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Clean Air Vehicles and RTMP

1K views 24 replies 16 participants last post by  76K5Blazer 
#1 ·
Any thoughts on including some type of provision (say free season long permits on the Rubicon) for clean air vehicles? You know, like LPG ;)

Looks like whoever organizes this may be elegible for state incentives like $$$ funding for such a program!

Wouldn't this be a great program for everybody.... for gubment, wheelers, the environment, trail reputation, etc.

--Josh
 
#3 ·
Josh- I think a program such as this that promotes environmentally responsible 4-wheeling and has some Grant $$$ behind it is a very good thing. Especially in California! Clean Air Vehicles are becoming more popular on the highway, why not the Rubicon Trail?:cool2:
 
#4 ·
Rubicrawler said:
Josh- I think a program such as this that promotes environmentally responsible 4-wheeling and has some Grant $$$ behind it is a very good thing. Especially in California! Clean Air Vehicles are becoming more popular on the highway, why not the Rubicon Trail?:cool2:

I think it would be a good idea too. One of the items I hear about periodically is how the exhaust is killing the vegatation or turning it brown on the side of the trail (I personally think it's all of the dust, but greenies will come up with anything to throw a wrench in our spokes). Now is this true about the exhaust turning the vegatation brown?? I don't know because I'm not a plant scientist, but running clean air vehicles(if not all vehicles at least a large majority) would put us a step ahead of that argument if and when it ever came up.

just my $.02
 
#5 ·
76cjeep said:
I think it would be a good idea too. One of the items I hear about periodically is how the exhaust is killing the vegatation or turning it brown on the side of the trail (I personally think it's all of the dust, but greenies will come up with anything to throw a wrench in our spokes). Now is this true about the exhaust turning the vegatation brown?? I don't know because I'm not a plant scientist, but running clean air vehicles(if not all vehicles at least a large majority) would put us a step ahead of that argument if and when it ever came up.

just my $.02
Other than cleaner emmisions I don't know what the effects are on plants, animals, smart people, dumb people etc. :)

I do know I would not want any... ANY :mad3: restrictions made to other vehicles... I'm just saying lets start exploring ways we can get MORE access.

This may be an opportunity that has benefits for local organizations, local gubment, and me... a wheeler.
 
#6 ·
The problem with your idea, ever try to smog a propane powered rig in California? From what I hear it is darn near impossible. With that being the case do you really think they will consider you a clean air vehicle? Now if you had a bed full of batteries, wait now we are looking at toxic lead and acid!! The only way the tree huggers will be happy is when we are completely off of the trail.

My .02 worth. Sorry if I burst your bubble.
 
#7 · (Edited)
82toycrawler said:
The problem with your idea, ever try to smog a propane powered rig in California? From what I hear it is darn near impossible. With that being the case do you really think they will consider you a clean air vehicle? Now if you had a bed full of batteries, wait now we are looking at toxic lead and acid!! The only way the tree huggers will be happy is when we are completely off of the trail.

My .02 worth. Sorry if I burst your bubble.
Uh, it takes a lot to burst my bubble. :D You are making assumptions though you haven't tried it... Good questions though... I'm sure there are programs and procedures for converting to propane and natural gas. The Federal site I posted shows them as acceptable fuels.

I happen to have a pre-smog vehicle, but if there were in fact incentives and I had a later model vehicle I'd make damn sure I put a little effort into trying to figure out how to do it. People in CA can drop a Ford 302 HO into a toyota and get it smogged so there has to be a way... You can't just presume it can't be done.

And I'm not really talking about the tree hugers. Fuk them. I'm talking about a program to benefit the trail, trail management, and trail users. We can leverage the greenie crap for our benefit.
 
#8 ·
I saw plenty of LPG powered vehicles in California on the roads when I lived there. I see plenty of them here in Arizona too. I'm thinking you haven't looked hard enough into it ;)
 
#9 ·
First, If you check with DMV regarding smog exemptions, there are exemptions for Natural Gas, Electric and Diesel powered vehicles from biennial smog testing, nothing for propane. This means that you will have to get smog tested every other year.
Second, when you try to find a propane kit nobody that I could find makes a kit with a California E.O. #. This means that when you go in for the test you are automatically going to fail the visual portion of the test because you have modified your vehicle in an unapproved manner.
I know propane burns cleaner, however this great state, for whatever reason, doesn't make it user friendly to run your vehicle on.:barf:
Search this site and others and I am sure that you will find what I am saying to be true when it comes to converting a gas powered vehicle to propane.
 
#10 ·
Well at least it a good thought.

oh well good ole california
 
#12 ·
Aren't most vehicles that run propane (like PGE Trucks) duel fuel system vehicles. There was a program in Arizona, for converting vehicles to duel fuel, my Bro-inlaw did his motorhome that way.

Rich
 
#13 ·
82toycrawler said:
First, If you check with DMV regarding smog exemptions, there are exemptions for Natural Gas, Electric and Diesel powered vehicles from biennial smog testing, nothing for propane. This means that you will have to get smog tested every other year.


DMV smog website said:
Fuel Type: Only vehicles fueled by gasoline, natural gas, and propane are currently included in the Smog Check program. Light-duty diesel vehicles are excluded.

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage...hicle_Inspection_Report_Glossary-May_1996.htm


btw NPG has to be smoged just like propane and gasoline....


I will keep digging to find something abotu converting a engine to propane. I know I have seen something on it.
 
#14 ·
What sux is that it is not the emissions that fawk us, it is the water quality laws that are in effect.

I am thinking we need to take advantage of the American Disiabilities Act. That 800lb gorilla might be able to take on the 800lb water quality gorilla.

Does liver damage count as a disability?:D
 
#15 ·
82toycrawler said:
Second, when you try to find a propane kit nobody that I could find makes a kit with a California E.O. #. This means that when you go in for the test you are automatically going to fail the visual portion of the test because you have modified your vehicle in an unapproved manner.


smogcheck link #2 shows a whole slew of kits which were retrofit for 94 and newer model vechiles. But the same thing should pertain to those older vechiles where newer modern fuel systems and engines are swapped into older vechiles as long as everything is transported into the older vechiles.


http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/aftermkt.htm#offroad
 
#16 ·
Hey Josh you can run LPG or a duel fuel set up but you still have to have it smoged and you have to keep all the OEM smog shit in place.

now from how I understand it Co. like PG&E and others like them get a special deal from Ca.


But you are right the fucked state of Ca. should make LPG exempt and give us more when it comes to the trails
 
#17 ·
Take emissions ouit of the picture. I don't care if you are LPG, can be LPG, would be LPG, would if it wasn't for having to get smogged every 2 years etc. :flipoff2:

I am pre smog but if I wasn't, and if there was a program like I'm suggesting in place I would gladly convert and get smogged every year if I had to.

The link I posted shows possible FEDERAL incentives that may apply to FOTR/RTF/ROCetc., as well as incentives for those who wish to convert.
 
#18 ·
JoshC said:
Take emissions ouit of the picture. I don't care if you are LPG, can be LPG, would be LPG, would if it wasn't for having to get smogged every 2 years etc. :flipoff2:

I am pre smog but if I wasn't, and if there was a program like I'm suggesting in place I would gladly convert and get smogged every year if I had to.

The link I posted shows possible FEDERAL incentives that may apply to FOTR/RTF/ROCetc., as well as incentives for those who wish to convert.
If your talking about if RTF got a cut of the $$ from the state clean air act for, Alt fuel cars, that would be very cool.

Yes, Alt fuels do need to be smogged, I used to smog them, they fall under the same rules that gasers fall under. It is harder to find an alt fuel smog station, but all Ref's are required to have an Alt fuel license so your local ref can help you.
 
#19 ·
Isn't LPG or natural gas for that matter dramatically better for emmissions and smog regardless of the required testing? Anyone with testing knowledge know this?

I thought LPG emmisions were so much better than gas it wasn't even comparable....like 10% of gas emmissions.
 
#20 ·
NOTPRETTY said:
Isn't LPG or natural gas for that matter dramatically better for emmissions and smog regardless of the required testing? Anyone with testing knowledge know this?

I thought LPG emmisions were so much better than gas it wasn't even comparable....like 10% of gas emmissions.
I could not tell you a number, but yes its significantly better, I will look though my books and see if I still have the Alt fuel specs.
 
#23 ·
welndmn said:
If your talking about if RTF got a cut of the $$ from the state clean air act for, Alt fuel cars, that would be very cool.
EXACTLY! Maybe FOTR/RTF may be able to get some funding or a grant of some kind for including a "clean air benefit" (like more access, free access, or whatever) to approved vehicles... I presume though, it would have to be included in the RTMP?
 
#24 ·
CNG (compressed natural gas) not feasible

Just a tidbit for you guys. CNG is not really feasible for the average person. Aside from there being virtually no fueling stations, they burn a lot of fuel giving them a very limited range. The parts and pieces are expensive. These systems run a tank pressure of 3,000, or 3,600 psi. The only way to do it affordably would be to buy a used CNG vehicle from a govt auction. Even then you wouldn't want to get too far away from a big town for fear of no fuel sites. My .02
Travis..
 
#25 ·
crashnzuk said:
Just a tidbit for you guys. CNG is not really feasible for the average person. Aside from there being virtually no fueling stations, they burn a lot of fuel giving them a very limited range. The parts and pieces are expensive. These systems run a tank pressure of 3,000, or 3,600 psi. The only way to do it affordably would be to buy a used CNG vehicle from a govt auction. Even then you wouldn't want to get too far away from a big town for fear of no fuel sites. My .02
Travis..
i see em at pnp alot so parts are there and not expensive:flipoff2:
 
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