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Old 01-13-2009, 07:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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sbr vs pistol

what are the legal differences? i see "pistols" in rifle calibers and rifles in "pistol" calibers...

does it all boil down to have a stock or not?

if so, if you make a rifle that cannot accept a stock, is it then a pistol?
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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basically... yes... if a pistol has a stock, its a SBR. And I believe if a pistol has a forward grip its an AOW
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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so, if i take a vz 58 and mill the mounts off for the factory stock and weld up any holes in the back, i should (in therory) not have to extend the barrel out to the legal 16" required for a rifle?
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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so, if i take a vz 58 and mill the mounts off for the factory stock and weld up any holes in the back, i should (in therory) not have to extend the barrel out to the legal 16" required for a rifle?
Correct, if you make it so that there is no way to attach a stock, and as long as it doesn't have a foregrip (VZ's don't stock), it's a pistol, and no tax stamp is necessary. A foregrip makes it an AOW, which requires a $200 tax stamp to build or a $5 stamp to transfer. A stock makes it an SBR, $200 to build, $200 to transfer.

Additionally, 922r does not apply to pistols, only rifles, so you don't need compliance parts, either. I think I remember hearing that 922r also does not apply to NFA stuff--IIRC, it was in the context of "compliance parts were more expensive than a tax stamp, so I SBR'd my...." Double check that before taking it as gospel, though.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Correct, 922r does not apply to NFA items. Also, there are many pistols that could be fittted with a foregrip easily (threaded in, change foregrip, etc). For instance, AR pistols could easily have a stock added, but as long as there is no stock on it you're good to go.

You can add a foregrip and AOW or SBR your pistol. However, if it's a AOW you cannot add a stock.

Laws are confusing, and they generally don't make sense!
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The real question is: why go through the effort of milling and welding on a receiver, when you can just as easily weld on a muzzle brake to get you to the legal length?


Seems like a lot of work for not a lot gained.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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i was just using the vz as an example....(mostly because it is sitting in front of me).... i saw the ak pistol in a thread on here a few weeks ago, and it got me thinking about a small weapon that shoots rifle rounds....
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Scott and Jason have provided the correct info regarding SBR, AOW, and (22r.

FWIW if you live in a state that allows an SBR, it really is worth it. I am really starting to think that everyone should register at least on AR lower as an SBR.
You can put any upper you want onto the registered lower. i just feel that it's really worth it.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Scott and Jason have provided the correct info regarding SBR, AOW, and (22r.

FWIW if you live in a state that allows an SBR, it really is worth it. I am really starting to think that everyone should register at least on AR lower as an SBR.
You can put any upper you want onto the registered lower. i just feel that it's really worth it.
I agree.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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so, if i take a vz 58 and mill the mounts off for the factory stock and weld up any holes in the back, i should (in therory) not have to extend the barrel out to the legal 16" required for a rifle?

Depends on how your receiver was sold. If it was logged as a "rifle" you're hosed. If it was logged as a "bare receiver" or "pistol" you can get away with it, but I'd document the build...


Once a rifle, always a rifle.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aloharover View Post
Scott and Jason have provided the correct info regarding SBR, AOW, and (22r.

FWIW if you live in a state that allows an SBR, it really is worth it. I am really starting to think that everyone should register at least on AR lower as an SBR.
You can put any upper you want onto the registered lower. i just feel that it's really worth it.
But is there an additional tax for a suppressor once you've done the SBR? Paperwork I'm assuming to be yes as there are other forms.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Depends on how your receiver was sold. If it was logged as a "rifle" you're hosed. If it was logged as a "bare receiver" or "pistol" you can get away with it, but I'd document the build...


Once a rifle, always a rifle.

what do you mean by document it..

in order to register a SBR, do you just get a form from the ATF, fill it out and send it back with some money or what?
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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But is there an additional tax for a suppressor once you've done the SBR? Paperwork I'm assuming to be yes as there are other forms.
yes
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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what do you mean by document it..

in order to register a SBR, do you just get a form from the ATF, fill it out and send it back with some money or what?
By documenting it, he probably just means have proof that it was never assembled as a rifle first, then as a pistol. This would be considered an SBR.
If you are going to register it as an SBR anyway, it wouldn't matter.

Here is an ATF letter concerning building a pistol from an AR receiver.

http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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FWIW if you live in a state that allows an SBR, it really is worth it. I am really starting to think that everyone should register at least on AR lower as an SBR.
You can put any upper you want onto the registered lower. i just feel that it's really worth it.
I agree with Pete 100%. If I lived in a state that allows SBRs (yet another reason I want to leave Michigan), I would honestly consider registering all 3 of my AR lowers as SBR.

Hell, I'd consider registering my FAL receiver as one, too.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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FWIW if you live in a state that allows an SBR, it really is worth it.

Yes. I'll be registering my AR lower and Saiga 12 as SBRs as soon as I can afford to. I also just mailed off a form 1 for a .22 suppressor and a form 4 for my YHM .308 suppressor
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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a shortened saiga 12 would be a SBR and not a AOW?
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It would be an SBS.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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in order for it to be an AOW, it has to have NEVER had a buttstock attached to it at all. And AOW=$5 transfer rather than $200.
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