rimfire still in production. I doubt you'll be seeing them go away.
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Old 01-20-2007, 01:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Are you opposed to reloading its quick and easy. And the cost of rounds are far less ie my 338 win mag rounds cost 3.45 a round bought and loaded runs me about 1 buck
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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338 is a necked cartridge so nogo there.

.45-70 is a great round, but does have it's issues. Your best bet is going to be reloading.

Though there is a .454 casull levergun that I've had my eyes on for a while now.....

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