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Let's get with the program shall we folks!

4K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  microtus 
#1 ·
Maybe it's time for another friendly reminder! Maybe it's time for a friendly refresher. Maybe time for a little history lesson.

Anyone remember that cool awesome place we used to camp at, Spider Lake? Anyone remember why it was closed down? I sure as hell do! It was closed down due to SHIT every where and before anyone goes there with their conspiracy theories about private property etc etc. I don't care how you want to spin it, it was closed down due to SHIT everywhere!

I was there as were many others and these are the facts. The place was a disaster! We as a community came together, got our preverbal shit together. Education efforts started, volunteer clean ups happened and we were able to save the trail from further closures.

So here I sit some years later and I receive an email with this picture! Now some might say it's probably not a great idea to post this as our adversaries might use it against us but I say hogwash to that. This needs to be called out and actually will show we are policing our own.

Let's be clear, it is not illegal to Shit in the woods and many still do and know how to take care of it correctly. This I can understand and support when we are way out in the middle of no where but come on. This was found just a few short yards from the toilets at Little Sluice. Really, you couldn't make it that far?

Get your damn shit together people, this is not what we do. We have come too far for us to take steps backwards.

And just as a further FYI folks have been spotted out on the trail mid week documenting and looking for just this type of thing. Our friends are watching us, we are still under a microscope!!!

 
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#2 ·
Loved camping at Spider... So much that I had not run the full trail the first 5 years I started wheeling because I just want to relax and swim there.

Sad to see this. If you cant hit an outhouse at least bury it properly.
 
#4 ·
I guess before I comment fully on this latest example of failed Institutional Land Use Leadership training, truly understanding what you believe as the solution to this ongoing lack of shit compliance would be appropriate.

And so that you understand my belief: calling upon all able bodies to deploy their good will and camp shovels, and scoop that shit up and haul it out, without the further temptation of publicly displaying one's fine work, and/or continually trumpeting an overly biting sanctimonious tune is truly the embodiement of Trail Stewardship and Leadership messaging. Now that would be a fine and, I would have to imagine, well received message.

I would really like to know who on earth sends pictures of shit to other people; someone who is:1) lacking a shovel, 2) trying to start shit, 3) part of a right wing private property owners conspiracy :)flipoff2:) keeping a half dead Boogie Man on life support?

As always, it is my pleasure to have a productive discussion regarding the Rubicon Trail, and further, clearly define effective policies that will serve to benefit its future use and enjoyment by all.
 
#5 ·
Yep, shit happens, that's for sure. And as a condition, we committed to keeping the shit that happens picked up. You did pick it up? Or bury it? Right?

And yes I'm one of those of you are referring to that disagrees that this type of public shame/education is beneficial, in fact I find it highly detrimental.

There is no denying that this goes on in every forest and on every trail in America. Hikers do it in the woods, bums do it in the streets.

I've personally witnessed a pile of crap behind the OHMVR building in Sacramento.

You can stand at the kiosk and hand out wag bags, you can install outhouses at places along the trail. But if someone has to go and they don't have time to get to an outhouse or set up their PETT, it's going to come out regardless.

No excuses, just being human. I reject the expectation of perfect compliance of poop happens on the Rubicon. It happens everywhere.

So truly the refresher/reminder here is that education is constant. New wheelers join our ranks everyday.

So keep handing out those wag bags and pumping those outhouses, cause the shit is going to happen.

.02
 
#6 ·
Coke and Bud spend millions on advertising, when it's obvious to us they exist....but new drinkers appear everyday, and existing drinkers need reminding.

Trail Education is going to be around forever.....
 
#7 ·
this reply is directed at craig cj7 and bebe. each of you implied in your posts in tims thread that trail users should be personal garbage men and pick up after the 1% that don't give a shit about our trails. maybe...... i guess that works as a solution- but i have a hard time accepting that as the only answer to our problem. many people have donated thousands of dollars and their personal time to make sure our trails will remain open so their kids/friends/family etc can continue to enjoy what was taken for granted for many years untill garbage/human waste/toilet paper etc put rubicon at risk as well many of our other trails. yes education is the key to our problem. best thing that ever happened to rubi was the outhouses in my humble opinion....it has made a huge difference. this post in not intended to start shit ( we have dealt with it to long)......but how can we tweak current education efforts/ peer pressure to make it better and have less cleanup to do on our trails?let the discussions begin..... still believe we need to start education in our schools and as a senior in high school be required to do a clean-up project to witness 1st hand why you should not leave garbage/shit etc behind once you leave a area. please feel free to discuss and throw some ideas into this discussion. opinion's from all trail users needed.
 
#8 ·
but how can we tweak current education efforts/ peer pressure to make it better and have less cleanup to do on our trails?let the discussions begin..... still believe we need to start education in our schools and as a senior in high school be required to do a clean-up project to witness 1st hand why you should not leave garbage/shit etc behind once you leave a area. please feel free to discuss and throw some ideas into this discussion. opinion's from all trail users needed.
I'll bring some ideas and thoughts to the table. It occurred to me just a few short weeks ago while out on the trail what we might be seeing is something along these lines.

Many here, myself included, take trail clean up for granted. It has become just part of being out on the trail. None of us are perfect but for the most part us more seasoned trail users have become conditioned to what needs to happen and what needs to be done.

As Ken mentioned above education is a continual thing and never ending. I completely agree but what we may be missing and I know I didn't think of this until recently. We now have trail users (Real youngens) that more than likely have no idea of the things we went through as a community years back. We now have users on the trail that may have been 6 or 7 years old when the Spider Lake fiasco was happening. Man that makes me feel old:D

I completely agree that it is our job to get the word out and this I have no problem doing. Just last week I contacted a club with mainly younger users and I will be attending one of their meetings in the coming weeks. I won't point the finger, I won't condescend, I will just inform and talk history of the issues from the past. I may even drag some of them along for the work party in October.

So there ya go, there's a positive, proactive approach to the situation with some thoughts on whats going on.

Craig, I will throw this out to you. If you would like to come along with me to any of the meetings I may attend I am more than willing to have you there so you can spread your wisdom. And Secondly, We have the work party in Gatekeeper coming up on October 10th and we could sure use some of your equipment and or help. Maybe you would like to attend that. Just let me know and we can talk off line about the logistics.

Thanks again,
Tim.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I spent 25 summers on the trail - always camera at hand. I have a beautiful, and very extensive, collection of shit images with and without the white stuff. First prize goes to the guy/girl who wrapped their turd into the yellow bandana. Yes, the one about white flowers. Creative move. Yellow flowers are so much prettier.
Don't think it's the 1% - they can't be that full of shit. Some regulars must have helped. In fact, I found most of the new shit on Mondays - right after the locals were done partying.
So, Spider Lake. They closed it due to shit. Is Spider where the 1% and the newbies used to camp?


 
#20 ·
before little sluice got "resized" spider lake was very crowded on 3 day weekends. lots of people......lots of white flowers/crap. that has changed because of education and the portable crappers on the trail now. is spider where the 1% and newbies used to camp?-dunno. your theory about locals being part of the problem is interesting......most of the "locals" i know would not be "that" person. can't speak for everyone though. this thread is not about pointing fingers.....but how can the off road community be pro active and maybe raise the bar as far as personal responsibility when they are on our trails.
 
#19 ·
Don't think it's the 1% - they can't be that full of shit. Some regulars must have helped. In fact, I found most of the new shit on Mondays - right after the locals were done partying.
So, Spider Lake. They closed it due to shit. Is Spider where the 1% and the newbies used to camp?


X2
 
#24 ·
We camped at Buck friday night. while hiking around Saturday morning i ran into a guy from reno who was heading to the woods to find a place to poop.

I did point out the FRESHLY CLEANED OUTHOUSE!!!

Is it just educating them or what??
 
#25 ·
Sad!

Craig, I really can't think of a time on Pirate4x4 that I have been so saddened. It is with a heavy heart that I finally see the full extent of your disconnection and actual desire to bring nothing positive to the table.

The sadness comes from the fact that I truly believe you have a lot to offer. Your obvious intellect, business success and locality to the trail put you in unique position. Unfortunately, the transparency of your hatred/jealousy for anything RTF related blinds you from the deeper issues, your distain for anything related to RTF seems to prevent you from doing anything to help even if not connected with them in anyway.

Even when presented with an opportunity/offer to help and give back in things completely unrelated to RTF you choose to side step and ignore due to the emotions and hatred controlling you. This is just so sad. I personally offered up involvement in some up coming meetings and work parties. The meetings have absolutely nothing to do with RTF, The County or any other agency. Just a guy going to discuss some trail history with a group of younger up coming folks.

I guess this could be the education process you discuss so often and call a failure on RTF's part. I personally find it disheartening and a little confusing that you will put the blame for everything (even folks pooping 10 feet from a toilet) squarely on RTF's shoulders but then also expect them to be the ones doing everything.

This attitude/approach seems very familiar to me and is almost reminiscent of a more left leaning government approach. “I expect the government to do everything for me, have no personal investment in the process but yet I will complain the whole way down the line that they are doing it wrong”. That's always seemed a little insane to me........oh wait never mind.......I digress. Craig, your disagreement with anything and everything related to RTF is clear and in some regards you and I may even agree but why do you let that be all consuming to you, why do you let that prevent you from helping in other ways?

We currently have two threads running here that you have partaken in and in both you have used them as nothing more than a way to yet again attack RTF. Your attacks on RTF in and of themselves are fine and you are of course entitled to your opinion but why oh why can't you use your assets and intellect to bring something positive or constructive to the table?

Craig my offer still stands and I hope that one day you will take me up on it. I am and will continue to be involved mostly in volunteer efforts and issues that really have nothing to do with RTF maybe you could do the same. Maybe you are, who knows. The human mind is an amazing thing and for some their thought processes and emotions can change in the blink of an eye, here’s to hoping yours changes to a more positive outlook in the coming weeks, days, hours, minutes, seconds, how ever the hell that works ;)

Have a great day,
Tim.
 
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