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How does the plan for the Rubicon jive with all the other trails?

1K views 15 replies 8 participants last post by  randii 
#1 · (Edited)
Been out of action for a couple of years and trying to catch up. On the surface, it would appear that very little has changed ... I apologize if I'm rehashing old ideas, but I somehow don't think that's the case.

I've just read through Randii's "Standard" rig thread and I'm left with a lot of thoughts and questions. But rather than post to an overly long and ego-filled argument (yes I know that's imflammatory), I thought I'd post a new question and idea here.

How should the Rubicon fit into the structure of trails throughout the Sierra and even the western United States? It is often touted as the "hardest" or "most famous" or "benchmark" or even "best" trail. But really - it's just another trail that has suffered because of overuse. I think the issues of what size tires, or how many lockers, or my-grandmother-can-drive-better-than-your-grandmother is completely missing the point.

Whether you go to the Rubicon to go fishing/camping, drinking with friends, entertainment at LS and others, maintain the trail or because it's some sort of holy grails of all trails (hey a rhyme!) you're still using a trail that is in fact no different than Fordyce, Barrett, Dusy, etc. They are all 4x4 designated routes with beautiful scenery and some challenging terrain.

None of them are more special than the others. So why are people placing the emphasis on making the Rubicon so much better than the rest? History? Maybe. Ego? For sure. Because it's a sign of all that is to come in terms of trail usage? Quite possibly.

But the fact is, in spite of (and partially because of) the gates and seasonal closure Dusy and Barrett are better trails. Sorry, it's true. They're clean, trail boundaries are respected (no idiotic bypasses) and they haven't attracted what I like to think of as "a bunch of punks from Sac who built up they're extreme (read: cheap) Toys and like to party on the 'con". (And before I get in trouble, let me say that stereotypes have to come from somewhere - you don't have to be a part of that crowd just because you look like you do. :flipoff2:)

Seems to me that if the Rubicon is "dumbed-down" or restricted than one of two things will happen. Either the "idiots" will find somewhere else to go (hence moving the battle - or intensifying it at Fordyce), or they will stay on the Rubicon and just create bigger problems (creating a greater need for strict enforcement and driving the rest of us away).

(Ok... I'm losing focus... need an edit.)

Personally, I don't care what an ideal Rubicon vehicle is. I think teaching people how to "drive" should be applied to parking ramps as much as trails. I think "old timers vs. young punks" is too devisive.

I want a place I can go hang out with my friends, drink a few beers, maybe catch a fish and enjoy life at 7000'. The rig gets me there. I can have fun staying on a 12' wide trail and take entirely different lines than a less experienced driver in a less equipped vehicle. Huh... just described a trip through Dusy or Barrett...

And when I want to break my rig, I go to Johnson Valley or Hollister (what is it about that place???).

I would like to see the Rubicon maintained to a level that will attract people who care about the trail - "extreme" or otherwise. Frankly, I don't care if those people are "yuppies" driving RAV4s (If nothing else, the quality of free beer for aiding in trail fixes will improve.)

I think that whatever we do, we de-emphasize the Rubicon as the "ultimate" trail and instead make it just another great trail.

Thanks for reading my rambling.

Paul

EDIT: Forgot to make the point that whether we like it or not, the solution for the Rubicon will a guideline for how other trails throughout the west are managed in the future. Think about that as you think about how you want the Rubicon to be.
 
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#3 ·
Good to hear you are still out there, Paul!

Rubicon is special in the minds of many of its users, and those who dream of driving it. Rubicon may once have been the toughest of all trails, but certainly other trails have surpassed it in difficulty. Regardless, the trail is romanticized and well-publicized. From the outside, Rubicon is a high-value target for closurists because of that well-published image.

Rubicon is unique in terms of jurisdiction: it is an 'unmaintained county road' that crosses two national forests, two counties, two state water districts, and multiple chunks of private property, with varying easements and claims throughout. Confusion about which rules get enforced by whom sadly have made Rubicon attractive to a minoriy of irresponsible 'wheelers that cause the majority of problems. Enhanced enforcement on Rubicon has pushed some of these irresponsible 'wheelers to Fordyce and other places. Good for Rubicon, bad for the other trails, and overall, bad for the hobby.

FWIW, I'd like to see as much organization, volunteerism, and commitment for every other trail you mentioned. These efforts set an example that other trails might follow for best continued access. Other trails (Dusy-Ershim and Barret) set a good example of how seasonal management works, but Rubicon is probably the single-most well-volunteered trail in existence.

I'm aware -- and concerned -- that Rubicon's managment plan may be used as a cookie-cutter by other agencies, but we need to push for the best plan we can find locally, regardless. The Rubicon is what it is, and we have the same management hurdles with the agencies and closurists, regardless of whether we deem it as the "ultimate" trail or not. FWIW, working that plan is how we wind up discussing maintenance standards, seasonal restrictions, and enforcement guidelines... everyone that I know would rather be 'wheeling!

I want a place I can go hang out with my friends, drink a few beers, maybe catch a fish and enjoy life at 7000'. The rig gets me there.
Ditto. I finally got my rig back running and I aim to drown a lot of bait and burn a lot of vacation days this year in the high country.

Randii
 
#5 ·
Welcome back Paul.

One thing about the Rubicon that you missed. It is a world renouned trail. It quite possibly is where the birth of 4 wheeling as we know it today occured.

You could not go to Japan or Germany and find any recognition of other Sierra trails. Heck, I'd even hazzard a guess that Califonian wheelers don't know about some of the trails in the Sierras. I know I knew of the Rubicon and its reputation way before I heard of other trails.

Scott
 
#6 · (Edited)
Hi Scott,

You're right - I should have included that in my thinking. But I'm curious what "reputation" you heard of the Rubicon and what you think it is today.

There's no discounting fame. I've walked across the famous bridges in Europe (Ponte Vecchio, Bridge of Sighs, Tower Bridge, etc) and they're really just a bridge over water. Grand Canyon? Big hole in the ground. San Francisco's Pier 39? Waste of money. And all are worth going to just because they're famous.

But I would think we would want to draw people to the trail for it's beauty and reputation as the "birth of 4 wheeling" rather than to party with the big boys.

Randii - I know that the trail is unique in its jurisdiction, but I think we're kidding ourselves to think that arrangements made here aren't mimiced in other trails all over. Especially if trails that are legal for 4-wheelin' become more rare than they already are.

Paul
 
#7 ·
We're not kidding ourselves that the plan put in place will be followed elsewhere... really, we're not. Almost every time any group gathers, someone always asks: is this something for which I'd really like to be remembered?

Honestly, it is sort of scary -- if we screw this up, in the worst case, will we screw up every other motorized opportunity? Speaking for myself, I try to stay aware of this, but not focused on it -- I think we need to model the process of trying to work the issues of this specific trail, jurisdiction, and user group and not get lost in 'the bigger picture.' Consider it, sure, but plan as best we can for the Rubicon, and hope that others who look to our plan as a template will see that THEY need to consider THEIR OWN trail, jurisdiction, and user group.

Randii
 
#9 ·
Rubicon: Setting the Example

The reality of the Rubicon Trail and our Master Plan we have going on, is that the whole world IS watching us -- all of us. And this concept of such a concerted effort over one trail is hugely unique in all the wheeling world. No where else has a ROC group or Foundation been established over just one trail. Yup, it's the Rubicon -- so it's the icon of wheeling. But it's still just one trail. So the eyes are on us.

I use the Rubicon example in all my travels and speeches as a BlueRibbon Ambassador -- all over the country. I use the FOTR group as the prime example of what can be done with no big budgets; no meetings (except one a year) and good leadership. You have folks *working* for you in FOTR and the RTF that are awesome works of art! Working without pay. They are representing us as best they can, using the input you give them here and on the FOTr list and on other Boards and lists.

yea, it's not perfect. Neither is democracy. But what we have is setting the example for other trails -- and trails to come. So while sometimes we get frustrated with the process, I for one, never lose sight of our job: to keep the Rubicon Trail alive and well and open for all, in perpetuity.
Del
 
#10 ·
another question..
has the efforts that the group in whole helped the spider lake issue yet??
it seems to me that as hard as the group tries to come up with the answer it seems to be beat down .. what if .. I know this might be a bad idea.. but its worth a try..
can we get some of the oppisition to come to a get together..
and ask flat out what can we do to make it fair for both sides..
I for one am getting worried that if something is not changed in the way of the whole picture is looked at then we will have more problems than answers..
sure the group has done a very good job as to the maintance side of the trail.. but for the other problems.. its hard to see any real soulitions for those that like to abuse the trail..
I am not just talking about the pack it in-pack it out poo problem either..

I for one want a nice trail to go to without the drunk people who cant control themselfs and do stupid things to show off in front of thier friends

anyway getting back to my main thought..

I want to know if thier is a happy middle between the parties involved here..
can we all sit out of the county courts or county places.. and have a big get together and peacefuly try to see eye to eye??

and have local law enforcement there to remove the ones that disrupt or disturb the process??

I am like alot of others..I want a place to enjoy the senery, wildlife,nature,and the quiet to hear the water in the streems..
but I know that it will not be perfect because I am not the only one who uses the trail

my thought and question

mike
 
#11 ·
Even if, even if, there never was an issue at Spider. Even if, the county never made the declaration about sanitation. Spider would be closed now.

The lawsuit filed against EDNF and the release of the new OHV rule by the Forest Service at a national level, closes spider to OHV travel.

Go to: Schedule of proposed actions on this list is a project at Spider to rehab the area.

So to answer the question, Yes we made an impact but were in turn impacted by another action beyond out control.

Scott
 
#12 ·
Spider Lake Restoration
DM
- Wildlife, Fish, Rare plants
- Watershed management
- Recreation management
- Heritage resource management Completed Actual: 12/15/2005 07/2006 Jennifer Ebert
530-647-5437
jebert@fs.fed.us
Description: Restore resource damage from unauthorized motor vehicle use in the dispersed camping area at Spider Lake. Scarify impacted ground to break up soil compaction, revegetate impacted areas, mulch with native materials & rice straw.
Location: UNIT - Pacific Ranger District. STATE - California. COUNTY - El Dorado. El Dorado County, Pacific RD, Spider Lake area.
 
#13 ·
well thats what I was talking about.. its hard to play chess when the rules keep changing..

I know that we all need to protect the enviroment... I know that we all want to do what is good for the whole trail.. but sometimes we end up hurting it more than if we let it ride..

but on the other hand.. I agree on the sanitation issue 100% that was a real big issue and for those that went out and helped on that issue my hats off to you alll..

I just feel that if we overprotect anything we get lost in the good of the whole..

I just know that there is a compromise in the whole issue but what it is I have no clue ..
so in closing..

I feel that if we over protect something that we love we hurt it more than if we let it manage its self..
 
#14 ·
mikeswrangler said:
... but sometimes we end up hurting it more than if we let it ride.
Agreed, but the agencies are not really allowing the let-it-ride option. Judge Karlton's recent judgement tossed out the old Forest Transportation Plan and forces a re-interpretation with the designation process, mixed in with the new Final Rule (national-level). Add to this the changes on Rubicon (El Dorado County taking more active role, formalized easements, changing property ownership, etc.), and the political environment changes, even if the trail stayed the same (which it does not). Though NEPA process requires presentation of a No-Change alternative, no such alternative really exists for Rubicon.

The rules, agencies, owners, and politics are all in flux, ever-changing. We've gotta change to fit them, one way or another. Many of those changes amount to over-protection, IMHO, but we've still gotta find a way to work within them. THE TRAIL can and will manage itself, in spite of every external intervention... Mother Nature is much bigger than we are. OUR ACCESS is a different thing, and unfortunately the agencies and policies have greater impact and less predictability than Mother Nature.

Randii
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
edited to fix the quote and distill the language back in tow spots (two words) to better fit the PG guidelines of this forum -- Randii

Rubicon is unique in terms of jurisdiction: it is an 'unmaintained county road' that crosses two national forests, two counties, two state water districts, and multiple chunks of private property, with varying easements and claims throughout. Confusion about which rules get enforced by whom sadly have made Rubicon attractive to a minoriy of irresponsible 'wheelers that cause the majority of problems. Enhanced enforcement on Rubicon has pushed some of these irresponsible 'wheelers to Fordyce and other places. Good for Rubicon, bad for the other trails, and overall, bad for the hobby
My 2 cents for whats its worth,

I have been occasionally going on the "con" for over the last 15 years, and for the last 7 years or so it has been less and less, {new family}. Last September I went with my good Friend in his Samurai and had a great time until the Friday evening started approaching. Then someone left the gate open and almost every moron with half a brain decided they needed to get to somewhere in a big hurry. This older guy {maybe in his 50's} snapped an axle coming out of the trail in an old C-J 5 and some punk kid with the stereo blasting some "kill your family" type music just drove over his front tire and up the the rock on the right. Yelling at the kid didn't seem to help being he ignored us or couldn't hear over the head banging crap. With a "pirate" sticker on his tailgate, I suspect that he bought the sticker rather than earned it.

My point being, I love going on the trail and having a great time with friends. If the choice had to be made to take my kids on the trail I would think twice. With jerks like the one's we encountered, I would hate to think my kids would have to be life flighted out because someone lost there patience.

Is it posible that these type of reasons is why the Rubicon is target of closure? Is it, people loosing life and limbs becouse some think that drinking and driving is cool.

It is easier to point out the problems than to find solutions. Is it posible to "charge admission" to help weed out the kids who spent all there money on beer? Maybe the money can go to the great people who defend the trails at meetings and help keep them clean, Or to the sherrifs dept. who help keep it safe so all of our kids can grow up wheelin like I got too.
 
#16 ·
Good stuff... and your two cents is very welcome.

It is tough to really separate why Rubicon is being targeted. There are lots of reasons, running from drinking and lawlessness to resource damage to management changes to population increases. Each may be the chicken or egg to the other... hard to say. We see grey-hairs and youngsters exercising their stoopid gene -- you can't really pick an idiot out by age, make, or model. Thankfully, there were fewer yahoos getting their stupid on in '05 than in the few previous years.

Randii
 
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