Law Enforcment on the trail: 2004

[Jeepndel]

Friends of the Rubicon is in the process of writing a support letter to all law enforcement agencies on the Rubicon Trail. There's some things you should understand.

1. The day of the warning for serious offenders is over. Citations and even arrests will be made this summer for DUI and serious resource damage.

2. Arrests will result in the vehicle either being turned over to a responsible driver (first choice); or it will be left on the trail.

3. Open containers, as we all know, are a violation, but there will always be some common sense on the ground considerations on the rubicon. Our Law Enforcement partners did not tell me this, but my experience tells me that if you're not slobbered up drunk and doing something dangerous in your rig, then you won't be the target of enforcement folks. On the other hand, blatant DUI's will be the focus of lots of law enforcement attention.

4. FOTR supports enforcement and encourages more active patrolling by the agencies involved. This year you will see more overnight stays by the Quad Squad.

5. Folks who patrol the trail include: Eldorado County Sheriff (Quad Squad); USDA Forest Service; CHP (mostly the access roads to the trail, but it's their helicopter that pulls out wounded wheelers); Placer County Sheriff; and Department of Fish and Game (once in a while).

I am sharing this information with you because as the FOTR Trail Boss, I feel it's only fair to let folks know that the rules are changing a bit. This does not mean we can't party in camp. The Rubicon is a place to relax, get away from it all, and enjoy some wheeling. But it is not the place for someone to get blind drunk while driving and end up killing one of my friends or family members.

Email me if you have any questions at jeepndel@goldrush.com

Thanks, Del

[chartdog]

Out, frigging, standing! I may actually go to the 'con on a weekend again.

[HZJ60_Guy]

Im planning a trip this July. I have zero problems with this stuff. I am constantly picking up beer cans on the trails here in Washington. I hate dealing with it. I say if you are stupid enough to put yourself in that situation (as on the normal roadways) then you deserve what you get.

[teapot]

good news for a change

[Aggro]

Originally posted by chartdog
Out, frigging, standing! I may actually go to the 'con on a weekend again.

WOW!!! Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Tinman]

This is no way necessarily representitive of Four Dice's opinion but this is what I posted on the Four Dice Board www.fourdice4x4.bizhosting.com about law enforcement on the Rubicon

"Just because this is about an off road area has nothing to do with the amount off law enforcement required. You have to look at it as a public area. For instance, small towns only need a couple of cops but San Jose needs lots and all kinds. The more people in any public area means more abusers and that means more people(cops) to keep them in line. More people doesn't mean improvement, in means destruction. It's sad but the fact is that anything that grows uncontrollably needs pruning from time to time.

I know this sounds cynical but show me anytime anywhere when lots of people showed up somewhere and things got better in the long run without some kind of control. I think it's called anarchy.

There are three choices.
1. Convince 50% of the people using the Rubicon to go away and never come back.
2. Find a new spot to use until it too becomes popular and ruined.
3. Fix the area you got now so everyone can use and enjoy it for a while longer.

And for God sake, quit whining about open containers and how it's no big deal because "I would never drink and drive."
Ya right, most of those people just don't want the risk of getting busted driving with a beer in their hand. Do you really need to drink so bad that you can't wait for lunch, dinner of just a break in the driving? If so, you may have a problem. This ain't the wild west anymore. Heck even Texas doesn't allow that shit now."


Del, I rode Dirtbikes for 30 years and four wheeled as another hobby but now since I got too old to risk my life doin' all the doubles and triples and such I decided to save my body and 4x4. It's just as exciting in it's way but nowhere near near as dangerous (maybe not.) I want to be involved in keeping these areas open and Four Dice is doing what we can for the Fordyce trail. It's a shame but as a motorcyclist (AMA life menber) I never really did much except rip it up but i really want help now.


The same challanges face four wheeling as have always faced motorcycling except bikes have always had a worse image(not generally viewed as a family sport, OK I ride a Harley too.) Motorcyclists would have you think we are doing OK but can you ride all of Pismo? Is Barstow to Vagas still run? What happened to Saddleback? I think even Carlsbard is gone. I was there when the first American won a GP.

Take this stuff seriously. Most people listen to the SC or some politician who never sets foot outside his house and votes against us law abiding tax paying citizens that just want to have a little fun and relaxation. Don't give them ammo in the fight against us.


Drink in camp. Pickup garbage. Stay on the trail. Don't shoot into or around campgrounds. And for God sakes, quit using your chainsaw by 8 or 9 at least.

Thankyou,

Tinman

[moveaside]

Had a buddy who almost got ran over in the camp area of Spider Lake but some drunk dumbasses who didn't see his tent sitting right there until they hit it. Luckily he didn't get ran over and the dumbasses got a strong tongue lashing.
I love beer as much as the next guy but I always bring out more cans than I came in with. Hopefully the open container thing will be a case by case basis. For instance I've gotten it down to a science of how to lean out the Jeep grab a can off the ground and pitch it in the back of the Jeep without stopping or holding up anyone behind me . I usually fish out all the cans into the burlap sack I'm carrying at the end of the run or when I get home.
Del next time you talk to the local Sheriffs let them know if tickets get wrote for an open container in the vehicle(trash) and no beer on your breath to let those guys go. If I think I'm going to get a ticket for picking up cans on the trail then I'll just stop doing it.

[Jeepndel]

I have spoken (several times) with all law enforcement agencies that will be helping to keep our trail open and patrolled this year.
And YES, we are all saying the same things. If you're picking up beer cans (empties) and doing your part to keep our trail cleaned up, you won't get busted.

This is a common sense approach to law enforcement. If you are picking up cans, put them in your outside hanging trash bag when you get a chance and have a stop. I personally would not fill the tub with beer cans and think that a deputy might not be confused.

Use your common sense. Pass the attitude test if you ever are stopped. Drink in camp and during lunch and breaks responsibly. You'll be left alone.

One last note. I am also organizing a law enforcement tour of the Rubicon Trail for this summer. It will include judges, attorneys and officers. We're going to show them our trail; what we do; and how they can help us keep it open and safe.
more on this later,
Del

[chartdog]

Technically an open but EMPTY beer can is not an "open container". I wrote that ticket once when I was younger and the judge later told me I was wrong. It is still a good idea to put them in trash bags since empties on the floor could bring more attention that you wanted.

There has been a lot of talk and some whining on these boards and the email list lately about law enforcement but Tinman's post here is right on the money.

[Tinman]

Thank you for your support. By the way, don't always be sure that you won't get written up for the stupidest things. I was once in a cycle park with a no alcohol rule and almost got written up because the ranger caught a guy sitting at the same picnic table with me that was hiding a beer under a towel. I never saw the thing but the ranger said he had no way of knowing that I didn't take a drink out of the beer. Talk about stupid. I would have fought that one all the way to the Supreme Court! Luckily the ranger "cut me a break" and only wrote the guy that admitted having the beer. Also luckily, the guy with the beer was a stand up guy and stuck up for me by saying that I hadn't had any. Hopfully the Law Enforcement on the Rubicon will use a little more common sense than that and we can all keep picking up garbage without going to jail for it.

[thomasm]

This all goes back what we learned in Elementary School...

"It only takes one person to ruin the fun for everyone!"

I have spent every summer for the last 30 (or so) years up in the Eldorado near Barrett and the 'Con. Just about everyone that you meet is there to have fun, but there is always someone who thinks that their 'fun' should come before everyone else's.

I also have a distant uncle who is a ranger up there, and his biggest concern has always been for the law-enforcement officials, as he has personally been attacked and shot at for trying to enforce use laws in the back-country...

Tom

www.gctr.org

[Jeepndel]

Our Quad Squad, and the other enforcement folks on the Rubicon Trail have had nothing but good reports of their contacts with us over the last two summers. this one should even be better. The Rubicon Patrol vehicle will add a new dimension to order on the trail. They will also be spending a few more nights on the trail this summer.

Del

[Rockcrusher]

Originally Posted by Tinman

. . . Law Enforcement on the Rubicon will use a little more common sense than that and we can all keep picking up garbage without going to jail for it.

Given the track record of the Eldorado County Sheriff Department, I wouldn't bet on it. Trust me on this . . . I was a long time resident of Georgetown and I've seen first hand how they operate and "enforce" the law.

If you see them on the trail, be extremely deferential, do lots of Yes Sir/No Sir and above all DO NOT call any attention to yourself.

[BEAR]

Originally Posted by Rockcrusher

Given the track record of the Eldorado County Sheriff Department, I wouldn't bet on it. Trust me on this . . . I was a long time resident of Georgetown and I've seen first hand how they operate and "enforce" the law.

If you see them on the trail, be extremely deferential, do lots of Yes Sir/No Sir and above all DO NOT call any attention to yourself.

DIDDO what he said......Born and raised in EDC

[Whitewater]

Originally Posted by Rockcrusher

Given the track record of the Eldorado County Sheriff Department, I wouldn't bet on it. Trust me on this . . . I was a long time resident of Georgetown and I've seen first hand how they operate and "enforce" the law.

If you see them on the trail, be extremely deferential, do lots of Yes Sir/No Sir and above all DO NOT call any attention to yourself.

Especially with our current Sheriff in office.
Although I agree that the trail needs assistance in enforcing common sense and responsible wheeling I can only hope that things remain balanced. Being a native and seeing what I've seen things have been good so far, but I can already invision visits from the SED team and power tripping attitudes taking over at some point.

In the meantime I will remain positive and thank the people involved thus far for their hard work.

[Samurai202]

Del-

I think it is great that you are working with the law enforcement community this way. I'd like to share a story with you guys, although it's not about the rubicon it is about wheeling and land use.

I have lived in Coos Bay Oregon for most of my life. A good portion of it was spent playing in dunes buggies, quads, and 4x4's out in the sand dunes. I always enjoyed the weekends out there, camping, bon fires etc. The big holiday weekends would come and it would get crowded, but it was still fun. Even in high school we'd go out find a quiet spot and drink beer and stuff. But we didnt cause problems.

The last 5 years things have gotten worse. Huge crowds have showed up, and it got out of control, on a given weekend upwards of 2 thousand people could be camping on the sand. The parties became huge and it was absolute anarchy. People were drinking and driving all over, deaths, rapes, and thefts all sky rocketed out of control. The forest service has responed with a alcohol ban, and permit only camping. Where we used to be able to pitch a tent nearly any where, as of 2005 year it will be done by permit only in designated areas only and new fee's will apply. Law Enforcement is stopping you for almosy any violation i.e. no brake light on quad or head light. I went for a drive last weekend out there to a common camping area called tent city. Although most of it was still under a couple inches of water the litter was horrible, it was disgusting really.

Anyway we pretty much lost the fight on the dunes. No more drinking at the bon fire, no more camping where ever you want. So those of you that read this that wanna complain about open containers or what ever just think about your rubicon trail like our dunes. Camping in designated spots only, permit only, limited permits, fee's for entering the trail, fee's for camping.....

[J33P_XJ_89]

nothin here i wouldnt expect already....hope to make my first trip to the con this summer! definitely will be doing my part in keeping the trail safe and clean!

[Tinman]

Don't forget some kind of port-a-potty. Human waste is a huge problem. Not a whole lot of bathrooms up there.

[KingTJ]

so is it considered indicent exposoure if your pissin on a tree at the con?

[Rockcrusher]

Originally Posted by KingTJ

so is it considered indicent exposoure if your pissin on a tree at the con?

It could be, depending on who sees you. Pissing on a tree is considered indecent exposure which, in Cali, is a sex crime. I wouldn't worry about the wheelers but there's gonna be visitors in the 'hood.

[mtnbronco]

you guys are all focusded on the Con, but the problems you site are all over that area. To many people going up there to beat the heat from sac and they think they are in the wilderness and no rules apply to them. I have sat in other camp sites in the area and seen tons of trash left behind and seen spent cart shells lying aroung from 22 plinkers to the 223. Now with the other route in paved we will see more problems more people coming in from roseville auburn area. The issues on the trail effect us becuase we love to use the trail, but we need to address the other areas too. I would not want to leave my rig parked anywhere around there and have it damaged by vandals. The trail itself would wonder how the officers will document if you are off trail or on trail. Do i need to use my GPS and track my locations. So many people use the by passes that some my be unaware of the original trail. Could i get a ticket if i use old sluice, or could i get a ticket if i drive down to the lower slabs at the springs. I think they need to develop a mutual understanding of where we can go and can't go and document it on a nice topo map. Because when you go to court to fight a ticket it should be based solely on the officer's oppinion.. As you can tell I have been screwed by traffic cops giving me tickets for bogus things.. ie modified exhuast, suspension modifications exceeding stock specs, uncovered offroad lights, no font license plate, exhibition of speed, and other hassle tickets. If you consider the Con as a county road(which it is) what is to stop the officers from issuing these kinda of citations. If i wanted to generate some citation revenue i could make a killing on fix it tickets...

[chartdog]

Sorry Rockcrusher, that is not correct, urinating in public can be a citable violation under the right situation but it is not indecent exposure nor is it a sex crime. Worrying about pissing on a tree unless you are some drunk being rude to the ladies is silly.

[Rockcrusher]

Originally Posted by chartdog

Sorry Rockcrusher, that is not correct, urinating in public can be a citable violation under the right situation but it is not indecent exposure nor is it a sex crime. Worrying about pissing on a tree unless you are some drunk being rude to the ladies is silly.

I stand corrected. I based my comment on something that happened a number of years ago up-country from Georgetown. I do, however, stand by my original comment about the Eldorado County Sheriff Department.

[chartdog]

Even though I am in Law Enforcement, (almost retired, thank goodness), I would be the first to agree that some agencies can sure rub their public the wrong way. It is hard to decide because for every overbearing officer out there, there is at least one citizen who is an out of line whiner. Let's hope "we just all get along" as our trail continues to evolve and hopefully survives.

[Jeepndel]

Some things to note guys:
1. Law enforcement is essential to keeping our trail open. We have surveyed the Rubicon with GPS (County folks and FOTR). We know the center line of the trail. LE guys will know also.

2. We are putting up signs on the route (legal) AND the legal bypasses. Anything else will be off trail travel. Not good. The LE guys know it will take some time to get all of us in sync with the actual route and the legal bypasses. So some tolerance and understanding will be in effect. But not for blantant off trail romping around. We will lose our trail if we don't take care of it. If you are not seeing this around the country, then I suggest you look a little harder. Guys are crying in all the western states for trail losses. We ain't gonna let that happen. Law enforcement will help us keep our trail open. Common sense will be the rule of thumb.

3. FOTR and the Pirates clean up the trail every year -- several times. Many of us (you) clean up the trail every time we go. Spider is still a problem with folks leaving junk in campsites. We gotta get this situation cleaned up. Education is the key. If the anti-access folks see us as pigs, they'll find a way to fence us in.

Del