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Old 01-13-2010, 05:07 PM   #101 (permalink)
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...laser cut out of sheet and bent...
The problem would be doing all those bends accurately and having it fit tightly in a tube. It is hard to do bends accurately and the stack up of tolerances would be huge.

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i bet that would work very good.
Thanks...I impressed myself with that idea Hopefully it isn't patented.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:11 PM   #102 (permalink)
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that is what i was trying to do with the NNNN.

like this but laser cut out of sheet and bent (i don't have the cad skills to draw that):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

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Ok...How about this? Would a flat disc without a bend in it be considered a "suppressor part"? This is 12 parts.


That look like this.
I really like this one. Laser cut baffles in volume would be cheap; laser cut parts in general get cheaper by buying lots of the same thing, and most laser shops like working in quantities of hundreds. This could also (theoretically) be assembled into a baffle stack that is removable (as a unit) from the can for cleaning (something I like) or could be welded fully together in a welded can never to be disassembled again, but still reasonably cleanable.

I don't know if those baffles, flat, would be a "suppressor part". Arguably, they would be, as they have no other purpose in life, but in unbent form, they're not even useful as that, so it'd be tough to say. On the one hand, I'm sure I could get my laser vendor to cut them no questions asked, but I'm also confident that if I told them I had to take any scrap/mistakes/etc. with, they'd start asking questions. They'd make a pretty wicked paper shredder if you built two spindles of them intermeshed and alternating, though.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:14 PM   #103 (permalink)
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A dedicated jig for bending those baffles accurately doesnt seem like it would be too hard to make.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:16 PM   #104 (permalink)
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The other option would be to have some dies cut (maybe even laser cut would work) to stamp these things out with an ironworker or the like. You could then do them in your own shop.

It might not be a bad idea to stack them all on a shaft and weld them to keep them from rattling around.

There is also the problem of the slight bulge that isn't/can't be modeled where the bend is. That would cause a problem with the bend on the path of the bullet. It would take either a few tries with different size reliefs or need to be reamed and sanded down.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:31 PM   #105 (permalink)
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...I don't know if those baffles, flat, would be a "suppressor part". Arguably, they would be, as they have no other purpose in life, but in unbent form, they're not even useful as that, so it'd be tough to say...
Just think of it as an 80% suppressor part
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:36 PM   #106 (permalink)
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It might not be a bad idea to stack them all on a shaft and weld them to keep them from rattling around.

There is also the problem of the slight bulge that isn't/can't be modeled where the bend is. That would cause a problem with the bend on the path of the bullet. It would take either a few tries with different size reliefs or need to be reamed and sanded down.
Hmm... assemble, then run a chucking reamer through the whole thing?
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:41 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I think that is what it would take. As a bonus you could make them in just a few sizes and ream for the proper bullet diameter. However a reamed hole would have a knife edge that might be more likely to burn off. So what common, bendable, heat resistant, stainless, sheet stock would you use for these?
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:54 PM   #108 (permalink)
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I think I like the modular approach because you could use more and make a longer suppressor.
This is your grey and black area

on your tax stamp you list how long the suppressor is, thats a done deal, no making it longer.

And each baffle is a suppressor by BATFE rules, so if you have any "spare" baffles (in a bent baffle form or looking like a baffle) you now have an un-registered suppressor.


And I think your stacked V shaped ones would work best.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:03 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I was thinking more of as a manufacturer. You are already going to have different parts for different calibers and rifle vs pistol. This way you would have less part numbers sent to the laser cutter and be able to sell many different lengths just by stacking more.

For example maybe you wanted to sell a .22 suppressor in a rimfire size and a .223 Rem size. The can could be the only different part number and just make the centerfire version with more baffles. If the unbent parts could be certified "80%" you might even be able to sell stacks of them to DIY guys.

None of this really matters for be because I live behind the iron curtain. I'm just trying to live vicariously through you guys in free states.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:46 PM   #110 (permalink)
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One more for now. This one is 8 pieces all "C" shaped with just enough of a slot to interlock. Assemble "X"s, stack rotating 90° after each assembly. The downside is the parts are complete when they come out of the laser so no "80%" exemption possible. These would need to be at least tack welded together.

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Old 01-13-2010, 07:00 PM   #111 (permalink)
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you had better cut them out really true.
when you angle something into another plane(not anairplane) you are now needing a new "face" to fit inside teh cylinder(tube) properly.

I made some washer stacks...made a special jig to hold them at a 45* angle while I turned them on a lathe to get them to seat properly inside a cylinder, still had to mill slots in each edge and weld them together to maintain placement, a royal pita. sound was nice, but WAY too much work, would have to charge $600-700 per unit to make it work the labor involved.

even though I have made and used many different baffle designs, I am a true believer in "K" baffles...they are relatively easy to machine, stack up easily, stay straight, and work extremely well.



ALSO...the straight hole that was there when you made it, it is no longer in straight once bent and would no longer be the right size either.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:08 PM   #112 (permalink)
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to a point. and that point is NOT something to fuck with.

It can be done but has to be VERY thought out and planned so you are not fucking yourself or someone else.

The products if you have made if any can NOT silence the weapon in any way or that machinist is making a suppressor. And even baffle/baffle stacks if made by someone other than you is STILL a baffle/baffle stack and CAN be considered a suppressor even if the machinist has no clue what they are making.
So, if I was to do the proper paperwork, and made a suppressor, and was not happy with the result of my baffles, could I keep the outer can (serialized), and make new baffles, as long as i destroyed the old setup?

This has become plain curiosity now, as I don't have the skills or shop access to build my own (nor am I willing to put any of my machinist contacts at risk), so I will be purchasing for now.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:31 PM   #113 (permalink)
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So, if I was to do the proper paperwork, and made a suppressor, and was not happy with the result of my baffles, could I keep the outer can (serialized), and make new baffles, as long as i destroyed the old setup?
yes.

BEFORE you make the new baffle stack you can't have 2 stacks existing at the same time.

I am on my 3rd stack design.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:24 PM   #114 (permalink)
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yes.

BEFORE you make the new baffle stack you can't have 2 stacks existing at the same time.

I am on my 3rd stack design.
Sort of. ATF has, I believe, said before that a Form 1 isn't a license to experiment, it's an authorization to build one.

The maker (on a Form 1) or a licensed manufacturer may repair a faulty/defective/damaged suppressor, but simply replacing baffles because you weren't happy with it, is getting pretty gray. If the repair results in cutting the can shorter, provided the numbered location isn't obliterated, so be it, but if the repair results in the destruction of the serial numbered part, a new Form 1 should be filed and a new suppressor is being made. Obviously, if you're the maker, the owner, and the sole authority on what "defective" is, your judgement is pretty much the word on whether it's defective.

Regardless, unless you have an SOT, you can't have more baffles than fit in the tax-stamped suppressors you have. So if you have a defective suppressor that you are repairing, you should destroy the old baffles prior to making replacements, and likewise, if you inadvertently make a defective baffle, you should destroy it before continuing to make more baffles (bearing in mind that a less than ideal baffle is still a baffle).

I was assuming that the discussion of making Triaged's various baffle designs was based on them being made by an SOT; making them in quantity under a Form 1 would be legally questionable at best, and probably illegal.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:02 AM   #115 (permalink)
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And each baffle is a suppressor by BATFE rules, so if you have any "spare" baffles (in a bent baffle form or looking like a baffle) you now have an un-registered suppressor.

Wait, so if I develop a supressor design that uses flat washers in it for baffles, then all the other similar washers in my garage are un-registered suppressors?

Duct tape and a plastic pop bottle can make an illegal suppressor but you can't get in trouble for possessing duct tape and a pop bottle.

I'm easily confused.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:12 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Wait, so if I develop a supressor design that uses flat washers in it for baffles, then all the other similar washers in my garage are un-registered suppressors?

Duct tape and a plastic pop bottle can make an illegal suppressor but you can't get in trouble for possessing duct tape and a pop bottle.

I'm easily confused.
All of which is pieces of why IMO suppressors should be unregulated, but the law is still the law even when it's dumb.

IIRC, ATF's answer to the washer thing is that the washers are still washers until you put them in a can. They have regular, non-suppressor uses, and unless you're planning on using them for baffles, they're just washers. Much like the "constructive intent" of having a receiver that can accept machine gun parts and the machine gun parts themselves--the parts can't really be used for anything else, so they can reasonably claim that you intended to use them for that.

A reasonable person would assume (unless you demonstrated otherwise) that you intended to recycle the pop bottle but hadn't gotten to it yet, and had leftover tape from repairing a duct. Same deal with the washers, you probably bought a box for a job that needed half a box, and had leftover washers that you hadn't come up with a use for yet. If the sole requirement is that somebody could come up with a way to make parts you have, useful in a machine gun or a silencer, half the machine shops in the country would be getting raided and their owners and employees jailed.

Relatedly, I believe some years ago, a threaded part that has muzzle threads on one side, and pop bottle threads on the other side, was ruled to "be" the part subject to tax and registration in a pop bottle suppressor assembly. It's really tempting to make one on an SOT just to see how effective it is, but silly at the same time, as even if the part sold for $10, would you pay $210 for it ($200 transfer tax + $10 for it) ?

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Old 01-14-2010, 06:37 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Ok...How about this? Would a flat disc without a bend in it be considered a "suppressor part"? This is 12 parts.


That look like this.
I like this idea but would slightly modify it to include two bends separated by a flat. Think \_/ instead of \/. This way the bullet always passes through the baffles at a 90 degree angle. Just basing this on the firearms I own, all of which have a flat or recessed crown on the muzzle.

Just my $0.02.

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Old 01-14-2010, 07:41 PM   #118 (permalink)
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You could make them \_/ but there would be no way to keep them from rotating. They would all have to be welded together. It might also take custom tooling to make the bends rather than just a press break. The baffles would also be closer together so it would take more of them. I think if you wanted to go that way drilling holes in freeze plugs would be a better way to go...but what the hell do I know.
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:03 PM   #119 (permalink)
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any word on the baffle strikes?
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:23 PM   #120 (permalink)
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So what common, bendable, heat resistant, stainless, sheet stock would you use for these?
409 seems to be a good choice, although if I was going to build one of these I would have the hard coated, nitride coated or similar.
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:48 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Wait, so if I develop a supressor design that uses flat washers in it for baffles, then all the other similar washers in my garage are un-registered suppressors?

Duct tape and a plastic pop bottle can make an illegal suppressor but you can't get in trouble for possessing duct tape and a pop bottle.

I'm easily confused.
That's because you are trying to make sense of the ATF interpretations of NFA law.

Unfortunately, logic does not apply. You simply have to accept that "that's the way it is" and anything else is playing with fire.

It's not right... it's not fair... and honestly, I believe it has stifled small arms development in this country. But it's their sandbox, and they make the rules.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #122 (permalink)
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if you could get a .308 cal suppressor made with SS body(front and rear end caps) and alloy "K" baffles for $300.00 would you buy it?

removeable end caps and 1/2X28 threads.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:40 PM   #123 (permalink)
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yes, but 9/16 threads are more common for 30 cal
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:27 PM   #124 (permalink)
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9/16x24?


what would you consider the optimum length?


I think he said he was aiming at 9-10 inches OAL...
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:52 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I would be interested in the .30 cal suppressor for that price.

How heavy are these things?
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