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Old 11-27-2010, 05:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Mexican Mauser 1912?

Ok, so my friend brought me a really dirty 1912 mauser, stamped with the mexican crest right over the chamber. Problem is, I know nothing about mausers. Can anyone here let me in on the details of these guns, or point me to a book or reference to figure out the proof marks and such?

Maybe that's a really Mauser noob question, but I figured here was the best place I could start. It's 41" overall length, bent bolt, broken safety and heavy petina on it. I'm going to try and buy it from him, but I don't know the chamber, (7mm mauser I'm guessing) or many other details.

I'll answer any questions you have to any markings that would help me identify it more. Thanks in advance guys.

Phil
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yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

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He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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How much $ are you looking at giving for it?


Is the safety broken off? Or just not functional? Mauser safeties won't engage unless the bolt is in the "cocked" position. It has 3 positions, one to allow the rifle to fire, second allows the bolt to open but locks the trigger, and third locks both trigger and bolt.


Got any pics of it? Mexican mausers aren't the most common out there. And yes, it will be 7mm.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wood

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Old 11-28-2010, 05:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animator View Post
How much $ are you looking at giving for it?


Is the safety broken off? Or just not functional? Mauser safeties won't engage unless the bolt is in the "cocked" position. It has 3 positions, one to allow the rifle to fire, second allows the bolt to open but locks the trigger, and third locks both trigger and bolt.


Got any pics of it? Mexican mausers aren't the most common out there. And yes, it will be 7mm.
I've got to run north for a few hours today, but when I get home I'll upload a picture of it. Yes, the safety lever is actually broken off, and the trigger will move but will not drop the firing pin. Guess I need to tear it down and see what else is broken in there. Right now the safety is standing straight up, with the lever piece actually broken off of it.
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Originally Posted by Co Pilot
yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

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He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.

Last edited by BigManBrock07; 11-28-2010 at 05:51 AM. Reason: Wrong part...lol
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BigManBrock07 View Post
Yes, the safety lever is actually broken off, and the trigger will move but will not drop the firing pin. Guess I need to tear it down and see what else is broken in there. Right now the safety is standing straight up, with the lever piece actually broken off of it.

From the sounds of it, nothing else is broken in there. If the safety handle is in the straight up position it will allow the bolt to open but will not allow the firing pin to drop when the trigger is pulled.

Replacement safeties are relatively cheap and easy to install.

Post pics, please.

If anywhere within serviceable and shootable condition and he isn't asking a fortune for it, I say buy it and shoot the shit out of it.

Or, offer it to me for a decent price and I will buy it and shoot the shit out of it.

I have had Mauser seller's remorse since I sold off my last one.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by intenseimages View Post
From the sounds of it, nothing else is broken in there. If the safety handle is in the straight up position it will allow the bolt to open but will not allow the firing pin to drop when the trigger is pulled.

Replacement safeties are relatively cheap and easy to install.

Post pics, please.

If anywhere within serviceable and shootable condition and he isn't asking a fortune for it, I say buy it and shoot the shit out of it.

Or, offer it to me for a decent price and I will buy it and shoot the shit out of it.

I have had Mauser seller's remorse since I sold off my last one.
What would be a decent price if the bore cleans up for something like this? Haven't played with mausers before, so I'm unsure of a fair price. No need to rip him off or over pay.
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yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

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He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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A lot will depend on actual condition, actual year of manufacture, actual manufacturer (FN, Steyr, etc.)

I have seen standard German Mod. 98's go for anywhere from $75 to $1000.

A quick search shows similar pricing on the Mod. 1912 Mexican Mausers.

Maybe post some pics to give us an idea of condition and we could give a better idea on price to offer.

Depending on what you want to do with it, leave it stock or customize it, will also play a role in how much you want to invest in it.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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BTW, here are some quick specs on the 7x57 cartridge:

Bullet weight Velocity Energy
139 gr 3,000 ft/s 2,390 ft·lbf

162 gr 2,600 ft/s 2,480 ft·lbf

188 gr 2,500 ft/s 2,450 ft·lbf

173 gr 2,300 ft/s 2,025 ft·lbf


There isn't much in the U.S. you can't hunt with one.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by intenseimages View Post
BTW, here are some quick specs on the 7x57 cartridge:

Bullet weight Velocity Energy
139 gr 3,000 ft/s 2,390 ft·lbf

162 gr 2,600 ft/s 2,480 ft·lbf

188 gr 2,500 ft/s 2,450 ft·lbf

173 gr 2,300 ft/s 2,025 ft·lbf


There isn't much in the U.S. you can't hunt with one.
Yep...but I do believe that 173 is a typo cuz Ive never ever run into 173 gr slugs, just 175s.

I'm inclined towards using the 139 gr and a 175gr in mine though. FWIW, 175gr (FMJ) happens to be what was used originally...

D.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous View Post
Yep...but I do believe that 173 is a typo cuz Ive never ever run into 173 gr slugs, just 175s.


D.

Ooops, missed that. I believe you are correct.
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Gun is made by Steyr, incase it doesn't show well enough in the picture. Been sitting for years, has some surface rust. I don't plan on changing it at all. Either leave it just how it is after I fix it, or maybe reblue it and redo the wood if it isn't worth much. All the numbers I've found match the 1941 from the bolt to the receiver. Only other date is the 1912 but I beleive that's the gun itself right?
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Originally Posted by Co Pilot
yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

quote:
He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't think a re-blue is in order. Looks like some light oil and some time spent with some 0000 steel wool would clean up a good portion of that.

Due to condition and broken safety I'd offer $150-200 and see if he takes it. Then clean it up and shoot it like all the zombies from hell were attacking.


PS: Yes, that is a 1941 Steyr manufactured Modelo 1912 "Mexican" Mauser.
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm always so nervous about taking steel wool to a gun. Will it not make it look like shit? Also, if I get it for say $100, I'd be doing quite well eh? Why is it the mexican models are worth less? They actually short worse, or is it just because most buyers don't like tacos?
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Originally Posted by Co Pilot
yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

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He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm always so nervous about taking steel wool to a gun. Will it not make it look like shit?
As long as it is as fine as 0000 and you are using a light oil all it will do is polish it up really nice and remove most surface rust unless you go all gorilla arm on it. It is the same grade of steel wool I use to final polish wood stocks and different knife handle materials just prior to using the polish wheel on them.

Don't go for full factory original like finish on it. Just lightly polish with the steel wool. It should take off most of the surface rust, but not go so deep as to start effecting the bluing.

Quote:
Also, if I get it for say $100, I'd be doing quite well eh?
Yes. A good friend of mine once said "any gun that shoots is worth $100" Hard to really go wrong with a Mauser for $100.

Quote:
Why is it the mexican models are worth less? They actually short worse, or is it just because most buyers don't like tacos?
Actually, from what I have read, the Mexican Model 1912's can be kind of scarce and command a premium. The condition the one you posted pics of tends to drive the price down quite a bit though. It may clean up into an almost pristine rifle and after fixing the safety be an excellent score. But, I would use the condition of rifle "as is" as a bargaining point right now.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Gun is made by Steyr, incase it doesn't show well enough in the picture. Been sitting for years, has some surface rust. I don't plan on changing it at all. Either leave it just how it is after I fix it, or maybe reblue it and redo the wood if it isn't worth much. All the numbers I've found match the 1941 from the bolt to the receiver. Only other date is the 1912 but I beleive that's the gun itself right?
Fact that its a 1912 tells me its a M98 action which one can get after an market safety for for not much. Fact that its 1912 and made by Styer says well built despite outward appearance. I might have the chamber and rifling checked if only because some of the older ammo used corrosive berdan primers and ya never know...

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Old 11-30-2010, 12:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for that info sir. I will for sure be trying to buy this rifle in the next couple days.
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Originally Posted by Co Pilot
yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

quote:
He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Actually, from what I have read, the Mexican Model 1912's can be kind of scarce and command a premium. The condition the one you posted pics of tends to drive the price down quite a bit though. It may clean up into an almost pristine rifle and after fixing the safety be an excellent score. But, I would use the condition of rifle "as is" as a bargaining point right now.




I've seen a few "good condition" original mexican mausers selling in the 1000 price range.... they're definitely one of the lesser-common makes out there.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I've seen a few "good condition" original mexican mausers selling in the 1000 price range.... they're definitely one of the lesser-common makes out there.


You shut yo mouf. How am I supposed to convince him to sell me his $100 purchase for $150 if you post shit like that?
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Year

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PS: Yes, that is a 1941 Steyr manufactured Modelo 1912 "Mexican" Mauser.
That is a year 1912 Model 98 serial number 1941. Probably some digits some where that extend or preface the 1941.

My Steyr is a 1912 Modelo Chileno. The number on the crest is the year of manufacture, not the model number. It is a model 98 large ring. You won't find Model 98's stamped 98 unless they were made in 1898.

http://www.mausercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8895

This is a 1919 Model 96 Swede:



Here is a reworked arsenal dated gun:



A Dirty Greek



Edit: Don't mean to sound snarky or KIA. There are books written on these weapons. All kinds of crests and dates, numbers, flags, graphics, etc. Until the AK came out there were more Mausers made in more places than any other rifle. A bewildering breed and mix of Receiver diameter, length, bolt spacing and various combinations therein. Some Mexican Mausers were large ring medium action, etc ad infinitum. The Steyr action if in sound condition is strong and was used in "modern" high power loads.
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You won't find Model 98's stamped 98 unless they were made in 1898.
Not to argue, but all three of the Mod. 98's I owned had Mod. 98 stamped on the left receiver in front of cut out with the year of manufacture stamped on top of the receiver and serial in various places.
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The crest is stamped 1912.

If the bolt serial number matches those on the receiver and the barrel..............

This weapon was originally in 7x57 Mauser. Same as the OP. The Big 5 relic I bought for ### 12 years ago had been re-barreled to 7.62 NATO, probably by the Chilean military in an upgrade to modern spec ammo and the because the original was certainly shot out with corrosive ammo/primers. The .308 barrel bore that I got was was gone, junk, rusted brown. I had it re-barreled to 6.5-06. Third shuffle of the deck and a new lease on life. Things things refuse to die.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Not to argue, but all three of the Mod. 98's I owned had Mod. 98 stamped on the left receiver in front of cut out with the year of manufacture stamped on top of the receiver and serial in various places.
Ya to that. He, they, seemed concerned about the value of the weapon. The important things are the matching serial numbers and the bore condition. Not even any mention of that in this entire thread. It's not collectible, has a beater stock and metal obviously, at best a mediocre shooter, second best a 92 yo action he can easily drop $400-$600 on, and at very worst a bomb waiting to go off in someone's face. Since the original serial #'s match, that means it's an original barrel and that it shot gawd knows what kind of corrosive ammo.

How do you break a safety like that off ?

I am unable to determine if that model originally had a bent bolt. I don't know why it would have one. All the Mil Mausers I have seen from that era were straight bolt. If the bolt was later bent by an amateur in a vise with a torch, that's one more thing to worry about. .. ..
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ya to that. He, they, seemed concerned about the value of the weapon. The important things are the matching serial numbers and the bore condition. Not even any mention of that in this entire thread.

True, guess some of us ASS-umed that went without saying. Guess it should have been mentioned.

Quote:
It's not collectible, has a beater stock and metal obviously, at best a mediocre shooter, second best a 92 yo action he can easily drop $400-$600 on, and at very worst a bomb waiting to go off in someone's face.
Very true. OP, and others in the future, make sure any and all antique firearms are always checked by a competent gunsmith before shooting.

Quote:
Since the original serial #'s match, that means it's an original barrel and that it shot gawd knows what kind of corrosive ammo.
Also true.

Quote:
How do you break a safety like that off ?
My best guess? I'd say previous owner had no clue how a Mauser safety worked and forced/attempted to force it into an "on" position when rifle wasn't cocked. Therefore, the weak link in the equation, ie: safety lever, gave before most of the stronger parts inside of the bolt.

Next guess, they didn't know to pull out that lever on the side to remove bolt from rifle. They then flipped safety to up position and tried beating bolt out, in turn breaking safety handle.

Hard to say what internally is good or bad without pulling bolt out and disassembling.

Quote:
I am unable to determine if that model originally had a bent bolt.
Seen pics of both bent and straight. For the most part the Mexican ones I have looked up had a bent bolt. Out of the three Mod. 98's I have owned, two had straight bolts originally, and one had a bent bolt similar to OP's. My bent bolt was a 1944 made byf stamped Karabiner 98.


Quote:
I don't know why it would have one. All the Mil Mausers I have seen from that era were straight bolt. If the bolt was later bent by an amateur in a vise with a torch, that's one more thing to worry about. .. ..
It looks to me like an original bent bolt, but could be an aftermarket attempt. Usually if that is done though it is to mount a scope and I see no attempts or marks on the receiver to indicate this was done.

Unfortunately, in my researching older Mausers, I have come to find that a lot of the time these rifles are like older Mopar's. Just because a book doesn't list it doesn't mean it wasn't done. Which leaves people like us with a whole lot of
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Just to help some more, 6 pages of various crests and markings with pics:

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...4177860979ab82
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Ya to that. He, they, seemed concerned about the value of the weapon. The important things are the matching serial numbers and the bore condition. Not even any mention of that in this entire thread. It's not collectible, has a beater stock and metal obviously, at best a mediocre shooter, second best a 92 yo action he can easily drop $400-$600 on, and at very worst a bomb waiting to go off in someone's face. Since the original serial #'s match, that means it's an original barrel and that it shot gawd knows what kind of corrosive ammo.

How do you break a safety like that off ?

I am unable to determine if that model originally had a bent bolt. I don't know why it would have one. All the Mil Mausers I have seen from that era were straight bolt. If the bolt was later bent by an amateur in a vise with a torch, that's one more thing to worry about. .. ..
First off, all the numbers match as a 1941 on the sight in 2 spots, the barrel, reciever and bolt handle. The stock has a relief for the bent bolt, which the 41" mexican mausers apparently had from some reading I've done last night.
From what I've been reading up on these, this model seems to be a pretty rare gun, why I don't know, other than there weren't many recieved by the mexican goverment.

From what I can tell without actually cleaning the gun, the bore looks pretty decent. At the reciever end it has some white gunk in it, but I don't want to clean it without actually getting the owner to ok it, or (and this is my preference) me buying the gun.

What would make the stock a beater versus a good stock? Look, I have 30 some guns in the safe...I'm not gun stupid, just don't have a fucking clue about Mausers. Just a new gun to me. Like working on BMWs all your life and your uncle bringing you a 1956 Corvette. Not that you can't turn a wrench and make it run, just don't know shit about it.
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yeah.... your wifey poo cant wear all the pretty pantys she wants.. but if she aint giving it up... whats the point?

quote:
He could have used a bigger hammer though, and then things break faster so you can move on to the next step of cussing quicker.
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