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Old 06-21-2010, 03:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Poured bullets for .458 SOCOM

Ok I did a search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

I am in the market for a .458 SOCOM upper and have gauged the prices of ammo. I would like to be able to shoot this rifle a good bit but the price of ammo has me scared at around $3 a shot. So I was wondering, the cast bullets for a 45/70 are .458, well could those bullets be used for the .458 SOCOM brass and be fired reliably? This is for strickly plinking, shootin up rediculous targets(watermelons, Faygo soda, trees, etc.) and just all around varmit hunting(whistle pigs, coons, possum, plant rats).
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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A good hardcast boolit should be able to take any velocity the 458 is able to produce, I am having hell finding cartridge data. You may have to explore a few bullet types to find acceptable accuracy but plenty of people shoot hardcast boolits around 2k fps.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Would mixing in Babbit make a bullet more dense/harder? What are the alloys? I want to learn as much as I can. I have never reloaded either so does anyone have dies here on Pirate that would do the loading?
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Would mixing in Babbit make a bullet more dense/harder? What are the alloys? I want to learn as much as I can. I have never reloaded either so does anyone have dies here on Pirate that would do the loading?
Wheel weight (clip on) alloy can be heat treated in an oven to something like 32 BHN which is supposedly about the same as aluminum. Clip on wheel weights work perfect for most bullets unless you are looking for low velocity expansion, plus they out-penetrate jacketed softcore bullets.

Small amounts of arsenic allow the alloy to be hardened, tin makes it pour into a mold better, I am not sure what babbit's composition is exactly.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I cast bullets for my 45-70 and I push them at similar and higher velocities than the .458 SOCOM. After looking up some load data for the SOCOM I would say that you could even load jacketed ammo for a fraction of the cost of new stuff. The data I found shows loads with the jacketed 300gr and 405gr Remington bullets that I've bought in bulk from Midway. As for cast bullets, If you want to load some snot slingers, I would cast something that uses a gas check. If you just want to plink as you said, you can still push a non gas checked bullet at some respectable velocities. You can pick up some Lee double cavity molds pretty cheap and they come with handles. The bullets I cast out of clip on wheel weights come in at a 20 brinell hardness just by quenching them in water. That's plenty hard to push at 1500fps or so. In summary, hell yeah, go for it.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You can pick up some Lee double cavity molds pretty cheap and they come with handles. The bullets I cast out of clip on wheel weights come in at a 20 brinell hardness just by quenching them in water. That's plenty hard to push at 1500fps or so. In summary, hell yeah, go for it.
If you buy Lee molds go ahead and spend the money for the 6 cavity mold, I own both and would never buy the doubles again not only for speed of casting but for the quality of the mold.

I hit 1450 out of a 310 grain slug (aircooled wheelweights) in a 44 mag pistol, there is no doubt in my mind that you can push them really fast out of a rifle assuming you use a good lube.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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So what I am gathering here is I have a preetttyy darn good idea for cheap ammo for a .458 SOCOM upper when I get it.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So what I am gathering here is I have a preetttyy darn good idea for cheap ammo for a .458 SOCOM upper when I get it.
Assuming you have a steady supply of wheelweights, yes.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Too easy.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Too easy.

Easier than the search that you didn't really do. When I googled .458 SOCOM, I got more about the caliber than I give a shit about.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Easier than the search that you didn't really do. When I googled .458 SOCOM, I got more about the caliber than I give a shit about.
How the fuck can you say I didn't do a search? Kiss my ass! I did search. Hell I have posted in a few of the threads on here. I know this isnt the only forum that has stuff on guns but there are a lot of "out of the box" thinkers on here hat would rather do stuff themselves then buy the stuff. NONE of the threads addressed using poured bullets for shooting or much about the ammo. I have read the page of the Teppo Jitsu site, all the info on RRA, all the stuff on Fiestyrooster, Wikipedia, etc., etc. NONE of the websites address using poured 45-70 bullets in a .458 SOCOM. I have not checked into 458SOCOM/forum yet because I cannot acces it from work. I fucking searched and have been trying to gather as much info as I can prior to buying an upper.

If you know of a thread other than this one that addresses the specific questions I asked in the 1st post the make me look like a fool and post up.
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Old 06-22-2010, 06:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Sorry about that. Don't be so damn sensitive! It appears that you were looking specifically for cast bullet data. I found shitloads of load data although none of it specifically addressed cast bullets. It doesn't have to. The caliber and bullet weights and even the charges mirror a lot of 45-70 data. Cast bullets will usually run at a lower pressure than a jacketed bullet so any jacketed bullet data can be used with a cast bullet providing the velocities aren't too high. A hard, gas checked, cast bullet can be pushed at over 2000fps where a hard cast non gas checked bullet can still be pushed up to 1500fps or so. Most of the .458socom stuff is in this range. Go to Midways website and look at the Lee molds and look for a bullet that you think you like. (I recommend Midway because they probably have the biggest assortment of molds of any loading supply place, and the Lee two cavity molds because they are the cheapest, about 22.00) Cast a few and try them in your gun. If they don't run, try a different profile. I did notice that many of the jacketed bullets used in the .458socom loads were flat points and similar profiles as many cast bullets so there shouldn't be a problem. Once you find a bullet that works good for you, then get the six cavity mold of that bullet and cast a barrel full.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Any way I have been doing allot of searching for a mold to cast some wheel weight bullets for my 458 Socom. Even though I reload the factory made bullets are up there in cost. The one thing that seems to be a universal theme is that you will need a mold that allows you to put a gas check on it. Usually gas checks are needed if you are going to push you bullets faster than 2000fps. You are not going to do that with the 458 Socom but there have been several forums that I have read that say non gas checked bullets suffer from inaccuracy in the AR Platform due to the back of the bullet getting cut by the jet of gas as the bullet passes the gas block port. I don't know if this is true due to the fact that I have not tried it. But if you are going to spend $$$ on a good mold then you don't want to be disappointed. I will be doing some testing with some non gas checked and gas checked gas checked bullets that are made and you can just buy off of Midwayusa.com or many other web sights to see if I experience the inaccuracy problems. But if you were just going to buy a mold with out knowing either way I would say go with the gas checked option because of the many forum treads saying that is what is needed.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Any updates on using non gas checked cast bullets in the 458?
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Would mixing in Babbit make a bullet more dense/harder? What are the alloys? I want to learn as much as I can. I have never reloaded either so does anyone have dies here on Pirate that would do the loading?
Bearing babbit is NOT all the same. Some of it contains so much antimony that bullets will simply shatter if they hit anything hard, which may be an advantage in some situations, but generally is not. I suggest asking over here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
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