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Old 06-23-2003, 07:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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June VIP Tour

I really want to thank those of you who showed up or offered to show up for our June 19th VIP tour. IT was a huge success.

I'll be posting a full report on my web site, but many things were decided by the ROC committee and politicians that were there.

First, we agreed on the location of a Little Sluice Bypass. Construction will be this summer. It's the route to the right as you come in from Loon, immediately adjacent to the box, on the left hand side of the box, coming from Loon. We will eventually close the route further off to the left that goes by the tricky tree.

Second, we found a few projects (bypasses) that need work soon.

Third, we agreed to ramp a few rocks around Gatekeeper so moderate rigs could get thru (moderate means to me, 33" tires, 3" lift sorta TJ), and block off entirely any bypasses or other routes.

Fourth, we looked at the old pump house for possible movement to the spillway for a kiosk.

More to follow.
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: June VIP Tour

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Originally posted by Jeepndel

First, we agreed on the location of a Little Sluice Bypass. Construction will be this summer. It's the route to the right as you come in from Loon, immediately adjacent to the box, on the left hand side of the box, coming from Loon. We will eventually close the route further off to the left that goes by the tricky tree.
Del, that's a little confusing, will the official be right or left of the box? Left being the high line overlooking the box, or right the pucker off camber climb out of the box?

So will the route through the trees still be usable? We usually camp below the two trees but on the other side. Or will all routes around the back side of the box be closed down?
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Old 06-23-2003, 03:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The official bypass will be the highline immediately above the box, on the left side as you approach from Loon. Not the off camber slab climb towards spider.

The other route off to the same side will be open this year then later closed for rehabilitation.

Hope this helps. Del
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeepndel


The other route off to the same side will be open this year then later closed for rehabilitation.

Hope this helps. Del
Del don't you think there should be some different by-passes to help ease traffic jams so that everyone just doesn't end up head to head.The by-pass that goes to the far left is mainly on granite and is used alot because the narrow channel that comes up from the sluice would be a traffic nightmare. The way that the proposed official bypass would go would direct a huge amount of traffic in a very small space, I think that the work needs to be done but I would hate to see what it would look like if there was only one by-pass around the Little Sluice.
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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We're going to *pave* the bypass so that's it's easy enough for mderate rigs (jamboree and first timers). Our hope is that it does not turn out to be a traffic jam.

Mark Smith is going to donate the conrete and we're going to put in several rock ramps to make that bypass really easy.

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Old 06-23-2003, 11:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Dunno about weakening an effective trail filter...

That said, I have huge faith in Del's judgement and FOTR's ability to make effective compromises, so I'll get in line to pitch in my support, both here, now, and later, with the work projects.

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Old 06-24-2003, 05:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeepndel
We're going to *pave* the bypass so that's it's easy enough for mderate rigs (jamboree and first timers). Our hope is that it does not turn out to be a traffic jam.

Del
It sounds good about the pavement,but I'm only speaking from experiance on closing the other bypass. putting hope in there for no traffic in such a rapid growing sport does not make sence to me.
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Old 06-24-2003, 05:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by randii
Dunno about weakening an effective trail filter...


Randii
Why not put in some permant winch anchor points, we had our rookie run over the weekend and made it through just fine with some carefull driving and spoting. out of 11 rigs we had all kinds of driving skills and setups. Hell we even had a basically stock wrangler with 31"s and a rear locker. Maybe put some loose rocks up there so that people can stack them?
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Old 06-24-2003, 06:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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We're going to set up a planning team (FOTR) to determine what we can all live with and still meet the needs of the ROC and other politico's that get us the money and will help us keep the trail open.

So I take it I'm hearing volunteers to be on the planning team for these projects????

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Old 06-24-2003, 10:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeepndel
We're going to *pave* the bypass so that's it's easy enough for mderate rigs (jamboree and first timers). Our hope is that it does not turn out to be a traffic jam.

Mark Smith is going to donate the conrete and we're going to put in several rock ramps to make that bypass really easy.

Del
Is this for sure? Concrete? Ramping rocks? Are these changes do to the holes that people had trouble with or to prevent erosion?

I have never been on a jamoboree as I'm a Toyota guy, but do they have a lot of trouble through the keeper?

I have never had too much trouble there, even with smaller tires. I suppose my concerns are as mentioned earlier, the weakening of the trail filter, not to mention a fun way to begin a wheeling camping weekend!
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Let's pave the whole trail so I can get my S-10 in there

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Old 06-24-2003, 12:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Don't think he was talking about "paving" the gatekeeper. Think he was talking about paving the bypass around the sluice
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally posted by RCKRATZ
Don't think he was talking about "paving" the gatekeeper. Think he was talking about paving the bypass around the sluice
"Third, we agreed to ramp a few rocks around Gatekeeper so moderate rigs could get thru (moderate means to me, 33" tires, 3" lift sorta TJ), and block off entirely any bypasses or other routes."

So he didn't type the actual word "pave" but any driver who knows what he's doing can drive in w/ 33" tires as the Gatekeeper is now. Why should we make it easier for yahoos with their head up their ass to access the trail. Don't have a problem with "paving" above the Little Sluice at all.

Are you familiar with Bassi Falls and the scenario? If you did then you would know exactly what I'm talking about!
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by RCKRATZ
Don't think he was talking about "paving" the gatekeeper. Think he was talking about paving the bypass around the sluice

UHHHH, from the first post.

Quote:
Third, we agreed to ramp a few rocks around Gatekeeper so moderate rigs could get thru (moderate means to me, 33" tires, 3" lift sorta TJ), and block off entirely any bypasses or other routes.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So he didn't type the actual word "pave" but any driver who knows what he's doing can drive in w/ 33" tires as the Gatekeeper is now. Why should we make it easier for yahoos with their head up their ass to access the trail. Don't have a problem with "paving" above the Little Sluice at all.

Are you familiar with Bassi Falls and the scenario? If you did then you would know exactly what I'm talking about!
Why, because I was once a yahoo with my head up my ass and I bet you were at one point too.

I familiar with Bassi, what are the similarities here? Do we not already have that problem regardless? No, it is close though. EDUCATION will solve that issue not rock stacking.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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[B

So I take it I'm hearing volunteers to be on the planning team for these projects????

Del [/B]
Yes you do
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeepndel
We're going to *pave* the bypass so that's it's easy enough for mderate rigs (jamboree and first timers). Our hope is that it does not turn out to be a traffic jam.

Mark Smith is going to donate the conrete and we're going to put in several rock ramps to make that bypass really easy.

Del
This is what I was talking about. This is paving, concrete and all. (Sluice Bypass)
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Old 06-24-2003, 02:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Why, because I was once a yahoo with my head up my ass and I bet you were at one point too.

I familiar with Bassi, what are the similarities here? Do we not already have that problem regardless? No, it is close though. EDUCATION will solve that issue not rock stacking.

Let me define yahoo with his head up his ass: someone who shoots their guns off aimlessly, into the air, across bodies of water. Someone who leaves their trash all over the place and leaves their campfires still burning, someone who crosses a river, an unmarked part of the trail, just to see if they could do it. All of these things I have seen done at Bassi and the trail has been closed as a result of people's carelessness. The reason I compare Bassi to the Rubicon is because of the fact that Bassi was so accessible. I think if we make the Rubicon so accessible then we're bound to have the same problems arise. You had two groups of people at Bassi, those who wheeled the trail early in the season before the Rubicon was in good enough shape, and you had the group of people who went to Bassi because they couldn't wheel the Rubicon. Most of those people couldn't wheel the Rubicon because they didn't have the financial means to invest in their wheelers to make them good enough to wheel the Rubicon. When you don't have a vested interest in something, especially financially, you don't have respect for what you're doing. In other words, if I'm going to invest $5,000 into my 4-Runner to get it "Rubicon ready," I'm going to make sure that I do all I can to keep the trail open so I can keep using my now $10,000 4-Runner. Someone who has access to the Rubicon with their POS truck, who beats the hell out of it and has no common sense or respect for other people or the trail will ultimately lead to its closure.

So, you say you want to educate people. I agree. How do we go about doing it? There are 2 Ranger stations on Ice House Road as of now, there for the education of people using Desolation Wilderness. We're still having problems with people abusing the area. If we were to "pave" the Gatekeeper, allowing easier access to the trail, how do you suggest we educate people? Should we set up a booth at the Loon Lake trailhead? How are we going to pay the people working there?
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Old 06-24-2003, 02:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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If you care about what's happening with Rubicon and you disagree with the direction things are going, GET INVOLVED. Bitching about it here helps little.... this is just one forum of many on one BBS of many on the greater internet. If you really want to have an impact, the best way is to show up at the planning meetings and follow-up at the work days.

Here's a good place to volunteer:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=154017
I'm in... how 'bout you?

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Old 06-24-2003, 02:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Aren't the planning meetings usually during the week? I'm a good 2.5 hrs. from Placerville, so heading up during the week isn't going to happen. Beisdes, do you really think these guys would take advice from a 27 year old chick? Probably not Just putting in my .02 where I can. I'd like to take my unborn children on the Rubicon someday
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Old 06-24-2003, 05:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 06-24-2003, 05:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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First of all, FOTR will listen to all comments, from anyone. I should say, Del will listen to all comments. But you can't be heard if you don't speak up!

As for the gatekeeper, other threads are talking about paving it, it getting wider, providing stackable rocks, bypasses, patroling it.


Why not babysit the gatekeeper? Seriously!


On the larger weekends, I realize thay are all getting big, organize a club to "host" the gatekeeper the way the Sierra Trek has clubs host a winch hill. They could help people through it, talking, throwing rocks or winching. Their presence would speed things up, prevent nearby bypasses, prevent damage to vehicles and environment, etc. They could also educate those waiting in line (trash, drinking and driving, toilets, fires, bypasses, FOTR) as others negotiate the keeper.

You don't even need a running four wheel drive to provide this service. Those waiting for parts, inspiration or money to finish thier rig could play "Key Master" to "The Gatekeeper". That way when your rig is finished, the trail will still be open for you to drive.
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Old 06-24-2003, 05:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Aren't the planning meetings usually during the week? I'm a good 2.5 hrs. from Placerville, so heading up during the week isn't going to happen. Beisdes, do you really think these guys would take advice from a 27 year old chick? Probably not Just putting in my .02 where I can. I'd like to take my unborn children on the Rubicon someday
The meetings are 6 months apart or so. They are usually in the evening so it would be a half day off. IMNSHO it would be in everyones best interest if you (and everyone else) showed up. Yes they will listen, not neccesarily agree but listen. Just sit in the audience and nod your head when you agree. They will see that. The county is behind this effort 100 percent. So is the FS and the Sheriff. I have been to these meetings and the ideas coming up here are coming up at the meetings. Education Kiosks. Need for a "trail filter" etc. These things are all GOOD for the trail, good for the politicians and good for the users. If you cannot make the meetings DO show up to help at the work parties. It is ALL a step in the right direction.

On June 19 I saw only a win win win situation.






Wait till you hear about the fence around Spider Lake (joke)

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Old 06-24-2003, 05:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Re: June VIP Tour

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Originally posted by jdjanda


Del, that's a little confusing, will the official be right or left of the box? Left being the high line overlooking the box, or right the pucker off camber climb out of the box?

So will the route through the trees still be usable? We usually camp below the two trees but on the other side. Or will all routes around the back side of the box be closed down?
The bypass on the left that has "Toyota rock" will be the official bypass. The face on the right will not be affected as it will fall within the right of way.

I do not think it will be easy to block that bypass. On the 19th I gave it my all to try to convince the powers to let it stay open. The more that speak up on this the better.

If I see it the way it was discussed, the longer North side bypass will be "open" on the granite areas. Only the backside will be blocked. Guess what though. It is on private property. So who knows what will really happen.
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Old 06-25-2003, 05:09 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Planning Projects on the Trail

First of all, the posts here are very helpful. We want everyone to get their two cents in; even if we can't take all the advice or ideas. But FOTR is dedicated to finding the best solution to keeping the trail open and alive.

Also, Tie1on, *27 year old chicks* are always welcome to Rubicon meetings. Everyone has a say.

If you want to be more tuned in with projects and project design, join FOTR.

If you want to be part of the design team, go to meetings, email about specifications, then drop me a note and see the other posts here about that.

I think it was Randii that pointed out that FOTR has made huge progress with the county, the policians, and the vendors and landowners. We have to maintain our credibility with these folks and FOLLOW thru with commitments and deals. We sold the idea of the little sluice bypass with just one tour day. IT was awesome.

But we must maintain our focus. We can vent and chat about things, but we must stand together when the rubber hits the road. We must not butt heads in public, especially on the trail or in front of the politicos.

Del
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