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Old 12-06-2008, 12:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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80% AR Receiver

Since I missed the boat and didn't stock up on receivers before the election, and current stock is either unavailable or outrageously expensive, I'm thinking about trying the 80% receiver route.

2 receivers will run $250 http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...e=1&//l2726324
And a jig will run another $100 http://www.cncguns.com/tooling.html

I have another blank forging already, so provided I don't fuck anything up, for $350 and a bit of work I should end up with 3 finished receivers.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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if you are a machinest go for it.. But for me I would take my chances and wait for the price to drop some here in a few months.. Or bite the bullet so to say and get one already done for $225.. Found alot recently on calguns even for that price
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I would rather buy an 80% with the FCG well machined out. Sure you'd have to drill and tap the extension tube and buy the tap...but when you're done, you can sell the tap. Of course, I'm not a machinist and I don't think paying someone to perform the work is legally advisable or economical.
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well the new 80%'s are all solid fcg's. I guess after the KT ordnance deal, people who do 80%'s re-did there loa's and atf said the fcg can't be touched.

Its a trade off sort of. No buffer to tap. But you need a mill. theirs a few guys who have done it on a HF mini-mill though.
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well the new 80%'s are all solid fcg's. I guess after the KT ordnance deal, people who do 80%'s re-did there loa's and atf said the fcg can't be touched.

Its a trade off sort of. No buffer to tap. But you need a mill. theirs a few guys who have done it on a HF mini-mill though.
I didn't know about the new 80% standards specifically relating to AR receivers. I guess one could always buy a HF mill and then sell that too...
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My dad has a mill that I can use. CNCguns also has a milling adapter that lets you use a drill press to finish the fcg.
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a mill, and I'm dong one right now. I don't see any way to do it with accuracy on a drill press. But that's speaking from a machinist point of view.

$250 for two forgings is ludicrous, shop around, they can be had for WAAAYYY less than that.
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I would just wait until the craze is over. Order one from pete and wait. You'll be fine.
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I didn't know about the new 80% standards specifically relating to AR receivers. I guess one could always buy a HF mill and then sell that too...
Once you have one, you'll find more and more uses for it, until you can't handle what you want to do, and you'll have to buy a bigger machine, and...



Personally, I'd rather have to mill out an FCG pocket than deal with the buffer tower. The FCG pocket is a clearance operation, not a precision one--the worst screwup you can do it it is to mill out the side, but most of the typical minor screwups, don't even matter.

Use a 1/2" end mill to cut the slot at the takedown pin (if your 80% needs that; some don't) and just mill back to the front edge of the buffer hole, at .65 down from the FCG deck.

Swap to a 7/16 end mill, run it to the left side of the takedown pin slot, and to a depth of 1.25 down from the FCG deck. Run it towards the pivot pin to... oh... about the front of the FCG well. Don't go too far, but if you stop a little shy, it's OK.

While still using the 7/16 end mill at the depth of 1.25, mill the box for the trigger and hammer. It's .69 wide, not sure how long (I've got CNC, and I wrote that portion of code long ago, and not for a 7/16 end mill, so my numbers there aren't useful) but just mill it out into a rectangle from just forward of the selector, to just rearward of the bolt catch.

Punch through the floor with a 5/16 end mill, move it a little bit (again, can't remember how far, but it's on the CNCGuns model) to make the trigger hole, and you're done.

$250 for two raw forgings would be insane; $250 for two 80% lowers, isn't a bad deal. There's a ton of machine work that you're getting for $100 apiece there (the raw forgings themselves are $25 apiece, IIRC).

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Old 12-06-2008, 02:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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OK, I just looked at the link you posted. I see why he's asking more for those, Scott is right, compared to the forging I have, that one has quite a lot of work done. I'm not sure that qualifies as an 80%, but I would assume he has approval from ATF to market them as such.

Also as Scott mentioned, the forgings are more like $25 but have a significant amount of machining left to do.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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$250 for two forgings is ludicrous, shop around, they can be had for WAAAYYY less than that.
x2
If I'm not mistaken you can get double star stripped lowers for about 115 each and have to do nothing but install shit in it.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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x2
If I'm not mistaken you can get double star stripped lowers for about 115 each and have to do nothing but install shit in it.
If you can find them, which as I'm hearing, is tough with the gun panic buying going on lately.

Machining a lower (whether from an 80%, a 10%, a raw forging, billet, or whatever) is rarely to never economically worthwhile when production stuff is available. If you're doing it to save money, you're fooling yourself by spending more, in four different places, than you could've spent in one place to buy the finished product.

If you're doing it to make stuff, because you like to make stuff (this is me, FWIW) or the like, cool; I don't care what it costs me to make a billet lower, because I have fun doing it. I can rationalize all day that I made one out of a $30 block of aluminum, but the fact is, I did so using hundreds, if not thousands, worth of computers and software, plus a couple-thousand worth of milling machine, several hundred worth of machining tools, and several hundred worth of shop time (if billed at normal rates). But most of that, I already have anyway, it's just being... umm... misappropriated... after hours.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have a mill, and I'm dong one right now. I don't see any way to do it with accuracy on a drill press. But that's speaking from a machinist point of view.

$250 for two forgings is ludicrous, shop around, they can be had for WAAAYYY less than that.
While 120 is expensive for what it is, the mag well is edm'd out Vs a solid forging which can be had for like 25 or 30 dollars
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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yah this is new
http://www.cncguns.com/projects/ar15...utorial-2.html
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Old 12-06-2008, 08:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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with an 80% is there any registration? If not I could see paying more so nobody knows you have it. otherwise I don't get it
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Old 12-06-2008, 08:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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with an 80% is there any registration? If not I could see paying more so nobody knows you have it. otherwise I don't get it
Not currently.....
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Old 12-06-2008, 08:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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with an 80% is there any registration? If not I could see paying more so nobody knows you have it. otherwise I don't get it
If you are required to register your guns in your state, then a homebuild would be no different; you'd have to register it when you built it. If your state doesn't have registration then no, there'd be no registration.

If your state requires gun registration and you finish out an 80% to circumvent the law, there's a good chance it's a felony, so it's a pretty risky idea to do that "so nobody knows you have it."

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Old 12-07-2008, 11:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Washington doesn't require firearms to be registered unless you buy from a gun store. Part of the appeal for doing an 80% receiver is good ol' uncle sam not having any record that I own it.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:30 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Washington doesn't require firearms to be registered unless you buy from a gun store. Part of the appeal for doing an 80% receiver is good ol' uncle sam not having any record that I own it.
Just to nitpick, but (according to the law and the ATF) filling out a 4473 is not registration. It's a background check formality. Supposedly, there is no database of that info. NFA goodies do have a registration well beyond the 4473, usually involving a Form 1 or a Form 4.

Some states, however, do have actual registration (Hawaii, California, New York, come to mind) of some classes or types of firearms. If you purchase a firearm in one of those classes or types, you are required to register it (if I were to move to California, I'd have to make a trip to the local PD to register some of what I'd bring with, and I'd have to sell much of what I now own, prior to moving into Cali) regardless of whether the sale involved a 4473, under penalty of law.

Conversely, states like Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, don't have registration, and (I believe) in Wyoming and Montana, if you have their CCW, don't even have to actually perform a background check, they'll just have you fill out the 4473, they'll file it, and you're on your way. Colorado doesn't recognize their own CCW as a background check, so they have to call it in every time anyway.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yeah a gun store owner kinda explained the registration versus background check thing to me yesterday. In theory Uncle Sam doesn't know about my AR, unless it is ever used in a crime. Only me, the gun seller, and maybe the guy who did the background check (if they keep records) know I have it. And now whoever reads PBB. If the gun ser. # ever came into question it's at that point that it would be traced to the gun store and then to me if i understand correctly.

In response to the other registration comment, if I build one "off the books" how is it a felony if nobody knows I have it? I know it's "not legal" but really how is it different than buying one from Joe Blow down the street that nobody knew I bought? I have no intent of commiting a crime but I'd prefer that the government stay the hell out of my personal life unless I give them reason to do otherwise.

EDIT: I see now. NC isn't a registration state so building one with no ser. # isn't really "illegal". Or maybe it is since no background check would be done. Not sure how that works. I just distrust the idea that one day if they decided to they could see who has guns and what kinds and how many. At this point only the gun seller has records but what if they make a law to change that? I can only hope that lots of gun store file cabinets mysteriously catch on fire.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Conversely, states like Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, don't have registration, and (I believe) in Wyoming and Montana, if you have their CCW, don't even have to actually perform a background check...
NC is also like this. I learned that yesterday too. I guess I need a CCW so I can buy whatever I want and a slightly smaller paper trail.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Its not illegal. If you live in some tardastic state maybe. But the rest of the free states, its all LEGAL. Same as building an AK basically.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Its not illegal. If you live in some tardastic state maybe. But the rest of the free states, its all LEGAL. Same as building an AK basically.
even here in calif it's ok
no need to serial # it or tell anyone
just can not ever sell it , can only be made for own use
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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In responce to Scott, if I build one "off the books" how is it a felony if nobody knows I have it? I know it's not legal but really how is it different than buying one from Joe Blow down the street that nobody knew I bought? I have no intent of commiting a crime but I'd prefer that the government stay the hell out of my personal life unless I give them reason to do otherwise.
It is not illegal to build your own guns for yourself.

It is also not illegal to have your own self-built guns with no serial numbers.

It is recommended that you number or otherwise distinguishingly-mark your self-built guns for identification, just in case they end up in somebody else's hands, so that they might be returned to you.

It is not illegal to buy a gun for cash without a background check (in most states) or any other paperwork, but it is illegal for a dealer to sell a gun without the appropriate paperwork. The paperwork is for the dealer, not for the buyer (if it was for the buyer, you'd walk out of the gun store with it).

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