Anyone attended a Rally School ?

[OTR]

What did you like or not like ?

Did you attend as a driver, navigator, or was it an all inclusive school ?

Were cars provided for the driving sessions or did you bring your own ?

Who held it, where was it, and how much did you spend ?


Ive been wanting to give the CRS Rally/Rallycross school in Ridgecrest a try for some time, the dates never seem to work out for me though. They are pretty well regarded in SoCal and run by some of the people involved in the California Rally Series.

http://www.crsrallyschool.com/

$140 gets you one day of school, one day of racing (with CRS points), a sack lunch, and buffet dinner.


If you havnt been to one but know of any (even international), post them here.


k.

[JediJesus]

www.dirtfish.com

I haven't been but it looks awesome. The one you posted is way cheaper and looks pretty damn cool too.

[WAM]

I'm one of the driving instructors for the Ridgecrest school. Ask away.

[SMC]

Myself nor my co-driver went. We learned via trial and error. I have competed with and talked to plenty of people who have attended Rally School and they all HIGHLY recommend it. Not only to you get the basics of Rally, Navigation and vehicle handling dynamics, but you also earn driver / co-driver coefficients for various rally sanctioning bodies. This allows you to compete in faster classes and cars.

If I could, I would love to attend a week session. Im certain that Id end up a better driver from it!

[OTR]

Originally Posted by WAM

I'm one of the driving instructors for the Ridgecrest school. Ask away.

Thanks.

Im a little unclear on how the breakout sessions for Ridgecrest work. It it is clear they have driver and co-driver groups, but are the driver sessions then additionally split for those wanting a stage rally or rallycross focus ?

For someone that has an interest in eventually stage co-driving but wants to run rallyx now, would you recommend the drivers course now or going right to co-drive lessons ?

I remember years ago (8-10 maybe) there being schools twice a year in RC. Will there be another later in 2011 or is it an only once a year thing now ?

Will you be there in February ?

k.

[WAM]

This is all up to Ray and I can't speak for him. But you can expect the format to be somewhat dependent on the actual turn-out. Back when I took the rallyX class, some lectures were for all students and then splinter groups separated to cover specialty items. Saturday afternoon all drivers go to fairgrounds for car-control and LFB instruction/practice, and there's a small rallyX practice course available as well. Co-drivers do something else, but I've never taken part in that.

And then a full rallyX competition Sunday, not limited to school participants.

A person taking the co-driver course will not do the driving practice Saturday, but is welcome to enter the Sunday event. Only one school a year for the past several years, so if you need the co-driver course better take it. Driving rallyX is a pretty easy self-learn. Getting better takes seat time more than instruction. I can turn you on to several places where you can practice on your own.

Yeah, I expect to be there. Hopefully with my rallyX XJ but I've got alternatives if it's not ready.

[OTR]

Bringing this back up...

Looks like Im good to go for the CRS school next month.
Still havnt decided if Im going for the driver or co-driver sessions but Im leaning towards driver unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Question for WAM or UP2MTNS.
Tires.
Mine are near the end of their life. They arent on the wearbars yet but getting close (.10" tread depth). They are also showing some light cracking.
I know new tires are always best, but it would be better for me if I didnt have to replace them before heading up. Ive looked everywhere I know and havnt found anything regarding tire condition. I dont want to get up there and be turned away from the RallyX because of them. Will they be an issue ?

Originally Posted by WAM

Yeah, I expect to be there. Hopefully with my rallyX XJ but I've got alternatives if it's not ready.

Tell Goatman to get on it !
Ive been hearing about it for a while. Cant wait to see it.


k.

[WAM]

Tires legal for street use will be legal to race. Not necessarily fast, but maybe fun.

Goatman is getting there. I called him last night and he was pissin about a frozen LCA bolt or such on the XJ. Better him than me.

[UP2MTNS]

yeah, you won't get turned away...just be sure to have a spare or two available.



Regarding your original post....I"ve done the CRS school on my own twice, now I teach.

I also took Paul Eklund's rally school as well up in OR, totally worth it. I now bring PE down to NorCal once a year and run an event. Similar format to CRS, but 'classroom time' is Friday night, and you drive all day Saturday. I was sore for 3 days after Paul's school.

FWIW, I started rallyX'ing in 2007 and took those two schools in a row. I was a noob at the beginning of the year. by the end of 2007 I was always top three and was competing for top 3 overall championship points in my class. (like I said, FWIW, haha) I also drove +6,000 miles to/from rallyX events that year....that was the beginning of my rally addiction.

I've also taken a half day course at SuperDrives in Ireland....got to drive an Evo 4 and an Escort MKII.....VERY fun.
http://www.superdriveni.com/experien...ex.asp?CatID=5


Lastly, I did a half day at DirtFish rally school to learn on one of their Group N Dogbox cars:
http://up2mtns.blogspot.com/2010/12/...sh-dogbox.html

they're all worth it, IMO.

[UP2MTNS]

Originally Posted by WAM

Hopefully with my rallyX XJ but I've got alternatives if it's not ready.

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

[JessD]

OTR, how was the CRS class in RC?
We really wanted to go over the weekend, but my work schedule didn't permit.

I had a question regarding the driver/codriver split for different sessions: If there were two people wanting to do both, would they have to attend the class twice, and do driver once, codriver the next and vica versa? Jake and I want to get into rally racing, but we both want to be the driver, meaning we have to take turns doing codriver.

[OTR]

Hi Jess.

I ended up not making it. Two weekends at KOH, a broken jeep, and some sorta bug in my throat got the best of me. Im bummed about it, but it'll happen eventually...


Onto your question...
Both "WAM" and UP2MTNS" here are instructors for that school and could better answer it than me. Here is what WAM said earlier about driver vs. co-driver sessions...

This is all up to Ray and I can't speak for him. But you can expect the format to be somewhat dependent on the actual turn-out. Back when I took the rallyX class, some lectures were for all students and then splinter groups separated to cover specialty items. Saturday afternoon all drivers go to fairgrounds for car-control and LFB instruction/practice, and there's a small rallyX practice course available as well. Co-drivers do something else, but I've never taken part in that.

And then a full rallyX competition Sunday, not limited to school participants.

A person taking the co-driver course will not do the driving practice Saturday, but is welcome to enter the Sunday event. Only one school a year for the past several years, so if you need the co-driver course better take it. Driving rallyX is a pretty easy self-learn. Getting better takes seat time more than instruction. I can turn you on to several places where you can practice on your own.

If I were you guys, Id figure out who was going to do more of the driving and divide up that way. You can always share the info afterwards and then when the opportunity comes up for another school you can switch roles.



k.

[WAM]

Pretty good advice. But I'd say put your "best student" into the Co-driver class. Then cross-train each other after the class. Check the schedule tab for future rally schools: http://www.californiarallyseries.com/

[UP2MTNS]

Originally Posted by JessD

OTR, how was the CRS class in RC?
We really wanted to go over the weekend, but my work schedule didn't permit.

I had a question regarding the driver/codriver split for different sessions: If there were two people wanting to do both, would they have to attend the class twice, and do driver once, codriver the next and vica versa? Jake and I want to get into rally racing, but we both want to be the driver, meaning we have to take turns doing codriver.

I actually didn't get to make it down there either, too much stuff piling up here kept me in town and unable to make it.

Anyway....in regards to 'which one'....honestly, I didn't take any of the co-driving classes before I got into the silly seat and I did fine. The CRS school actually covers the basics for everyone before they break out into sessions.

Depending on who you talk to, co-driving can sound pretty intimidating and akin to rocket science. Its really not that hard....I know some navigators have a 32 point checklist....I've been 100% error free with a watch, a few pens/high lighters, cell phone, and a handful of zip ties (I like to zip tie my pens to the roll cage).

As long as you can do basic math and understand that 5:36pm plus 93 minutes is 7:09pm, you're good to go. Yes, lots of tricks and tips out there and 'best practices', but for you're first few events....keep it simple.

[WAM]

Originally Posted by UP2MTNS

(I like to zip tie my pens to the roll cage).

I GOTTA stop speed-reading posts.

[XtremeJ]

Originally Posted by UP2MTNS

Yes, lots of tricks and tips out there and 'best practices', but for you're first few events....keep it simple.

This is why I highly recommend that rally noobs run only tulips on the first few events. Allows the team to get used to all the stuff happening, allows the driver to learn to "read" the road, and slightly reduces the workload on the copilot. All the math relating to time to checkpoints remains the same, without the added stress of full blown Jemba or recce notes.

BTW - I have a connection with the Dirtfish school in WA through the young driver I manage. Savannah is the youngest driver to finish the Pikes Peak hill climb, and she has been invited to Dirt Fish for some promotional stuff middle of next month.

If there is enough interest on this forum, I can ask them if they will offer Pirate forum members a discount. I am in no way directly connected to DirtFish, and have no financial interest in their business, but I will see if I can get cheaper rates if there is interest from this forum.

[UP2MTNS]

Originally Posted by WAM

I GOTTA stop speed-reading posts.

Bill....that literally made me laugh out loud, thanks for the Friday afternoon kick in the pants.

[UP2MTNS]

Originally Posted by XtremeJ

This is why I highly recommend that rally noobs run only tulips on the first few events. Allows the team to get used to all the stuff happening, allows the driver to learn to "read" the road, and slightly reduces the workload on the copilot. All the math relating to time to checkpoints remains the same, without the added stress of full blown Jemba or recce notes.

I agree and disagree to a certain extent. I agree if you can't, for whatever reason, make it to recce....then there's no point in notes and you shouldn't feel pressured that you HAVE to do recce/notes etc.


But, if you can make it and its not a hardship or anything, well....you gotta start somewhere, so why not right away? Just don't get caught up in all the 'yellow highlighter vs. green highlighter' BS. Take your time....learn WTF a "Right 3" even looks like vs. a 'Right 5'.

DON'T worry about the 'plus' or 'minus' crap, but get used to getting in a rhythm, calling the 'opens' and especially the 'tightens' and pay SPECIAL attention to the "cautions"....this is where I think rookie teams can help avoiding balling up the car on the first hairpin of the first stage.


EXPECT to get lost, and don't worry when you do......this way, the driver should still be 'reading the road' while the co-driver keeps pace. TALK to each other, so many times you watch the WRC rally video's where the co-driver is going 100mph on notes and everyone thinks that's how it has to be....don't be afraid to talk back to your co-driver....tell him to slow down, or speed up or if the next turn looks like a 'Right 3' but he just said, "Left 4" then just say "Hold up.....wait...." and drive what you see.

A lot of co-drivers keep their heads down and just read....that's fine if you're both experienced and comfortable with each other and the car, but I personally like to pick my head up and make sure the notes I'm reading jive with what's ahead of us. I also like to use my own 'pucker factor' if I feel someone is driving too fast (if you're both new, and as the co-driver you feel you're scared of going off the road? tell your guy to slow down!!....turn a R5 into a R4 on the fly!).

At the same time, when you get more experience you'll also know when you're driver isn't pushing it, and you can get them to go faster with encouragement or maybe putting a 'plus' on the end of a 'R4'.

When I was co-driving with Kevin Welker last fall at Prescott in his older Subaru RS, we were coming over blind crests that were right 5's and 6's and he kept lifting just before the top of the crest, finally I was like...."Its a SIX....don't lift!!! GO GO GO!!!"

[SeanP]

I have been on PBB for 10+ years and just noticed there is a rally section. Hmmm....

I am taking the Dirtfish 3 day school in april. Will report back, but everything I have read sounds awesome. Grant, let me know how Savannah does with the Dirtfish guys (and accomodations!). What do you mean by running Tulips?

UP2MTNS, good to see a norcal rally guy here. Would love to pick your brain sometime.

SeanP

[SomeGuyFromOlympia]

I went to the Rally-X at Dirt Fish this weekend!!

(this post has nothing to do with what is being talked about)

....but it was fun, and got to check the facility out a little

[bentmettle]

Originally Posted by SeanP

What do you mean by running Tulips?

UP2MTNS, good to see a norcal rally guy here. Would love to pick your brain sometime.

SeanP

Tulips are pictoral depictions of major road features.

http://www.rollcharts.org/tulipdiadef.html


They are used in Route Books to describe where something major might occur in the road.


Conversely, stage notes describe EVERY feature, continuously, but do not describe the road surface or how to drive it.

Pace notes give information on HOW to drive the road.


You really need to be comfortable reading the road to be able to drive safely when your co-driver looses their place. It will happen. As was previously mentioned, it takes a while to begin to see the differences between the different corner gradients, crest styles, lengths, etc.

[UP2MTNS]

Originally Posted by bentmettle

Conversely, stage notes describe EVERY feature, continuously, but do not describe the road surface or how to drive it.

Pace notes give information on HOW to drive the road.

more clarification:
'Pace notes' are typically hand written (WRC guys write everything from scratch). 'Stage notes', which are what's used in the US can include some of the 'how', but you typically have to recce the stages and ADD your own additions to the stage notes.

[redbull636]

I did the 1 day fundamentals course at dirtfish in Snoqualmie WA. it was worth every penny. Full race prep subarus and top instructors. brap! i didnt like the long break for lunch but i guess you gotta stop and eat sometime. The 3 day course with the race prep group n subarus is next for me for sure.

[fj40guy]

Originally Posted by SeanP

I have been on PBB for 10+ years and just noticed there is a rally section. Hmmm....

There is a Rally Section?

WAM - One of the funniest rally moments. Ray Hocker sweet talked his way into letting us have official observer documents for the ADAC Rallye Duetschland, and running as "pre course" car in my stock BMW. Ray is a good man.

Odd part these days... don't know any of the rallyist, but last names.... kids of folks I rallyed with!