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WTF are they thinking?

4K views 57 replies 19 participants last post by  randii 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 ·
This was brought up and discussed during last weeks ROC meeting. Neither the County or USFS knew about the sign but said they would look into it. We all agreed to voluntarily stay off Ice House Road beyond the SMUD station during the winter months to prevent an official closure.

Give an inch and they take a mile!
 
#3 ·
Didn't know anything?? !!!!! It has the county listed at the top of it!! FS second on the list. and I know I would have heard if FOTR sanctioned it. Which we did not. Agree to voluntarily stay off, yes. Signs NEVER
 
#4 ·
cruzila said:
Didn't know anything?? !!!!! It has the county listed at the top of it!! FS second on the list. and I know I would have heard if FOTR sanctioned it. Which we did not. Agree to voluntarily stay off, yes. Signs NEVER
I hear ya Scott! Dennis Meyer brought up a "rumor" he'd heard and both Dan Bolster (EDC) and Jeff M? (USFS) claimed that they didn't know about any signs:rolleyes:
 
#6 ·
This is one reason some good people give up. It's very hard to work with people that say one thing but do another then lie about it to your face.

For the record, we were also told by the County DOT guy that there were NO PLANS to do anything with the Little Sluice this year. Yeah, right :rolleyes:
 
#7 ·
HA! thats what we thought as well was who put this up?
So far any meeting notes I have found said it was asked to stay off for snow shoeing and other foot traffic.
 
#8 ·
All the more reason to stay involved if you ask me.

They probably don't have any current PLANS to do anything with LS. Yet.

We volunteered to stay off that road before it was determined to be a COUNTY road and before the FS closed all over the snow travel off of roads.
 
#9 ·
Scott- I couldn't agree more! We must stay involved and informed. We've commited to have someone from our club at each and every meeting just for this reason. We're in it for the long run;)
 
#10 ·
Should be interesting to see if anyone fesses up to posting the sign in the first place. The County and USFS reps in the room at the last ROC both denied knowledge, and one even speculated perhaps that it was SMUD.

Regardless, the sign needs to come down, if it has not already. Sure would be nice to know who to prosecute for illegal road closure.

Randii
 
#11 ·
Just in case the picture goes away, here's what the sign says:
NO MOTORIZED
WINTER ACCESS

For Motorized Rubicon Trail Access
back track 6 miles and turn right
Help Preserve the Loon Lake Winter Recreation Area
for non-motorized winter recreation enthusiasts


El Dorado County
U.S. Forest Service
Friends of the Rubicon
Rubicon Oversight Committe​
 
#12 ·
If El Dorado County is on top i would think they are taking the lead on this.
But with no reference to any resolution number or county ord #, i would have to say its bogus. So is there any snow lovers who have been really PO'd at us lately?
 
#13 ·
Where was this posted ?
It says backtrack 6 miles , ?????
I thought you went past Loon road and on to airport flats ? is that wrong in winter ? It seems from the sign that there is a right hand turn back 6 miles but the split to Georgetown ,IIRC,is a hell of a lot more back from Loon road than 6 miles?
 
#14 ·
This was posted near the Loon Lake kiosk, where SMUD stops plowing. The Wentworth Springs route, a.k.a. the 'true' Rubicon Trail is the preferred route for the winter, but this is a VOLUNTARY arrangement for motorized users, and IMHO, no closure can be enforced.

Randii
 
#17 ·
randii said:
Just in case the picture goes away, here's what the sign says:

Help Preserve the Loon Lake Winter Recreation Area
for non-motorized winter recreation enthusiasts​

If none of these organizations have prior knowledge:

El Dorado County
U.S. Forest Service
Friends of the Rubicon
Rubicon Oversight Committe​

can you be assured that the non-motorized winter recreation enthusiasts are not just illegally claiming territory?

In the SoCal desert, immediately after S21 passed, it was not above the ethics of the anti-access and anti-motorized advocates to relocate the skinny carsonite "no motorized vehicles beyond this point" signs. In some cases the location of the signs dictated the status of the route. The survey of route status, open or closed, came after the NPS and anti-motorized activists populated the landscape with closure signs (after the NPS completed it's efforts to resign routes that somehow "lost" the first round of closed signs).

Has El Dorado County dispatched a road maintenance crew to remove the vandalized signs?

Happy Trails!
 
#18 ·
peesalot said:
Anyone wanna post the accepted winter access? I realize thru wentworth but whats the way if it aint past Loon to airport flats ?
We're getting confoozled with no pics... check the thread here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386952

The generally-accepted winter access route goes past Robb's Resort, and does not take the blue route toward Loon Lake and go past Chipmunk Bluffs, but rather proceeds along the purple line, downhill across Gerle Creek at Airport Flat.

Randii
 
#19 ·
Those organizations are checking. MEMBERS of those organizations profess to not knowing... we'll see if other folks within the organizations know, and will admit it. If this is an honest misunderstanding, then no foul.

Certainly, it could be rogue non-motorized winter recreation enthusiasts, but there's no tell-tale trail of granola to tell! :laughing:

If the sign isn't down this weekend, FOTR will likely escalate... I'm hoping that the parties responsible pull it sooner, or that EDC steps up before the weekend.

Randii
 
#20 ·
so if I understand this the Section of Ice house Rd. past loon lake turn is not even open to airport flats in winter ?
So where is the sign speaking of as a turn 6 miles back ?
Or , do they plow the Loon lake turn off up a ways ? That would mean the sign re directs you to go back to Ice house and go up to airport flats ?:confused:



In summer where is trailer parking if you go past airport flats ? or is there any ?
 
#22 ·
peesalot said:
so if I understand this the Section of Ice house Rd. past loon lake turn is not even open to airport flats in winter ?
Nope. SMUD plows the road all the way into the SMUD access, and also clears the Chalet parking access, near where this sign was posted. The 'voluntary agreement' extends primarily from the Chalet on to the far side of the second dam, where the gravel road descends to the FOTR kiosk at the base of the Loon spillway.

peesalot said:
Or , do they plow the Loon lake turn off up a ways ? That would mean the sign re directs you to go back to Ice house and go up to airport flats ?:confused:
Yes, SMUD plows in to the Chalet -- and yes, the sign redirects you to go back past the first dam, past Chipmunk Bluff, and back to the main road, where you turn north toward Airport Flat.

peesalot said:
In summer where is trailer parking if you go past airport flats ? or is there any ?
There is trailer parking at Airport Flat itself -- quite a bit of it, but you can also park trailers on either side of the road near the Wentworth Springs turnoff.

Randii
 
#23 ·
mtnbronco said:
I'm curious now... What ever happen with the parking issue at the Chalet?
Seems like there is alot of disinformation going around and some officials are acting on it by mistake.
Two separate issues -- if any agency folks are confused, golly. :shaking: They should know better!

As the USFS left it for 2005, parking is allowed in the Chalet overflow parking area as long as acess is retained to the helipad -- but parking is NOT allowed in the paved Chalet lot. More details here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=389498
USFS plans to review this parking policy next year, and possibly annually.

Randii
 
#24 ·
randii said:
Nope. SMUD plows the road all the way into the SMUD access, and also clears the Chalet parking access, near where this sign was posted. The 'voluntary agreement' extends primarily from the Chalet on to the far side of the second dam, where the gravel road descends to the FOTR kiosk at the base of the Loon spillway.


Yes, SMUD plows in to the Chalet -- and yes, the sign redirects you to go back past the first dam, past Chipmunk Bluff, and back to the main road, where you turn north toward Airport Flat.


There is trailer parking at Airport Flat itself -- quite a bit of it, but you can also park trailers on either side of the road near the Wentworth Springs turnoff.

Randii
Last weekend the Chalet was not plowed :(
 
#25 ·
I find it hard to believe that the County and FS names are on a sign without their knoledge and/or permission. As for the ROC there has been some discussion regarding signs (not about closure), but I can't remember a motion, second, or vote to put one up (regarding closure), so if ROC knew about it only the County faction was in the know.

Now about FOTR knowing about their name being put on this sign, I say NO WAY.

When the FS said that they did not know anything about the sign, it didn't sound very convincing to me.

My last comment right now is that this looks like a laminated paper sign just like the ones made by the FS last year and the year before.

I am not trying to put the blame on anyone without proof, but I have always been one of those people whose glass is half full and trusted people on their word. Dealing with government and their contractors/subcontracors has made me take at least 2 looks at whats going on, both the positive and the negative. I don't like looking at a half empty glass but I am finding it's a neccessary step.

Dennis
 
#26 ·
When I read Montes' e-mail to Del he stated that the sign had been removed, but at his request the FS Ranger replaced it. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the Ranger had one in the truck they must have been aware of it's origional placement. Now when the FS denied knowledge of the sign at the ROC Meeting I'm thinking their idea of the truth is dfferent than mine.

Looking at the verbage of the sign's that were posted, we didn't agree to the words "No Motorized Winter Access" we agreed to use "Voluntary OHV Winter Closure Area" and use the Wentworth Springs road for access. One way says it's closed and the other says that this is an area that other users can use during the winter months.
 
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