Washington Pistol Transfer ?

[TrikeKid]

I got offered a couple guns for a car I'm selling on CL, A Saiga 12 with some work done and a P225. I know the long gun isn't an issue, but I'm not yet 21, so I'm wondering if FTF transfer of a pistol is still legal in that case?

[fj40john]

Fairly certain that the person selling would be violating federal law by selling a handgun to someone who could not legally own one.

IIRC underage folks can possess a pistol, but can't buy a pistol. I could be wrong.

[TrikeKid]

Originally Posted by fj40john

Fairly certain that the person selling would be violating federal law by selling a handgun to someone who could not legally own one.

IIRC underage folks can possess a pistol, but can't buy a pistol. I could be wrong.

That was what I thought, can have one just not buy one, but I'm having trouble finding the state laws to back that up. I know my buddy has had his revolver since he was like 16 but it was given to him by his dad who bought it originally.

[HahnsB2]

In WA you must be 21 to buy a handgun from a dealer, you can buy a handgun in a private sale if you are 18. I would also assume you could sell it if you are 18-20 but I'm no expert..

[atblis]

You must be 21 to receive a handgun through an FFL. This applies to all states as it is Federal law.

I remember waiting to turn 21 so I could buy a handgun. Well, as it turns out in VA, it's actually 18 for handguns. Not 21!

Why the confusion (in VA)? The 21 thing is a Federal law, and only applies when purchasing from a Federally licensed dealer. The number of people in Virginia who don't know this is quite amazing. It is perfectly legal to possess a handgun when you are 18 in VA. You just can't purchase it from an FFL holder.

This 21 thing when buying from an FFL arises from the Federal laws being based on their power to regulate interstate commerce. That also limits them (for now). A transaction between residents of the same state is not really interstate commerce. Unfortunately, the Fed gov has made some very creative arguments regarding interstate commerce and gotten away with it. Specifically, intrastate commerce that affects interstate commerce is actually interstate commerce.

You'll need to check your state laws, but there's a good possibility there's absolutely nothing illegal about doing the transaction (assuming he's not an FFL, and is a resident of WA). If he's from another state, it becomes interstate commerce and the transaction has to go through an FFL to be kosher (and you'd have to be 21).
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[Ben Segrest]

Originally Posted by fj40john

Fairly certain that the person selling would be violating federal law by selling a handgun to someone who could not legally own one.

IIRC underage folks can possess a pistol, but can't buy a pistol. I could be wrong.

I didn't reply to this thread originally because I don't know Washington's laws, but the above statement is absolutely false. Federal law only refers to FFL sales of pistols being 21 and up.

[TrikeKid]

I got a local to answer this one for me. Basically I can have it on me on property I own, my residence or at my fixed place of business under 21 EXCEPT for during hunting season, during which provided I have a hunting license I can then carry anywhere. So, pretty much until September of next year I'll have a gun that I can't go anywhere with and can't buy ammo for, but hand guns aren't my favorite thing to shoot when I'm at the range anyway so that doesn't bug me much.

[atblis]

I think your local source may be mistaken. The only thing that I can find is that you have to be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.

Right here it only talks about "firearms" and says you have to be 18. That's all I can find. Says nothing about handguns and needing to be 21.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.040

It sounds like he is talking about this section, which is for people under 18. Notice that is says firearms, and does not distinguish between handguns and longarms.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.042
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[fj40john]

Originally Posted by Ben Segrest

I didn't reply to this thread originally because I don't know Washington's laws, but the above statement is absolutely false. Federal law only refers to FFL sales of pistols being 21 and up.

Like, I said...I could be wrong.

I was basing the answer off of this:

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


Further reading gave me this:

Q: Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?

Yes, a person who —

1. Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
2. Is a fugitive from justice;
3. Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
4. Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
5. Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
6. Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
7. Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;
8. Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
9. Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
10. Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.

A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.

Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

I figured #10 applied since the OP was not of legal age to lawfully receive a firearm.

Best bet is to ask the local PD or a reputable FFL. It most likely won't be a big deal.

[Ben Segrest]

Originally Posted by fj40john

I figured #10 applied since the OP was not of legal age to lawfully receive a firearm.

Under federal law, he is of legal age to own long guns and handguns (I'm assuming the OP is at least 18).

Originally Posted by fj40john

Best bet is to ask the local PD or a reputable FFL. It most likely won't be a big deal.

Asking the police is a terrible idea. Ask a lawyer or a judge.


ETA: I'm not trying to be a dick, but you are spreading misinformation and shouldn't give legal advise if you don't know what you are talking about.

[fj40john]

Originally Posted by Ben Segrest

Under federal law, he is of legal age to own long guns and handguns (I'm assuming the OP is at least 18).



Asking the police is a terrible idea. Ask a lawyer or a judge.


ETA: I'm not trying to be a dick, but you are spreading misinformation and shouldn't give legal advise if you don't know what you are talking about.

Based on what I posted vs. what I now know, I had it coming.

I post hoping that the person on the receiving end understands that they neither know me, or my qualifications (in this case, I have none), and that the post is simply a suggestion. Guess I should put a disclaimer in my sig.

As I mentioned in my first post, I could be wrong, and I was. On the plus side, my bad info led to some good info so hopefully the OP (as well as myself) learned something.

[Red Dwarf]

Originally Posted by atblis

I think your local source may be mistaken. The only thing that I can find is that you have to be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.

Right here it only talks about "firearms" and says you have to be 18. That's all I can find. Says nothing about handguns and needing to be 21.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.040

It sounds like he is talking about this section, which is for people under 18. Notice that is says firearms, and does not distinguish between handguns and longarms.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.042

The source was most likely referring to this:

RCW 9.41.240
Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.


Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:

(1) In the person's place of abode;

(2) At the person's fixed place of business; or

(3) On real property under his or her control.

[1994 sp.s. c 7 § 423; 1971 c 34 § 1; 1909 c 249 § 308; 1883 p 67 § 1; RRS § 2560.]

There are some exemptions in other sections for transporting to and from, and participating in "legitimate outdoor activities". Those are also defined in general terms.

The complete set of laws is here:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

Some of it is badly convoluted so you almost need a roadmap and a law degree to figure out what they are trying to say.

[atblis]

Interesting. That is probably it.

Your guy's laws suck. VA is 18, and you can open carry at that.
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[TrikeKid]

Originally Posted by atblis

Interesting. That is probably it.

Your guy's laws suck. VA is 18, and you can open carry at that.

Yeah, WA's lib dominated legislature likes to copy CA in every way they can and make it difficult to own anything but a rubber band gun. And yeah RCW's really only make sense to the people who wrote them most of the time.

So it's settled that I can own the thing. Next question, is there a good way to check if these particular guns are stolen or not? I don't want under any circumstances later on to have a posession of a stolen firearm charge. Not sure I want to call up the local PD and I can't find any official stolen gun database online, a few enthusiast created ones but that's it.

[Red Dwarf]

You should be able to call the police or sheriff's office and ask them to run the numbers. If you are concerned about the age thing, try to find a buddy who is over 21. Most offices don't have a problem with that and just because you are looking at a gun doesn't mean you are buying it. Really not a bad idea if you don't know the trader very well.

[atblis]

Truthfully, unless you have reason to believe they are stolen, I wouldn't worry about it. If you have reason to doubt the character of the persons you are dealing with, then it becomes a judgment call on your part.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...tolen+checking

Personally, I would not call any LE agency and ask questions. They can be rather irrational about guns and will assume things.
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[SilverZuk]

Originally Posted by TrikeKid

That was what I thought, can have one just not buy one, but I'm having trouble finding the state laws to back that up. I know my buddy has had his revolver since he was like 16 but it was given to him by his dad who bought it originally.

I always assumed it was illegal for someone under 21 to own a handgun.
Based on that prior to turning 21, all handguns were my dad's and I was borrowing them to take shooting.

It was PITA at times even buying handgun ammo. I was so glad to start reloaing my own because I never "got carded" buying handgun bullets, primers, or powder.

[atblis]

WV looks to be 18 as well.

It's the same deal with ammo. Walmart, local gun store, etc. are Federally licensed ammunition dealers...so Fed. law applies.
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