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Old 02-11-2010, 07:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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5.56 Wound Pictures With Captions.

This is probably a repost because its that damn good. This is pictures and comments from the surgeon on a wound from an AR-15. Very informative about .223 wounds and rifle wounds in general. I only read the first page of posts but I was amazed.

35%: http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=17111.0
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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yup... thats why i scoff at people when they say that a 5.7x28 round is just as powerful as a .22...

velocity is a hell of a drug...
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I sure don't have any desire to get on the wrong end of one. Despite the nay sayers they can be a decent deer round too.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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17 hmr ballistic tip hornady point blank range to the calf of the leg. 17 grain bullet can do some serious damage.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Looks explosive, even.

What was the velocity of that .17 hmr on impact? Rifle, or pistol? Just curious.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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One of the times we tried fun targets we got a block of ice.

Shot it with the .45, and it took a chunk off the side.
Shot it with the .357 mag, and it snowed.

High velocity can do wonders to your energy/foot pounds.

Now show me a wound from a .300 Remington Ultra Mag, because I've never seen one...
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Looks explosive, even.

What was the velocity of that .17 hmr on impact? Rifle, or pistol? Just curious.
that was at the hospital cleaned up a bit. it was a rifle with a velocity of 2550 FPS at muzzle (according to the Hornady Box). bullet fragmented on impact as it was designed and sent fragments every where into the flesh. to this day my friend has a baseball size reminder on his leg, and keeps a watch full eye on his old lady when she is behind the gun.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I wonder what that wound had looked like had it not hit the bone. I would imagine it would have been a lot less destructive, but thats just a guess. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

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Old 02-11-2010, 11:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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if it was a fmj and it was only in soft tissue i would imagine the results would have been drastically different.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I wonder what that wound had looked like had it not hit the bone. I would imagine it would have been a lot less destructive, but thats just a guess. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

Chris
According to the surgeon that posted in the thread, the bullet did not hit the bone. The shockwave is what destroyed the bone.
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Entrance wound is on the inner thigh, exit is the huge stellate laceration seen on the outer thigh. Based on the xray view of the femur bone, bone was NOT hit, but broke most probably due to the temporary stretch cavity created by the considerable hydraulic shock wave the M193 cartridge is known to create.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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is that round a soft point or a hollow point?
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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is that round a soft point or a hollow point?
depends....

usually they have a very small hollow tip for aerodynamics or some shit like that
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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depends....

usually they have a very small hollow tip for aerodynamics or some shit like that
Really dont make a lot of diff as the FMJ ones will blow up and make a mess too. But its still the stone age and everyone thinks a 7.62x51 makes a bigger hole.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:50 AM   #14 (permalink)
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depends....

usually they have a very small hollow tip for aerodynamics or some shit like that
From the article it was an M193 round and from armystudyguide.com
"Cartridge, 5.56-mm, Ball, M193. The M193 cartridge is a center-fire cartridge with a 55-grain, gilded metal-jacketed, lead alloy core bullet. The M193 round is the standard cartridge for field use with the M16A1 rifle and has no identifying marks."

They are not hollow points and 99% or more of what you will find in the military service is FMJ. Snipers are allowed to use "hollow point" bullets only because the formation of the hollow point is a byproduct of the production of the bullet when they wrap the jacket around the core, which makes for a more consistent, and thus accurate bullet.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Really dont make a lot of diff as the FMJ ones will blow up and make a mess too. But its still the stone age and everyone thinks a 7.62x51 makes a bigger hole.
The distance on that shot was less than 20 yards and by all accounts the bullet was traveling in excess of 3000fps. Care to posit what a .308 round would do to flesh under the same conditions? I'm reminded of the old hot rodder adage "there's no replacement for displacement". Methinks that crosses many topics.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:07 AM   #16 (permalink)
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yup... thats why i scoff at people when they say that a 5.7x28 round is just as powerful as a .22...

velocity is a hell of a drug...
Agreed it is not....but those people need to understand that its not meant for the same purpose as a .223 round. They can read on FN's website and have it cleared up for them....that being said the 5.7 is still nothing to sneeze at.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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It's that old "F=MA" equation, I beleive

Aloha and I (and others) were shooting last summer with some damp sand as a backstop.

I hadn't noticed this before, but it was obvious that the pistol rounds impacted the sand and simply burrowed in.

The rifle rounds (there were 5.56, 5.45 and .30-06 present) caused a good sized cloud of water vapor to puff out of the sand....presumably due to the additional energy deposited.

Yeah, I'm a geek...but I found it interesting...
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
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could of been a MK262 MOD1 77gr. just a thought....how would a Doc know what he is shot with....just curious...
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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could of been a MK262 MOD1 77gr. just a thought....how would a Doc know what he is shot with....just curious...
From the article "According to victim, drunk cop shot him after altercation. According to cop, accident daw." it sounds like they knew what the officer was carrying.

I won't get into 5.56 vs 7.62 debate, but I will say this, that wound was created a very short distance from the muzzle. I hope no one has images of doing that to zombies at 500M.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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That is very interesting to see. I'm a little suspicious that the bullet didn't actually hit the bone, though. I thought that people had problems with bullets passing "through and through" on game animals and not dropping the animal. Though, perhaps the bullet's fragmentation was a result of the hydrostatic shock and led it to fully impart its energy into the flesh.

The problem with any discussion about calibers, ballistics, etc is that there are too many variables for any comparison in situations.

If I had to shoot someone dead I'd prefer to have an M2 Browning, however there are some situations where a .22 short will kill them equally dead.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I have shot a lot of fruit, steel, boxes and other things that explode with a .223 at ranges varying out to 600 yards. .223 will do that kind of damage a long way out. Farthest fruit I have shot was a large pineapple at 450 yards and it exploded under a 77gr SMK.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Velocity

Just a point of clarification to one of the above posts F=MA. All the energy tables and equations I am familiar with regarding firearms terminal ballistics use velocity square. Hence, a lot more drug than mere "V".

Hey Chris !! Welcome back.

My brother took a .223 round. Luckiest SOB alive. It grazed his forearm. Left a brand, looked like a rod laid across his skin. Seven others not so lucky. .223 is nothing to fuck around with.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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What's wrong with that picture?
1) It's taken in a 3rd world country hospital - not a US military hospital (look at the bedframe and tile wall). Iraqi doctors are not a reputable source of info IMO.
2) Photo of entrance wound is noticeably absent
3) Photo presumably taken post-cleanout (notice incisions)

I won't call BS, but for all I know that's a picture of a shrapnel injury that was infected for a week before a doc even took a look at it. I've seen a lot of 5.56 GSW's up close and personal and that's not typical damage. All I'm saying is that there's probably a lot more to the story than what that picture shows.

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Old 02-12-2010, 01:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
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That is very interesting to see. I'm a little suspicious that the bullet didn't actually hit the bone, though. I thought that people had problems with bullets passing "through and through" on game animals and not dropping the animal. Though, perhaps the bullet's fragmentation was a result of the hydrostatic shock and led it to fully impart its energy into the flesh.
Bullets like m193 are designed to tumble on impact. When they get to a certain degree of yaw, they come apart. Hunting bullets are designed to maintain their attitude (if that's the right word) as they penetrate and expand.

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Just a point of clarification to one of the above posts F=MA. All the energy tables and equations I am familiar with regarding firearms terminal ballistics use velocity square. Hence, a lot more drug than mere "V".:
For bullets the formula used is energy, not force. E=(mv^2)/2


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My brother took a .223 round. Luckiest SOB alive. It grazed his forearm. Left a brand, looked like a rod laid across his skin. Seven others not so lucky. .223 is nothing to fuck around with.
WTF was shooting at them with .223? Was this stateside?
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Looks explosive, even.

What was the velocity of that .17 hmr on impact? Rifle, or pistol? Just curious.
Yeah that's pretty impressive, the 17HMR is nothing to sneeze at, that's a big fawkin hole! I'm constantly surprised at the destruction mine will do..
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