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Old 10-04-2010, 10:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Recoil pads - Pachmayr vs. Limbsaver

Shot my 7mm Rem Mag on Saturday and Sunday, and have the bruises to prove it. I've had the gun since high school, love the caliber, but no longer tolerate the sharp recoil.

Plan is to add an aftermarket recoil pad (factory red Ruger M77 pads suck!!) and saw high reviews on both the Pachmayr and Limbsaver pads. Any OSR preferences?

If that doesn't do the trick, then a muzzle brake is potentially in order.

I've always shot 175gr Partitions or Sierras for elk, and was also considering some 139-140gr loads for deer with a reduced powder charge (ala .270Win)--but don't want to give up the flat shooting, either.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I used the Limbsaver on my Savage 110 7MM mag, and it did the trick. I also have one on my .308 and my daughter used it last year to kill her first deer and had no complaint of recoil. She was 11yo and weighed all of 60lbs at the time. The Pachmyer on my old Marlin .35rem was slightly better than the stock plastic buttstock.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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it doesnt have any recoil pad on it now? if it doesnt, pretty much any will make a big difference. i dont remember the brand i put on my husky, it wasnt too expensive, and works good.
but the one that came on my vanguard is 10x better. sorry, brand wise that isnt any help.

what kind of stock does it have? synthetic?
is it a sport rifle? heavy barrel?

depending on how you use it, the muzzle break will be very effective.
they also make recoil reducers, that go inside the stock.

http://www.edwardsrecoilreducer.com/
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Got a muzzle brake on my .338. Not sure I'd do that again. Muzzle blast when shooting from the bench is - not to mention what happens to your ears when shooting at game w/o hearing protection
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:12 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nevada View Post
it doesnt have any recoil pad on it now? if it doesnt, pretty much any will make a big difference. i dont remember the brand i put on my husky, it wasnt too expensive, and works good.
but the one that came on my vanguard is 10x better. sorry, brand wise that isnt any help.

what kind of stock does it have? synthetic?
is it a sport rifle? heavy barrel?
I have a pad, but it's the crappy hard, thin red one that comes on a stock Ruger M77.
Normal gun--not a featherweight, not a heavy barrel. Common walnut stock.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have used both the Pachmayr and the LimbSaver pads. I am slowly changing out all of my older Pachmayr ones for the new LimbSaver ones.

They both work well, but IMO the LimbSaver ones just seemed to work a small amount better.

Price point is almost identical on them. I do like the way the LimbSaver ones sand and shape better than the Pachmayr ones as well.

I don't think you will go wrong with either one. Just, IMO, the LS one gets the slight advantage.

For a lightweight 139-140gr loading, I am currently loading 139gr Hornady Inter-Lok and 140gr Remington CoreLokt in my GF's 7mm Rem mag.

We are using 64gr of Alliant RL-22 with a CCI-200 Large Rifle primer and Remington brass. The Hornadys chrono at 2950f.p.s. and the CL's chrono at 2900f.p.s.. Both will shoot 1" groups to same point of aim in her rifle. Recoil is very mild, and I am sure a deer won't be a problem at all with that load. This load is close to minimum listed for the RL-22 powder in my manuals so can be worked up quite a bit.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a pad, but it's the crappy hard, thin red one that comes on a stock Ruger M77.
Normal gun--not a featherweight, not a heavy barrel. Common walnut stock.
over that style of pad, pretty much any of the recoil pads will be a big improvement. check that link, you would certainly benefit from one of those.

what do you use the gun for? mainly? hunting, target shooting? is weight an issue?
being a wood stock, i dont know of this would work but,

on my .300 Wm vanguard(light, synthetic stock garbage..) there is a void in the foregrip, i mixed up some clear(fishtank silicone) with some small lead shot. and spooned it into the void, being careful to stay below the barrel.

it doesnt add ALOT of weight, but ANY extra weight helps control the recoil. i added 1.5-2lbs with mine. it DID make a difference. this is all temporary until i get a good solid stock for it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have used both the Pachmayr and the LimbSaver pads. I am slowly changing out all of my older Pachmayr ones for the new LimbSaver ones.

They both work well, but IMO the LimbSaver ones just seemed to work a small amount better.
If you paid about the same, but are still upgrading, that says good things about the LS ones. thanks.

Quote:
For a lightweight 139-140gr loading, I am currently loading 139gr Hornady Inter-Lok and 140gr Remington CoreLokt in my GF's 7mm Rem mag.

We are using 64gr of Alliant RL-22 with a CCI-200 Large Rifle primer and Remington brass. The Hornadys chrono at 2950f.p.s. and the CL's chrono at 2900f.p.s.. Both will shoot 1" groups to same point of aim in her rifle. Recoil is very mild, and I am sure a deer won't be a problem at all with that load. This load is close to minimum listed for the RL-22 powder in my manuals so can be worked up quite a bit.
I was thinking even milder. I wouldn't mind something only 2,600-2,700fps--maybe something with H4895, but Hodgdon only lists 4895 loads pushing max 130gr bullets--and only ~42gr at that.

Since I got an AR, I'm enjoying shooting more, and wanting to shoot my other guns more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevada View Post
over that style of pad, pretty much any of the recoil pads will be a big improvement. check that link, you would certainly benefit from one of those.

what do you use the gun for? mainly? hunting, target shooting? is weight an issue?
being a wood stock, i dont know of this would work but,
This is my main hunting rifle. I shot a .270Win when I first started hunting, then nearly lost a cow elk (150gr through both lungs) and Dad put it down with his 7mm. I've had this 7mm ever since. It does the job great, but isn't pleasant to shoot. I want to run some reduced recoil loads so I can enjoy shooting a couple of boxes through it, rather than only the pre-season fire 5 rounds, "yup, it's still on" routine.

140gr will be for deer and fawking around.
I'll stick to the 175gr for elk.
I would be reluctant to add more than 1#, as I'll have to carry it up and down hill all day!
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Here's a guy using 4895 with 51gr of 4895 and ~2,800fps
http://hunter4life.com/reduced-handl...or-7mm-magnum/

intenseimages, that R-22 looks like a very flexible powder for the 7mm and .270.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...3&bulletid=116
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have a limbsaver on my 300wm Tikka T3 light

It does a pretty good job, 180gr loads are pretty tolerable, 200's still sting a bit. A couple of weekends ago I went through 30rds in one session.

Do they make a limbsaver that fits your gun without modification?
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
intenseimages, that R-22 looks like a very flexible powder for the 7mm and .270.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...3&bulletid=116
Very flexible powder. I use Alliant's RL powders almost exclusively in all of my rifles. My favorite 30-06 load uses RL-22 and pushes a 165gr bullet just a RCH under 3000f.p.s. I am looking forward to experimenting with some of their newly released powders as soon as I can find any locally.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yeah, Toyoland66, looks like they do:
http://www.limbsaver.com/store/produ...roductid=16228

--
Accurate 5744 has a stupid wide load range for the 7mm:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/2003guide.pdf
Accurate lists a starting load:
Sierra 140gr Soft Point Boat tail
CCI 250 Primer
27.5 Grains Acurate 5744 Powder
2050fps
Max: 45.5gr 5744
2948 fps

Gotta lose some accuracy with that small load of 27.5gr!
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
I was thinking even milder. I wouldn't mind something only 2,600-2,700fps--maybe something with H4895, but Hodgdon only lists 4895 loads pushing max 130gr bullets--and only ~42gr at that.

What books do you have? I have the "one book-one load" series for all of my rifles and handguns. If you need or want some more reloading info on the 7mm Rem Mag shoot me a PM, and I will see what I can find for you when I get home from work.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Haven't loaded much in 20 years, loaded in HS with my best friend and his dad.

Have pretty much stuck with a standard (max/near-max depending on the book) load of IMR4831 and 175gr Nosler Partitions.

Just planning to get back into it. I've got a pile of 20-pg catalogs with common loads from the major powder manufacturers. Grew up poring over the big Lyman book.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I bought one of the Limbsaver slip-on pads and found that it adversely effected my accuracy. It tends to move around from side to side. If you want to try it I'll sell it cheap.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Local sporting goods store has them in stock--I'd prefer a screw-on full replacement!

Just did a lot of searching, and there are a lot of reduced-recoil loads with SR4759--pretty much a reduced-recoil loading powder. Higher bulk (good for accuracy and keeps the powder at the primer) and fast burning. Speer #13 says 28gr under 145gr for 2,112fps and 35gr under 150gr for 2,420fps.

...not only reduced recoil, but cheap shootin' when you consider that near max, most 7mm loads are also over 60gr....and I bought 2 boxes of 140gr BTSP at a gun show for $10/box.
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I put 2 boxes thru my 7mm yesterday. The first round had a slip on recoil pad but I removed it. I think your problem is how you hold the gun. I moved my scope so when the gun was fitting my body corectly I could see thru the scope. I don't think a recoil pad is the problem because I didn't think mine kicked bad. get a good grip on the gun then move the scope to your line of vision. No expert here but that worked for me.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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1. Limbsaver

2. Ask Halogrinder what kind of shoulder pad he uses for target shooting.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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1. Limbsaver

2. Ask Halogrinder what kind of shoulder pad he uses for target shooting.
Past is the brand of shoulder pad I think he had.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpalump View Post
I put 2 boxes thru my 7mm yesterday. The first round had a slip on recoil pad but I removed it. I think your problem is how you hold the gun. I moved my scope so when the gun was fitting my body corectly I could see thru the scope. I don't think a recoil pad is the problem because I didn't think mine kicked bad. get a good grip on the gun then move the scope to your line of vision. No expert here but that worked for me.

No offense, but after this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpalump
I could use some 7mm Rem Mag schooling
I don't know jack about long range hunting rifles but I picked up a Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic that shoots 7mm Rem mag shells at a yard sale. Can I shoot ultra magnums in it? Do I sight it in at 200 yards? I got the gun with a soft and a hard case. 10 boxes of ammo,1 box of 30/30 and about 75 rounds of 9mm. It came with a Simmons varable 14 power ATV scope. Never heard of the ATV scope but it works. Nice clean gun too. Payed 450. Whats the difference between shooting a 175 grain or a 150? What one would be best to take out a car engine fast and light or heavy and slow?
I am not sure anybody is going to take anything you say or advise even half seriously.

Also, there is a significant difference in the shape and recoil reducing abilities of stocks such the Weatherby Vanguard you are shooting, and what many people consider probably the worst design ever for delivering recoil to the shooter of the Ruger M77 he is shooting.


MT4Runner, that 5744 has a stupid huge range. I don't think I have ever seen a powder with quite that large of a safe usable range. I may have to look up more info on it to give it a try in some of the hunting rifles the kids use so they can practice more without beating the crap out of them.

Thanks.

I also have both the slip on pads (have one on my daughters Savage 99 in .308) and the screw on mounts. The trick to the slip on ones is make sure you get one that actually fits the rifle. not a cheap $9 knock off one size fits none.

The one on her model 99 fits it just like it was made for it. No movement at all while shooting or carrying. Only movement is if you make a very determined effort to move it or remove it. It is also a LimbSaver model.

It is a lightweight model rifle and one I used to really not like shooting that much due to the fact that there was no good way to shoot it without it smacking you pretty damn good. (yeah, I know, it is a .308. I am a puss.) Now, with even just that slip on LimbSaver on it, I can shoot two or three boxes of full power 180gr elk loads through it without a problem.

I also have a LS slip on for my Mosin until I get finished making the stock. It tames that thing right down as well.

All of my others that have LS have the screw on ones. I do prefer the screw on ones.

What I usually do is put them in place. Mark well where I need to fit them to size. Take them off and use a belt sander with 120 grit on it to take them real close to final size. Then install and mark again, then remove and sand by hand. Repeat until you get exact fit you want. I then give the recoil pad a light coating with some epoxy and put in place and tighten down.
wipe off any excess epoxy and then let it set up.

I know they make a direct fit screw on one for most rifles made. I have found a lot of times even those need some minor fitting. However, since i usually don't mind doing the work of fitting them, I save a few bucks and by the generic sand to fit ones and do total install myself.

One word of warning, before you do the sanding make sure you are outside. If not that black sorbethane stuff they are made of will get EVERYWHERE.

Here is a link for install instructions and a grind to fit instructions video

http://www.limbsaver.com/2010/produc...rind/index.php
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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MT4Runner, that 5744 has a stupid huge range. I don't think I have ever seen a powder with quite that large of a safe usable range. I may have to look up more info on it to give it a try in some of the hunting rifles the kids use so they can practice more without beating the crap out of them.

Thanks.
It sounds like many handloaders' go-to powder for reduced recoil loads.

Did you also see Hodgdon's youth loads tables?:
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf
All based on H4895 and generally 120-130gr bullets.

Quote:
I know they make a direct fit screw on one for most rifles made. I have found a lot of times even those need some minor fitting. However, since i usually don't mind doing the work of fitting them, I save a few bucks and by the generic sand to fit ones and do total install myself.
Thanks.

I sprung for a screw-on, sized pad, and had it installed about 15 minutes after I got home from the sporting goods store. The holes were about 1/4" too low each, but some quick work in front of the drill press and I had it installed. Increased my length of pull about 1/2", but I have long arms, and that won't be an issue! Now I just have to shoot the beast.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It sounds like many handloaders' go-to powder for reduced recoil loads.

Did you also see Hodgdon's youth loads tables?:
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf
All based on H4895 and generally 120-130gr bullets.

Thanks for the link. That would put the 7RemMag down in the 7x57 Mauser territory. Definitely interested in looking at that for reduced loads.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:58 PM   #23 (permalink)
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the hogue pads that come on their stocks are super soft and tame recoil awesome. i bought a limbsaver for a light little over/under i have and i was not impressed at all. i replaced it with a hogue pad and It's much better now.

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Old 10-06-2010, 07:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
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i use a PAST- it works fantastic.
i gotta use a shoulder pad, due to a bitchy shoulder when i shoot a bunch. i would rather deal with the "Vagina pad" than deal with an aching shoulder for a few days while i have to use it @ work. its just how it works with me


a few shots- no problem.
a buncha shots- problem.






honestly when we were up @ the OSR, i was expecting to shoot a shit ton more- it just didnt pan out.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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MT4Runner, that 5744 has a stupid huge range. I don't think I have ever seen a powder with quite that large of a safe usable range. I may have to look up more info on it to give it a try in some of the hunting rifles the kids use so they can practice more without beating the crap out of them.
I emailed Accurate about 5744, and this is what Johan the ballistician said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4Runner
Hello Johan,

The Accurate 5744 appears to have an extremely wide range for the 7mm Remington Magnum--it would appear to have good properties for both reduced loads up to near top velocity loads at max charge.

Any concerns with detonation (double-ignition) with the low volume starting charge, or is it a fast-enough burning powder? Should I use a standard Large Rifle primer or stay with Magnum?

Thank you !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan@Accurate
Shawn,
That is not correct.
A-5744 is intended solely for reduced loads and will not deliver even close to optimal/high velocities.
It's an extremely fast burning Rifle powder designed for reduced loads, as well as for magnum handgun applications.
It will cover velocities from low to about midrange.
You can standard primers.
The powder will ignite fine even at the low loads no filler required.
See caution below re double charging.

Caliber: 7mm Remington Magnum.
Barrel length: 24”
Reduced loads:
Powder: Accurate – 5744®.

Bullet weight: 120grains.
Low load: 28.0 grains (1900 – 2000 Fps)
Mid range load: 34.0 grains (2100 – 2200 Fps).
Maximum load: 40.0 grains (2300 – 2400 Fps)

Bullet weight: 140grains.
Low load: 25.9grains (1800 – 1875 Fps)
Mid range load: 31.5 grains (2000 – 2075 Fps).
Maximum load: 37.0 grains (2200– 2300 Fps)

Bullet weight: 170-175grains.
Low load: 24.5 grains (1575 – 1675 Fps)
Mid range load: 29.8 grains (1800 – 1875 Fps).
Maximum load: 35.0 grains (2000 – 2100 Fps).



NOTES:

It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.

1. TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.

2. CAUTION: Beware of double charging if the loading density is below 50% of the available volume.
Examples:

- Most Handgun caliber/powder combinations as well as

- A-5744 with reduced loads for rifles.
3. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.



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