Today was my fourth ROC meeting.
It was a nice surprise to see that every person present was considered equal in "status". That was a huge improvement from the less than warm reception of some past meetings. I've been doing some reading about the CEQA Process since I got back. It's been a good learning experience.
I'd still like to get Tom alone .:mad3: I think the whole filter idea is lost on him and a few weeks on the trail would do him good.
Today was my first Definately a good learning experience and I would recommend that anyone who cares about the trail to try and show up. Much more involved than I thought with much more stuff going on than you will get here on the pbb. I will try to get my ass up there more often, but that probably wont happen since they are always during the week.
I'm not TDO, but I was there today with them. It was my first one so I didn't get to experience the earlier meetings, but I liked being able to have my voice heard, even though it may not mean much at the end of the day. I would agree with OS, I think Tom and some of the others need a "hands on " experience with the trail to be a little more objective.
I haven't worked with Tom a lot, but when I have, he's been great. Very flexible, well-informed, and able to help navigate the political seas...
That said, I bet he'd be tickled to ride along on a day trip, to truly experience the trail the way we use it. I know he's been to the Little Sluice on foot, but I'm not sure he's ridden or driven it...
The ride-alongs I have been involved with have all been a good experience, and have resulted in better working relationships with all in attendance. Good idea, Bob!
This was my first ROC meeting, so I tried to stay quiet as best I could....
I feel it is a lot like other meeting, where there are way too many ajendas, and not enough action
I am planning on making the ROC meeting a regular thing...work permitting, of course, and I will make my opinions known
Today was more of a learning experience, and I think I have a pretty good grasp on what's going on.
Hopefully we can get some stuff done....... in our favor:beer:
If any of you plan on attending the next or future meetings of ROC. Here is a little crib sheet for the many acronyms used throughout the meeting.
CEQA: California Environmental Quality Act
CERES: The California Environmental Resource Evaluation System.
ESP: Environmental Stewardship & Planning INC
RTMP: Rubicon Trail Master Plan
NOP: Notice of Preparation
EIR: Environmental Impact Report
BOS: Board of Supervisors
DOT: Department of Transportation
LEO Law Enforcement Officer
SMUD Sacramento Municipal Utilities District.
Downloading the RTMP and giving a good read will help you better understand the meeting.
It was great to see AJC, TDO, FOTR, and RTF working together with DOT, EDC, LEO, and USFS at the ROC meeting. I wasn't too thrilled with the ESP planned EIR NOP for CEQA compliance, but IMHO these are necessary steps to getting the BOS to approve a RTMP that's our best bet for continuing OHV and 4x4 access. :grinpimp:
I can make sense of the alphabet soup, but it still hurts my brain to read the RTMP... and I work with ESL Taiwan, Singapore, Indian, and Philippino engineers at the day job! :laughing:
It was great to see AJC, TDO, FOTR, and RTF working together with DOT, EDC, LEO, and USFS at the ROC meeting. I wasn't too thrilled with the ESP planned EIR NOP for CEQA compliance, but IMHO these are necessary steps to getting the BOS to approve a RTMP that's our best bet for continuing OHV and 4x4 access. :grinpimp:
I can make sense of the alphabet soup, but it still hurts my brain to read the RTMP... and I work with ESL Taiwan, Singapore, Indian, and Philippino engineers at the day job! :laughing:
That said, I bet he'd be tickled to ride along on a day trip, to truly experience the trail the way we use it. I know he's been to the Little Sluice on foot, but I'm not sure he's ridden or driven it...
Good idea Randy. I wonder if we could get another field trip together like the LEO one we did in 2004, only this time for some of the county/ROC folks. This would be a fantastic opportunity to discuss specific trail maintenance areas at each actual problem area on the trail rather than in a meeting room.
It would not be too early to start planning this now for early summer. Randy, do you think it's worth me calling Dan and getting it on the agenda for the Feb ROC meeting? I'm game to help organize...
I've attended meeting with these groups and individuals several times and feel I have a pretty good understand of what motivates each of them, what they want to protect/defend and what they hope to achieve/get another interested party to accept. Without understanding this, you really can't follow accurately the goings-on in these meetings.
For example element 8 and 9 are essentially about carrying capacity and vehicle counts...This is where the FS and FOTR/JJ/users will square off. Other issues will put the county at odds with the FS...still others will put the users at odds with the county. If you understand each of these, you'll quickly see you eventually have to compromise and work to the middle to achieve anything. And you learn that being bull-headed and inflexible achieves nothing and will result in the county/fS/agencies leaving us out of the RTMP process entirely. No we don't have much of a leg to stand on. If I felt going postal with public protest and anarchy would benefit us in the long run, I'd push for that in a second, but I just don't see it. Not what I want to hear either, but it is what it is. Realistically, the best we can hope for is to steer the process at given moments...like Elements 6, 6A, 8 and 9. It appears as if they are listen to us one these elements...I may be proven wrong in the end.
My advice is to ask questions...don't be passive regardless of age or perceived importance. Yes, to learn what motivates each party you need to completely understand the issues being fought over. There are several...more than just the RTMP. It is time consuming. But, when you come out the other end you'll have gained value and power in the process. Imagine if we had 25 more butts on our side that could intelligently and constructively debate for our goals and steer the process. Yes, there is strength in numbers. We need you. I hope people stick it out. Keep coming. Learn, speak up regardless of their past attendance, find the time away from work and family do what it takes to add one more butt on our side of the field.
Ra ra ra...I'm done cheerleading now.
:beer:
PS...the alphabet soup is half the battle. Start there.
Just quoting that, to make it official. :flipoff2:
Definitely worth dropping a line to Dan to put it on the agenda... this should be as simple as picking a date, well in advance, and juggling passengers vs. seats available. I'll be there with a spare seat, and I'm game to tote a BBQ along to help with lunch.
This will help them understand the hobby, will help us discuss the issues better with the trail right ther in front of us, and should help us be less adversarial within the agency and volunteer team... GREAT concept, IMHO!
We could conceivably even take it one step further, and make an overnight trip out of it, although the preplanning would grow immensly, it could pay off, since the rubicon experience is more than driving the trail...
We could conceivably even take it one step further, and make an overnight trip out of it, although the preplanning would grow immensly, it could pay off, since the rubicon experience is more than driving the trail...
I don't have a running rig, but I would be willing to help in whatever capacity I can to help out a ride along.
NOTPRETTY said:
My advice is to ask questions...don't be passive regardless of age or perceived importance. Yes, to learn what motivates each party you need to completely understand the issues being fought over. There are several...more than just the RTMP. It is time consuming. But, when you come out the other end you'll have gained value and power in the process. Imagine if we had 25 more butts on our side that could intelligently and constructively debate for our goals and steer the process. Yes, there is strength in numbers. We need you. I hope people stick it out. Keep coming. Learn, speak up regardless of their past attendance, find the time away from work and family do what it takes to add one more butt on our side of the field.
PS...the alphabet soup is half the battle. Start there.
This is great advice, although I didn't follow it completely, I definitely need to understand the RTMP better. Even though I spoke up, I felt like I tasted shoe leather once or twice from being uninformed, I will study the RTMP and meetings better in the future, and encourage those thinking of attending to follow NOTPRETTY's advice.
Bear...please... If your directing that comment at me about the politicians it not only pisses me off, but shows how much you really don't get what FOTR/user groups can realistically accomplish much less pay for. There is very little participation and even less money. We, all the users groups, are bent over a rail and getting hosed and there is not much we can do about it except smile and hope someone begins to feel sorry for us. You can walk away and say it is a lost cause and then scream from the sidelines, but please don't F'ing bitch at the people still fighting to get their voice heard when they know the steam-roller is coming but still have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out and fight to the last man.
I'd suggest you read the RTMP again...what has happened to date is peanuts to what will happen and frankly it won't be the fault of the people fighting to be heard...it will be the fault of those that gave up fighting.
Some ponts in the current RTMP to be vary concerned about...200 vehicles per day max(Think what that would do to JJ's anual event), Permits you have to pay for and request in advance in writing to enter the trail, parking your vehicle at the side of the trail and pack all your gear in to a camp spot, many closed camping areas which will be defined as environmentally sensitive, restrictions on noise levels, 15 mph speed limit, smog requirements enforced, forget about any vehicle that isn't registered, traffic only allowed to go in one direction, no shooting firearms within 1/2 mile of the trail, restrictions on helocopter flights over the trail, on-going water and soil evaluations and I haven't even mentioned the method and standards by which the county will maintain the trail...I can go on, but damn...this is what we are up against and no one driving the process is required to listen to a damn thing the users say. The people trying to be heard are just hoping they get heard and are grabbing at anything remotely steerable in our direction. This makes it look like they are giving away the farm when in reality they are just begging to get 200 vehicles to 250 or even a dream of 300. So please lighten up on the people making the effort. You may not agree with what they are doing or how they are going about it, but they are trying without pay (despite your suggestions) and sacrificing their family and personal time to do it.
Huh..............................
Re-read what I said.:shaking:
I thank everyone that dedicates time and energy to the fight (I myself have been doing it for years) but I find it sad that "we" have to play the politics game and fight just to enjoy our hobby.
Definitely worth dropping a line to Dan to put it on the agenda... this should be as simple as picking a date, well in advance, and juggling passengers vs. seats available.
Thanks for setting me straight, and sorry Bob! :cool2:
Darn it, I guess it's too late to go edit the post and back out now. j/k
I'll get it on the Agenda for Feb and go from there. I suspect it will be best to not attempt to set a date until the Feb meeting, to discuss weekday vs weekend, or even just doing the ROC meeting on the trail (I kind of like that idea since the ROC folks are already committed - at least for 1/2 the day). At any rate the rest of planning can move forward, so stay tuned...
Good idea Randy. I wonder if we could get another field trip together like the LEO one we did in 2004, only this time for some of the county/ROC folks. This would be a fantastic opportunity to discuss specific trail maintenance areas at each actual problem area on the trail rather than in a meeting room.
In the last decade, few large projects have been undertaken, and little maintenance has been done. Rocks were pried into Little Sluice, rocks were chucked out of Gatekeeper, drainages hopped out of their banks... and little was done. Doing nothing has snow-balled ... I'd argue that doing nothing has forced the issue.
Timely small responses might have minimized the monkey-see, monkey-do silliness that left us with large messes to clean up at Gatekeeper, Walker Hill, Little Sluice, and etc.
Doing NOTHING then made the agencies believe we wouldn't act in the future. Doing NOTHING now isn't an option anymore.
Aside from the comments posted above, they are going to do something no matter what... This way we can help focus them to the things WE want, rather than what THEY see as the problem. (And when I say WE - you, and anyone else who wants, can be part of the WE).
Well said! Doing nothing has gotten us where we are today and now we're playing catch-up. Taking ownership of the trail takes commitment from each of us! That means identifying potential problem areas and repairing them before they become a real problem.
Kevie Ray- if you haven't already, I would encourage you to sign up on the Rubicon Trail Home Page, www.delalbright.com/Rubicon/rubicon.htm, so you will get the latest up to date information. We need as many people with strong voices as we can get
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