Can someone please give me the name of the judge?

[BEAR]

Im with you Tim, I just haven't got that far yet.

So, what is the individual take on the reason why they dislike "us" so much?

Monty:
So Monty wants to x-country ski on an established road but doesn't want vehicles on that road. That would only affect his selfishness during the winter months thou correct?

Rich:
I have no idea why he is involved, does anyone have a reason why he is so against us? I know he retired from the forest service but I am not seeing the reason why he dislikes "us" enough to get involved and have his name proudly displayed as one of the "bad guys".
What is Rich's direct interest i the Rubicon?


Karen:
This one is simpler to understand. Flat lander moves to mountains, doesn't like what mountain people do. Cry's and complains, nobody cares because its what we have done for decades prior. Decides to abuse the legal system for her personal wants and starts suing. Realizing that this tactic can also become profitable, she takes the horse and runs with it. For her, its about money.
I would like to see her tax return and see just how much money she is making from this.
What is Karen's direct interest in the Rubicon?

[randii]

Originally Posted by BEAR

RMK (is that it, just 3 people?), hate us, they hate that we enjoy our lives and have wholesome hobbys.

They disagree on that last bit, at least Karen does. Monte and Rich may not give a damn, but they hate sharing their cross-cuntry ski trails (oh, wait, some of those are ROADS for VEHICLES that have been shared for XC skiers!). It comes down to believing that they know better, are better, or somehow recreate better.

Originally Posted by BEAR

Due to this festering hate they have for us (and for no legitimate reason), they try every avenue possible to ruin our hobby/past time.

Same comment as above on 'legitimate' but everything else you say is absolutely true, Ryan. Karen is very well engaged politically and has strong, mature, well-monied organizations behind her, and is incredibly effective with press releases. She's disturbingly effective, and has been a one-woman wrecking crew for trails throughout the West. Rich joined forces with her through PEER, Monte tagged along with Rich through Ski Patrol, and Marcus daisy-chained in through Monte and Rich's Loon Lake involvement. The resulting network is frustratingly effective -- anti-OHV folks number few, but their influence spans absurdly far.

Water Quality is just their latest BS issue. They will shamelessly tag onto anything that will advance their agenda. You can bet that they have the next few monkey wrenches researched and loaded.

Oh, and I don't think Rubicon is environmentally destroyed, but the experience is certainly changed in the near term. Mother Nature will blunt the most visible impacts of all of this deferred maintenance, but hopefully the underlying drainage work will remain. Yeah, I'd rather the trail just be left the way it has been for a hundred years, but with increased usage, increased awareness, and increased focus from PEER, CSNC, CBD, and other hate groups, it either gets maintained or closed...

Other than those small twiddles, I don't think you are off at all, Ryan (and some of those are just differences of opinion). A tiny handful of people has cost millions of dollars and reduced recreational access for 99% or more of citizens, in so doing, lining their own pockets and advancing their own agendas that their preferred recreations are better. The scale of it is simply stunning.

Randii

[randii]

Rich had Rubicon in his responsibilities while he worked at the Pacific Ranger District. Much mismanagement and blind-eye to enforcement occurred under his watch, and IMHO he fanned the flames to help the issues blow up. I think he either intentionally mismanaged through his job, bumbled and ignored by accident, or both, such that he was professionally held back courtesy of his bad choices and behavior. USFS folks generally move around through multiple Forests is they are *any* good at their job... Platt did not. Combine with that his EPIC misjudgment/omission in creating the Loon-to-Ellis connector reroute and somehow failing to remember to prohibit OHV access from the County Road at Loon to the unmaintained County Road that is Rubicon, and there's enough hate, bitterness, and frustration in that little dude to keep him spinning for decades.

As for Karen's tax returns, I'm sure she's good enough at the game to net very few dollars. With her involvement in multiple organizations, I expect that on the surface, she makes very little money, but that most every expense she has is carried by various organizations. She's a freaking evil genius... no way she's gonna be tripped up by something as basic as the tax code.
If you were an evil-genius with an OHV chip on your shoulder, what high-value targets would you shoot to close?

Randii

[Bebe]

Hate is 100% emotional response.

In psychoanalysis, Sigmund Freud defined hate as an ego state that wishes to destroy the source of its unhappiness. More recently, the Penguin Dictionary of Psychology defines hate as a "deep, enduring, intense emotion expressing animosity, anger, and hostility towards a person, group, or object." Because hatred is believed to be long-lasting, many psychologists consider it to be more of an attitude or disposition than a temporary emotional state.

The one that gets me is the hatred of inanimate things....

[Bebe]

Someone told me that she is a paid consultant, and she makes a really good living as a hired gun to the Anti-Ohv crowd.

Well let me be the first to say that I for one am looking to put her out of business.

[bagman]

Evil genius

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by BEAR

Scott, I would like to know who is ultimately responsible for what has happened here.
/forum/rubicon-trail/1075572-temporary-closure-wws-road-gerle-bridge-construction.html

Bear, I am not sure of the timelines and will only speak in generalities, so take that as it is please.

I do remember around 5? years ago now, (Randii may be able to drudge up the threads here with his super sleuth skilz) speaking with you about this. I kinda remember being at Airport with you talking about this and you had explained to me the personal family history you have with this exact spot.

What is happening now is exactly what we discussed back then. The problem is that the speed of government is hard to stay in touch with because it moves so slowly. The County had realized that the bridge washout back, well, I do not know how far back, took out the County road as it crossed Gerle Creek. They then went out and found some federal funding to replace the bridge there that was I think a railcar bridge installed god knows when.

There was no "order" from a judge on this issue but rather, you are seeing the result of many years planning to replace a bridge there. This is not even related to the USFS because the portion of the road there is on private property if I have my facts correct.

I am not trying to dissuade you from the way you feel about this, but to provide you with understanding on what it is that you are upset about. I can agree with you on your viewpoint, because you explained it to me so long ago and I remember it clearly.

I hope this helps.

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by BEAR

Im with you Tim, I just haven't got that far yet.

So, what is the individual take on the reason why they dislike "us" so much?

Monty:
So Monty wants to x-country ski on an established road but doesn't want vehicles on that road. That would only affect his selfishness during the winter months thou correct?

Rich:
I have no idea why he is involved, does anyone have a reason why he is so against us? I know he retired from the forest service but I am not seeing the reason why he dislikes "us" enough to get involved and have his name proudly displayed as one of the "bad guys".
What is Rich's direct interest i the Rubicon?


Karen:
This one is simpler to understand. Flat lander moves to mountains, doesn't like what mountain people do. Cry's and complains, nobody cares because its what we have done for decades prior. Decides to abuse the legal system for her personal wants and starts suing. Realizing that this tactic can also become profitable, she takes the horse and runs with it. For her, its about money.
I would like to see her tax return and see just how much money she is making from this.
What is Karen's direct interest in the Rubicon?

You are close. Rich and Monte have been friends for decades and have a common interest in both Skilands and the Eldorado National Forest Nordic Ski Patrol. They are both avid skiers that have used the Loon Lake area and feel conflicted with, well, us. Randii gave the lowdown on Rich in his former official capacity and it seems pretty close to me.

Karen on the other hand is not a flatlander and was raised in Greenwood. She was married to a well liked man that was from Georgetown. I do not know what happened, but I do know that they had motorcycle intrusions on their property and that is what started the campaign for her.

I do not doubt she is making a good living doing what she does. We as OHV advocates should take the lesson and learn it.

[BEAR]

Originally Posted by cruzila

Bear, I am not sure of the timelines and will only speak in generalities, so take that as it is please.

I do remember around 5? years ago now, (Randii may be able to drudge up the threads here with his super sleuth skilz) speaking with you about this. I kinda remember being at Airport with you talking about this and you had explained to me the personal family history you have with this exact spot.

What is happening now is exactly what we discussed back then. The problem is that the speed of government is hard to stay in touch with because it moves so slowly. The County had realized that the bridge washout back, well, I do not know how far back, took out the County road as it crossed Gerle Creek. They then went out and found some federal funding to replace the bridge there that was I think a railcar bridge installed god knows when.

There was no "order" from a judge on this issue but rather, you are seeing the result of many years planning to replace a bridge there. This is not even related to the USFS because the portion of the road there is on private property if I have my facts correct.

I am not trying to dissuade you from the way you feel about this, but to provide you with understanding on what it is that you are upset about. I can agree with you on your viewpoint, because you explained it to me so long ago and I remember it clearly.

I hope this helps.

Gotcha,
As you know I am frustrated about this.
Why did they not just replace it with another rail car? Would have been easy, cheap and could have been placed to last. Like I said, this section sees not more than 200 crossings per year, is it really an issue?

I also will add that this bridge had better not have any names on it, specifically a specific EDC supervisor that I overheard mentioning that he wanted a bridge there to put his name on......before all this started.

[BEAR]

Originally Posted by cruzila

You are close. Rich and Monte have been friends for decades and have a common interest in both Skilands and the Eldorado National Forest Nordic Ski Patrol. They are both avid skiers that have used the Loon Lake area and feel conflicted with, well, us. Randii gave the lowdown on Rich in his former official capacity and it seems pretty close to me.

Karen on the other hand is not a flatlander and was raised in Greenwood. She was married to a well liked man that was from Georgetown. I do not know what happened, but I do know that they had motorcycle intrusions on their property and that is what started the campaign for her.

I do not doubt she is making a good living doing what she does. We as OHV advocates should take the lesson and learn it.

So these goons are upset over a friggin ski route? Really? What idiots, do they not know that they can go anywhere else....ANYWHERE!
Why not get off the ROAD and go X-Country

So their hate come from off-roaders, using a unmaintained road, making tracks on that road.....and they cant go around

So instead of being adults and coming to us to work with them and agree on a solution, they dedicate their life to ruining a historic trail with year round access for everyone.

What kinda in-bred genes do these people have running through them

[BEAR]

What a butt hurt clown.

He couldnt even refrain from taking a jab at other Americans enjoying their favorite pastime in his twiggle stick bio.

http://www.snowlands.org/pages/about...ordinators.htm

Since November 2003 Monte has been a member of El Dorado County’s ad hoc Rubicon Trail Oversight Committee as a non-motorized representative working toward resolution of user conflicts, addressing the massive resource damage caused by unmanaged vehicle use, and a still unrealized dream of developing a management plan allowing for responsible motorized use of this historic trail with adequate environmental protections.

Hey Monte....I suppose we could find some clever, creative, non-scientific way to find damage done by x-country skiing and shut that down

[CJ]

Originally Posted by randii

As for Karen's tax returns, She's a freaking evil genius... no way she's gonna be tripped up by something as basic as the tax code.

Randii

So was Al Capone but he wound up in Alcatraz for taxes

[cruzila]

Bear, check out this link. I had some time to dig in to the details.

http://edcapps.edcgov.us/dot/cipfactsheet.asp?UC=77118

full list of DOT projects: http://edcapps.edcgov.us/dot/roadwork.asp

[Lil Uzi]

No party.

This work has been in the planning stages since at least 2008.

WTH is this all about except making a lot about ??

Declared, disclosed, and announced.

FWIW the bridge is an absurdity, but it should not be cause for any surprise or bickering amongst friends

If you want a single basal cell that ended in the cancer of the bridge it would be the last little irritating dirt bike that buzzed Karen's place.

I feel for her on that. Hell, I moved out of Rio Linda because of dirt bikes and the fear of ending in a felony arrest protecting my property from idiots who feel the right to drive over something makes it OK to do it.

Every action, an equal and opposite reaction.