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Information I believe to be true

2K views 15 replies 13 participants last post by  IMUZ ME 
#1 · (Edited)
The following is a list of bullets that I believe are true. I'm am not endorsing anything here. This is just some conclusions I have come to with my involvement at FOTR, in meetings, and so on. I was a "Ranter" as recently as 18 months ago. I began attending meetings and so on. I have a perspective today that is much different than 18 months ago. Do I know everything...no. Am I still learning...yes. Is everything below fact...probably not, but it is what I believe at this time. I decided to do this because I think people need a reality check.

*FOTR has much less power than most people believe.

*Many posting in this forum don't have all the information they need to speak intelligently.

*Understanding all the powers that be is extremely difficult without attending meetings for about a year...even more. I'm still learning new things

*The Forest Service cannot do anything to the trail without the County's okay.

*FOTR cannot do anything to the trail without the County's okay.

*The County listens to recommendation from the ROC which includes many groups...not just FOTR and off-roaders.

*The trail will be 'managed' until the Rubicon Trail Master Plan is in place. Managed meaning if there is a serious issue that must be addressed for whatever reason, it will be address. Yep...sluice is considered a serious issue.

*The explosives will likely be used again...why...they are cheap and fast.

*Sluice will be blown next spring...Attend the ROC meetings for a date. You may actually be able to influence how they are used and what goal the explosives would have.

*Most everyone agrees that Sluice should remain the toughest section on the trail. If has been historically and that likely will continue

*The ROC is the best place for information about what will happen on the trail relative to management or anything else

*Competition style rock crawling will not be in the future of the trail

*Fees and permits/user agreements likely will be in the future

*I don't believe there will be a licensed only vehicle rule

*I don't believe there will be a tire height restriction

*The FS will likely enforce the rule of not leaving the trail with your vehicle. You'll have to park along the trail and haul your gear in.

*The FS will expect you to know where you are on the map.

*The trail is 50 feet wide...some may have seen the reflectors near gatekeeper. These likely will be added throughout the trail.

*The official trail easment is in Grey on the FS Restriction map. Get the map by calling the forest service. They'll send it for free...or pick one up at a station.

*The Forest Service cannot close the Rubicon trail, but they can close everything surrounding to off road vehicles that is ENF. They have virtually done this already.

*Only the County can close the trail.

*No new trails will be added anywhere in the ENF until at least 2007 due to the current route designation process underway...it specifically excludes new routes pending completion of this process...sorry Bear.

*Much of the land along the Rubicon trail is private and out of the FS jurisdiction. See the checkered colored boxes on the restriction map...white is private land.

*John Berry, the Forest Supervisor, will likely close about 700 miles of non-system roads within the forest permanently.

*The only non-system roads that look to be allowed in the future are ones the public has complained about...yes the squeeky wheel....

*There are about 6-8 people that regularly carry the weight of FOTR and yes many meetings are a waste of thier time. It is amazing anyone continues to do this for free.

*Slamming each other on this forum is definitely hurting our cause and frankly makes people look silly.

*People should vent and discuss these "Slamming" issue within the FOTR email list...figure out how to get on it. It is not hard. Yes, there were some issues with the server and spamming, but there is no conspiracy to keep anyone off it.

*Don't be afraid to respond to the FOTR email list. Speak up!!

*Snow wheeling on FS routes is in jeopardy.

*Private land owners do have a say and should.

*There is no conspiracy by land owners like Mark Smith to control the trail. But they do have input and it is listened to. Yes, Mark would like to take his people through the Sluice. No, this desire will not cause the sluice to be blown up. It will be multiple factors.

*The long term surviveability of the trail will determine most future actions.

*If a section is an environmental issue or another issue, it likely will be altered, moved, managed and address...but not until there is an RTMP. Until then, bandaids will be used to get to the RTMP

*When an RTMP is done, way more management of the trail will begin... probably making the actions at gatekeeper look tiny.

*Post RTMP...will the trail still be a rock crawling trail? Yes, but it will be much different than today.

*Could there be new areas for "extreme" rock crawling...yes, it is possible, but it won't be in an environmentally sensitive area and likely on private land near the trail.

*Will the trail change in the next 5-10 years...yes. There will be a steady return to what the trail has been historically.

*Will owners of rigs with 42 inch tires be challenged on the future Rubicon...doubt it.

*Would I be building a buggie/trailered only rig for the purpose of going to the Rubicon trail exclusively...not right now.

*Could extreme rigs be accomodated on the Rubicon, yes. You'll have to speak up loudly after the RTMP is in place and push for an area or a piece of private land to allow it.


Again...I don't endorse everything here. This is just what I see coming based on my involvement over the past 18 months. In short...the actions at Gatekeeper are relatively insignificant to what I see coming in 5-10 years. If you are pissed about GK, you need to get involved. If you want to be heard, you need to stand side by side with the 6-8 people and speak up. If you don't do this, I must say...you have nothing to bitch about.

Marlon
 
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#2 ·
Good bullets, Marlon.

Congrats on your conversion from ranter to worker -- I converted about when FOTR started, but my conversion continues as I find that there is ALWAYS more to learn. That's perhaps our biggest battle -- the folks that have been 'wheeling and maintaining the trail for decades have good information to share, as do the various agency staffers, but it is tough to assemble enough info to make a truly informed decision. With individual agendas and historic working (or not) relationships, it is tough to get every side of the multi-faceted story.

FOTR has much less power than most people believe.
Yup. Broad support, but little power.
Formalizing the ROC and RTMP will formalize how FOTR can influence the process. The RTMP is the framework that will guide trail management, and even with its flaws, is better than where we are today, where the County gets to decide what happens on the trail based on the opinions it chooses to hear. Accountability and transparency will continue to be suspect until the RTMP gets approved.

Randii
 
#4 ·
Awesome, the only thing I question is the 50 feet wide trail. The easement is 50 feet wide, the trail itself should only be 8-10 feet wide.

Although I've never done it, but I was under the impression that the True Sluice (Old Sluce) was a pretty tough section of trail.

Marlon, tne more I hear from you the more I respect your opinion.






.
 
#5 ·
Simple Man said:
Although I've never done it, but I was under the impression that the True Sluice (Old Sluce) was a pretty tough section of trail.
Marlon, tne more I hear from you the more I respect your opinion.
.
Yes the Old/True Sluice was the most difficult section of the Rubicon Trail, until the big Rocks started to appear.

Rich
 
#7 · (Edited)
Simple Man said:
Awesome, the only thing I question is the 50 feet wide trail. The easement is 50 feet wide, the trail itself should only be 8-10 feet wide.
Doug,

I was really thinking easement...or where the FS/Private land officially begins. The two-track actually would be about 8-10 feet...yes.

Thanks for the kind words.

Marlon
 
#12 · (Edited)
I'd like to clarify a few things I know to be true too.

NOTPRETTY said:
*The trail is 50 feet wide...some may have seen the reflectors near gatekeeper. These likely will be added throughout the trail.
The trail is narrower than the easement. All intents are for it to stay that way. The EASEMENT is 25 off center.

*There is no conspiracy by land owners like Mark Smith to control the trail. But they do have input and it is listened to. Yes, Mark would like to take his people through the Sluice. No, this desire will not cause the sluice to be blown up. It will be multiple factors.
It is my understanding JJUSA ia content to continue to use bypass to the Sluice.

*When an RTMP is done, way more management of the trail will begin... probably making the actions at gatekeeper look tiny.
Just want to emphasize this.

If you want to be heard, you need to stand side by side with the 6-8 people and speak up. If you don't do this, I must say...you have nothing to bitch about.

Marlon
Right on!! We don't all have to agree on every little issue. We never will, that is why this is the United States of America.
We do however have to keep the friendly fire under control.

Scott
 
#14 ·
Marlon's Bullet Points and Involvement

I would hope many folks will cut/paste Marlon's comments (bullets) around other boards as well as this one. AWESOME job, my man. Wow. When you see what Marlon cranked out FROM EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE and FIRST HAND experience at meetings and such, you see a man who is commited to helping keep this trail open, alive and well -- not just a typist on the Internet.

thank you Marlon. Now we can all take short cuts to better understanding the whole situation because of your work here.

Del
 
#15 · (Edited)
Very good post Marlon.
I definitely dont agree with some of your assumptions, but your assesment of the overall situation is concise and enlightening. Thanks for taking all of the time you have needed to educate yourself to this point and to relay it to the rest of us.
One thing that isnt mentioned, is that the State of Ca could actually wield as much or more power, than the County or even the feds, if it were to be determined that their water supply really is being adversely affected. Everybody (County, private, municipal, CalTrans,...everyone)answers to the State, if they determine that someones dirt is getting into thier water.
I would think that all future projects should at least take into consideration, the results of potentialy showing up on the radar of the States Water Quality District.
Everyones, trail modification wish list, would surely be hampered if a WDID # were assigned to the trail, and a SWPPPs program implemented.
Just some food for thought. Its not uncommon at all for us to pay upwards of $40k to $80k a month on BMPs to stay compliant with the EPA,DFG, Army Corp and the State on disturbed terrain projects.
Places where their is flowing water, could be especialy impacted.
 
#16 ·
Awsome points, very informative.
I think that people should remember that the Rubicon historically hasn't been an "exteme" trail. It offered some good challanges for old skool rigs on 29's and 31's when 33's was a "huge" tire. The rubicon is a great place to get out have a little fun behind the wheel, do some good camping, drinking with the buddies and just general relaxing. Granted driving the trail in what I call a "point and shoot" rig may get boring to some, but "extreme" wheeling isn't what it is all about. I think a lot of people lost track of that!

But, again thanks for all the info!!
 
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