Disturbing E-Mail Re: Spider Lake

[jeeperrick]

I just recieved this e-mail and found it rather disturbing and I feel that we as a group of "RESPONSIBLE" people need to take action against those irresponsible few.

Memorandum
To: Mike Gray, El Dorado County Division of Airports Parks &Grounds
cc: Supervisor Jack Sweeney, Rich Platt, U.S. Forest Service, Mark Smith & the Rubicon Oversight
Committee
From: Steve Peterson and Eve Kliszewski
Date: Thursday, July 8, 2004
Re: Rubicon Trail Project - Recommendation to Close Public Access to Spider Lake
As you know, the ESP project team is currently completing resource evaluations of the Rubicon Trail
and adjacent, related recreational use areas. Our observations of resource abuse and environmental
impacts at the Spider Lake area over the past five weeks prompt us to provide you with interim
information and management recommendations.
Damage to Habitat
Our surveys of 2004 use of the Rubicon Trail in the vicinity of Spider Lake indicate that vehicles are
continually straying from the designated Trail and its variant, the Little Sluice Bypass, in the vicinity
of Spider Lake.
Specific impacts include sawing and burning of healthy, mature trees construction of numerous rock
fire rings, numerous oil spills, and vehicle track damage to a variety of habitats, including stream, wet
meadow and seasonal wetland areas adjacent to the Spider Lake outflow.
Feces and Garbage
We continue to observe increasing amounts of human feces, toilet paper and sanitary napkins at the
northern and northeastern shore of the Lake. This problem has gotten significantly worse since it
was first observed in May of this year, and has been exacerbated by the periodic use of a metal
outhouse that has been tipped over and righted in the past week.
The concentration of untreated, uncontrolled human waste generates a disgusting stench and poses a
significant health hazard.
ESP collected water quality samples in and adjacent to Spider Lake on July 1, 2004 (before the 4
th
of
the July weekend) and on July 6
th
to determine if these human waste impacts are evident in local
waters. We are awaiting the laboratory results of these investigations will transmit the conclusions of
this set of samples in the coming week.
Mr. Mike Gray
July 8, 2004
Page Two
Recommendations
Because of the nature and severity of resource damage occurring in the vicinity of Spider Lake, and
the potential for existing conditions to affect human health and safety, we urge the County to make a
formal recommendation to the U.S. Forest Service to institute an emergency forest closure in this
area. Specifically, we recommend that all federally controlled properties between the Rubicon Trail
and Spider Lake be closed to human access for the remainder of 2004.
Further, we encourage you to work with Mark Smith and other owners of private property adjacent
Spider Lake to limit public access to off-Trail areas for the remainder of this year.

I am looking for some sort of varification that this is indeed a bonafide e-mail.

[BEAR]

Wow
I wish more people could at least read that e-mail before entering the trail so they could see what an impact the few non-responsible ones are making and change their ways.
If this really comes to a head I would rather see the "box" and some surrounding areas closed rather than the whole trail.

Maybe this should be posted in other forums that get more traffic and help to spread the word and the seriousness of proper trail etiquette and tread lightly

[Keith]

Originally Posted by BEAR

Wow
I wish more people could at least read that e-mail before entering the trail so they could see what an impact the few non-responsible ones are making and change their ways.
If this really comes to a head I would rather see the "box" and some surrounding areas closed rather than the whole trail.

Maybe this should be posted in other forums that get more traffic and help to spread the word and the seriousness of proper trail etiquette and tread lightly

Much easier to close the entire trail rather try to keep people out of one area.

FWIW, like hikers in the back country dont make fire rings and go poddy too

[steveh]

Originally Posted by Keith

Much easier to close the entire trail rather try to keep people out of one area.

FWIW, like hikers in the back country dont make fire rings and go poddy too

It's not that they don't, it's the quanity of people is a lot less. A lot!

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by Keith

Much easier to close the entire trail rather try to keep people out of one area.

Bite your tongue pickle.....er pickle tongue?

[rockmup]

Anyone know who the esp project team is ? I'd also like to see a neutral group do the sampling.

We can and should send e-mails too. Lots of them

[ErikB]

Originally Posted by jeeperrick

I just recieved this e-mail...
I am looking for some sort of varification that this is indeed a bonafide e-mail.

I did a quick search and found this:
http://co.el-dorado.ca.us/Rubicon/Ph...t/Chapter8.pdf
The alleged authors are listed in that link above and work for this place:
http://www.esp.nu/

Seems fairly credible...?

Unfortunately, I don't think their observations are too far off base.

[ErikB]

FWIW, I'm starting to think that FOTR/ROC should allocate a big chunk of money for buying and giving away FREE do-it-yourself pack-it-in-pack-it-out shit-kits (or whatever the heck their called) at high-impact areas like Spider.

Get rid of the outhouses and put up a small shed instead that is kept stocked with free kits. Maybe once people start using them, they'll get used to it and keep doing it on their own...?
It could be like a mini-kiosk with info about the big "crappy" problem.

I think if they were readily/easily available and FREE, people would start using them.

Its definitely worth a try!?!?!!

[socalchef]

i made an offer to i think u-get-it to produce signs for the patrol group to post around spider lake to notify people to back up away from the waterline when camping...i never got a response, but the offer still stands for anything concerning trail maintenance like this. PM me and let me know the scope of what you want to do, what you want it to say, and the size and colors, and i'll get you some proofs. just pay for shipping, COD is fine with me. i'm really surprised i don't ever see any signs in pics of the trail. i'm supposed to go up a week before labor day, if it's not closed, i shoudl be able to stash some signs in my rig somewhere to bring them up.

[mikeswrangler]

ericb
that wouldent work .. but a good thought..
the only thing I can see is people taking them and tossing them in the water to see how much it would hold..
I know this was in the planing stage.. but I thought I heard del say that a permant potty was in the works?
can that be bumped up on the time frame?
why cant we anchor the one there to keep it from being dumped over ..

[UGET IT]

That effort was volunteery. Now it come to this, I cant see into the future. We'll fight this too.

[mtnbronco]

i understand all the comments here, but I'm concerned about the health issue too. Maybe we should test the water on a regular basis and compare it to the number of spider lake users. we need some information to help fight the problem. I sure do not want to swim a bacteria infested lake. I agree with others observations and have no desire to camp there now or even picnic.

[Brothergrim]

Even girlscouts know that you dig a hole and then poo in it. Why not make groovers for people. A 50cal ammo box with a trash bag in it you carry everthing with you and it is air tight.

[renolaw]

Couple years ago i acquired a PETT 'poo kit' and after much reluctance to really, really use it regularly, i gave it a try and i'm sold. Several 'oops' and other mishaps led to modified use of the product. We leave home the plastic 'stool' and after digging a hole, simply line it w/ the sanitary bag and interior chemical pouch. When finished, gather it all together like one might regularly do w/ the entire kit and into the slotted rec CA4WDC bag it goes. We've never had a bad smell. In fact, stale beer drippings are much more of an odor than the PRTT idea. Give it a try, the 'con is worth the effort.

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by rockmup

Anyone know who the esp project team is ? I'd also like to see a neutral group do the sampling.

We can and should send e-mails too. Lots of them

Waht you can do is join FOTR and sign up for one of the work parties this year.
If you have a Sponsor you can join the newly formed Trail Patrol.
Go to Sign me up for Friends of the Rubicon or FOTR info

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by mikeswrangler

ericb
that wouldent work .. but a good thought..
the only thing I can see is people taking them and tossing them in the water to see how much it would hold..
I know this was in the planing stage.. but I thought I heard del say that a permant potty was in the works?
can that be bumped up on the time frame?
why cant we anchor the one there to keep it from being dumped over ..

Actually that is not true. There has been no solution for a permanant potty yet. The reason being logistics. If someone could figure out a way to service the (I think) 500 gallon vault toilet. The FS would most likely put one in. The expense of that has been determined to be too high to helicopter the liquid. As mention previous, there is not enough soil for proper leaching for pitt toilets. The best solution is already in place, go buy a PETT or wagg bags and haul it out your self. Look in the near future to see a requirement for every "camp" to have one.

Think of the situation on MT Whitney with the influx of all the people that want to climb there. They gotta go too. Frozen doo was a problem so it is mandatory that if you climb, you take it back with you.

El Dl Co is also facing this with the rafting industry here. People are just jumping in the river to go. There is work being done there to make it mandatory for some kind of pack your poo. It may already be in place here.

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by socalchef

i made an offer to i think u-get-it to produce signs for the patrol group to post around spider lake to notify people to back up away from the waterline when camping...i never got a response, but the offer still stands for anything concerning trail maintenance like this. PM me and let me know the scope of what you want to do, what you want it to say, and the size and colors, and i'll get you some proofs. just pay for shipping, COD is fine with me. i'm really surprised i don't ever see any signs in pics of the trail. i'm supposed to go up a week before labor day, if it's not closed, i shoudl be able to stash some signs in my rig somewhere to bring them up.

Did you offer through Del or the ROC committee?

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by renolaw

Couple years ago i acquired a PETT 'shit kit' and after much reluctance to really, really use it regularly, i gave it a try and i'm sold. Several 'oops' and other mishaps led to modified use of the product. We leave home the plastic 'stool' and after digging a hole, simply line it w/ the sanitary bag and interior chemical pouch. When finished, gather it all together like one might regularly do w/ the entire kit and into the slotted rec CA4WDC bag it goes. We've never had a bad smell. In fact, stale beer drippings are much more of an odor than the PRTT idea. Give it a try, the 'con is worth the effort.

Standing up and clapping

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by UGET IT

That effort was volunteery. Now it come to this, I cant see into the future. We'll fight this too.

[Danger Ranger]

Originally Posted by cruzila

Waht you can do is join FOTR and sign up for one of the work parties this year.
If you have a Sponsor you can join the newly formed Trail Patrol.
Go to Sign me up for Friends of the Rubicon or FOTR info

something is up... I was receiving fotr emails and trail patrol sub-committe emails and then nothing... I dunno what's up?

my email is abeckstead@aol.com

[cruzila]

Did you try to email Del?

[BEAR]

Originally Posted by Danger Ranger

something is up... I was receiving fotr emails and trail patrol sub-committe emails and then nothing... I dunno what's up?

my email is abeckstead@aol.com

Same here

[Danger Ranger]

Originally Posted by cruzila

Did you try to email Del?

not about the problem... I've been gone and just realized this weekend that I wasn't getting emails by some of the conversations that got brought up.

I was already on the list though...

[greentj]

Originally Posted by Keith

FWIW, like hikers in the back country dont make fire rings and go poddy too

In high traffic backpacking areas like Yosemite NP, Lassen NP, etc. no backcountry fires are allowed during the dry season at the very least, if not all the time. And you are encouraged to pack out your own waste. Also, trails in rocky areas like parts of Utah, you are required to pack out your own waste.

My point is, in areas that see heavy backpacker usage, it is not uncommon to see fires banned and suggested packing out of human waste.

So I don't see it as a suprise that these same rules may become reality on a high usage OHV trail like the Con.

It sucks, but we have to deal with growing pains. I hope this can be solved without trail and land closures, and at the same time help preserve the clean water of Spider Lake and surrounding areas. (I like swimming in clean water as much as the next guy)

Other outdoor sports have had to deal with this sensitive subject and have prevailed, so I have confidence we 4wheelers will pull through in the future.

[Rubicrawler]

OMG! I hope this isn't true, but one of our member just got an email from a friend that has a friend in the El Dorado County Sup. office stating that the trail will be closed for 120 days Here's a copy of what he received:

"The Board just passed an emergency resolution Closing the Rubicon Spider Lake trail and Little Slough House trail for 120 days. They are going to police it by helicopter and deputy boat and foot patrol. I guess that people have totally abused the area with defecating all over the place and not picking up after themselves. People even built an out house on a rock and when it got full just picked up and moved it. "

I hope this isn't true but I've been told the source is very credible

Can anyone confirm or refute this?