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Trail Patrol Sticker Removal - Attention

3K views 48 replies 25 participants last post by  makya 
#1 ·
Just a message to anyone who has a Patrol Sticker or if you know anyone with a Trail Patrol sticker on their window, to please remove it. We will no longer be identified by a sticker on the window.

Why? There are 2 main reasons. First, we're the Rubicon Trail Patrol, not the Fordyce, Barrett, Dusy, etc Trail Patrol. Maybe someday we will...but for now, we are issuing removable plaques so people can take them off when they aren't on the Rubicon. Secondly, there is a cost involved with giving out the stickers and with removable stickers we can reuse them when someone resigns, instead of making new ones.

A Trained and Active member will look like this on the trail.



If anyone has one on the window, I've asked Merlin and the USFS to remind people to remove them.

I would like recognize Jim at www.inchwormgear.com in Shingle Springs for making new stickers and www.atvobsession.com for donating over $100 in Tap Plastic plaques.

Thanks.


BTW...both Scott Emmons and myself will be at the Robb's Work party on Saturday night if you like to talk to us about helping out on the trail. It's easy to do...and great excuse for the wife..."Sorry...it's my Trail Patrol assignment."...lol.
 
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#2 ·
Well..........................I am dissapointed.
I have been with trail patrol since it was just an idea and now I'm told that the stickers on my sun visors (so I can display them or not) are not valid because someone thought it was a good idea to have a fawkin 2x4 haging by a zip tie from the front of my rig instead.

Ya know, I love the trail as much as or more than most and it kinda makes me pissed that I am told that I am "not identified". I really dont like to be the "good guy" anyway but I jumped at the chance to do what I can to help save our trail and even littered my rig with stickers that I bought just for that cause.

I usually enter at the "real" entrance anyway so picking up and zip tying a even gayer sign to my rig at the kiosk is out of the question as I am not going to drive up to loon and hope an "official" trail patrol member is there to issue me my 2x4 just to turn around and go in my preferred route.


I tryed to do my part but I guess its not by the "new rulers" approval so good luck and have fun.:flipoff:

Ryan (BEAR)
 
#3 ·
HMMM, I'm still pissed, and after thinking a bit more.........

Why the hell would a "volunteer" be not recognized?
Did we set the standards higher than volunteer status, now we have to be approved?
I thought the more people the better, but I guess not.(we are just giving information:confused: )

From my eyes.......it seems that lately the attitude of most of the "save the trail" crew has changed to the " I am in with the right people to still be here if it closes" attitude.
I don't give a S%!T, don't recognize me. I don't do this for any of you guys, I do it for the trail.

One day you all will realize that you are shooing away the only help you have.:shaking:

Give me an addy, I'll mail my paid for from my own pocket because I wanted to be part of the solution "Trail Patrol" stickers to where ever.............in a used wag bag.:flipoff:

I am on the razors edge with this attitude and about to just turn rebel.:mad:

Unless this fawkin attitude changes, I'll be on the sidelines.:mad3:

Ryan "no brown on my nose" (Bear)

ATV,
This IS NOT directed directly at you but at ALL of the people who once stood by my side as users and now think they can tell others what is right and wrong and think they are more important than anyone else.
 
#4 ·
The reality of the situation is that we have a lot of people running "Trail Patrol" stickers who are not active in patrol. It's that simple. Trail Patrol requires a certain dedication to the cause. There are some folks who have stickers but have never been to any training nor do we know who these people are or if they are doing the right thing for the trail.

I'm disappointed to see you leave if you are no longer interested, but that's a decision you have to make on your own.

I am also disappointed to see you start a rant here instead of taking this up directly with us on the Trail Patrol forums so we could get things resolved directly. Again, that's a decision you have to make on your own I guess, but usually directly working out an issue is better than attempting to start a public flame war. There's still a chance for you to do the right thing here. Thank you!
 
#5 ·
Go ahead and cry wolf from your high horse.
Here.... there........wherever, I have never posted in the "official trail patrol forum" at all, why start now?........heck, I'll pm you my phone # if ya want to talk direct.:evil:
Trail Patrol started here on pirate4x4. I didnt know I had certain places I was supposed to post my thoughts.(I guess my super secret trail patrol decoder ring didnt work).

Its simple, trail patrol is supposed to be on the trail to educate, report and .........................MAKE A PRESENCE. Its not that hard to take a picture and talk to people:rolleyes:
If the, "reality of the situation is that we have a lot of people running "Trail Patrol" stickers who are not active in patrol."..... WHO CARES?? Its a bigger presence, its not like were fawkin cops??:confused:
Damn, it must be cool to be a real life trail patrol member...........mabe OCC will make a bike after you.:laughing:

If doing the right thing means putting myself above any other respectful willing to help user.....forget it.

I have alot more to say but I type really slow so i'll stop for now.

The fawkin sad part is, I still like those involved as people, I just think you guys need to re-think your ultimate intentions.

Whatever, let me know when you cool trail patrol guys become normal again and we ALL can have the same goal.

Ryan (Bear)

Get off the high horse, your no better than anyone else trying to do the same thing for the same place.:shaking:

BTW, this is not a public flame war, its ME talking to those of YOU who think they are superior.
 
#6 ·
Wow, Bear you are upset. You have been asked to continue with the Volunteer Trail Patrol program. I guess you didn't get the "memo" (trying to keep it light here)

Last year, or was it the year before? TP was initiated by a couple people. There were no reports, no organization, and as far as I am concerned no accomplishment beyond some dedicated individuals like yourself out there spreading the good word.

Now we have two eager volunteers ready to take TP to the next level. Organization, reports back to the public and real training that builds the trust and confidence between the EDC Sheriff and Patrol. If that means a high horse to you, I guess it might not ever be different for you. I really hope to be wrong here.

You are passionate about preserving the trail. It may not agree with what comes in the RTMP or even with the opinions of other users. I do hope you see that the phrase "divided we fall" really applies here. By posting this you seed dissention. Something we sorely do not need at this stage, or any stage of the game. And a game it is, you know that too. I hate the politics involved but try to play along and not compromise my personal morals. There are many players in this game, many with some real clout. Most disagree with each other, that makes it a distasteful deal for sure.

If you can't stomach it, I hope you can see the best thing to do is not rant in a public manner against the very people you have the most in common with.

I see your points, all of them, I can see how you feel betrayed. Why not try to smooth it instead of pouring gas on that fire.

Scott
 
#7 · (Edited)
Anyone who knows me know just how passionate I am about the entire El Dorado County Forest, not just the Rubicon trail, I am a native for gods sakes.:mad3:

The next level?..........were all just users. The next level is carrying a badge and gun........ Users are equal, TP or not.

"Divided we fall"! I agree, so why are some (who have been involved the same fight as many other volunteers) telling the others that are willing to help, that they are "not worthy" unless things are done there way?
Did I miss the memo where trail patrol get something for flashing a sticker? Is TP getting benefits from educating others? If so, I am owed because i have done it since the begining. I thought it was just some volunteers trying to save a world famous trail for EVERYONE.
I am not dividing anyone here.

It seems the "new" trail patrol is more like a couple of security guards that think they are better than any other tax payin, meeting attending, trail using person.

I'm not trying to pour gas on the fire just simply typing (slowly) my feelings on this issue in the same forum it was presented.

I'm sorry if the "higher-ups" are embarrassed, I'm just a trail user speaking my mind. Sorry if I'm not total P.C.

FOTR should be changed to FOTOOTR.
Friends of the Owners Of The Rubicon:mad3:
 
#9 · (Edited)
I would love to help with the repairs on walker and be at Robbs this weekend to talk to who-ever but I cant for a few reason..........

1.My rig is still broke from the 4th of july trip (where I was running my "unrecognized" trail patrol stickers and handing out info pamplets, sorry.)

2. I will be in Reno having my injection pump replaced on my CTD.

3. I should prolly cool off a bit.

My house is always open for meetings though, even midweek;)
 
#10 ·
Well...this was a cool way to come home from a concert....not.

But...I will indudge you. I'm frankly stunned....that anyone would be upset over a sticker of all things. It's just a sticker....not a gold medal, or Heisman trophy.

BEAR said:
Anyone who knows me know just how passionate I am about the entire El Dorado County Forest, not just the Rubicon trail, I am a native for gods sakes.:mad3:
That's great....but we're Rubicon Trail Patrol. If you would like to expand Trail Patrol beyond the Rubicon, why not offer to HELP expand it...


BEAR said:
The next level?..........were all just users. The next level is carrying a badge and gun........ Users are equal, TP or not.
That comment is so far out there. I have spent HOURS and HOURS of my own personal time, along with Scott to simply make this thing organized.

I would like you to tell me about communication you've had regarding Trail Patrol in the past year prior to me emailing you? I'd venture it was ZERO.

When we started...We had NOTHING...ZERO. We didn't even have a list of people and email or phone numbers. ZIP.

Wouldn't it be nice to know who else is on the trail on a given weekend?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to radio to a fellow patrol person if you're in trouble...vehicle or otherwise?

Wouldn't it be nice to know what kinds of tickets the USFS and Sheriff are issuing so you can tell people about it?

Wouldn't it be nice to call for Search and Rescue if you ran into a medical emergency? I guess you could use the sticker to assist in CPR. ;)

That's the essense of your "evil empire" speech. Those are the kinds of things we want to do.....RTF has submitted a grant to the state for us to get Radios...did you know that? Instead of worrying about your sticker....Worry about the actual mission....keep the trail open.


BEAR said:
"Divided we fall"! I agree, so why are some (who have been involved the same fight as many other volunteers) telling the others that are willing to help, that they are "not worthy" unless things are done there way?
Did I miss the memo where trail patrol get something for flashing a sticker?
The people that are willing to volunteer for the Patrol, are making a sacrifice in their time to help the trail. I have a REAL sense of responsibility for every single person out there. I feel it's my "job" to make sure everyone is fully trained so that they are as safe as possible on the trail. Merlin and Adam spent over 1 hour on Saturday giving AWESOME tips and tricks to the members to stay safe and still do their job. We have UNBELIEVABLE support from the EDSO and USFS....The top people on both sides...including people in the field...have given us their personal cell phone and email addresses, so that we can stay in touch. They want us to succeed as badly as we do.

You say "done their way". Are you implying that getting trained by a PROFESSIONAL law enforcement officer on how NOT to get in trouble is bad thing?

Do you know why we added a calendar and log forms? Because the STATE will take into account how many volunteer hours we put into it "for the greater public good" when submitting grant money. Did you know that?

So...Please...Indulge me now. Please tell EXACTLY how many Man Hours of Patrol were performed in 2004 and 2005.

You couldn't even give the names of 1/2 the people with the vaunted window sticker. Does that seem good to you?

BEAR said:
Is TP getting benefits from educating others? If so, I am owed because i have done it since the begining. I thought it was just some volunteers trying to save a world famous trail for EVERYONE.
The basic premise is JUST THAT SIMPLE. However, as in all things...there is more to it, in order to accomplish that goal. How would you feel, if YOU were in charge and one of your volunteers was beaten up on the trail because of a wrong approach to a situation?

I would feel HORRIBLE...and I would ask myself, what could I have done differently. Well...I DID ask myself that...BEFORE someone got hurt, so it is REQUIRED that all new Patrol members receive BASIC training from an EXPERT in dealing with those types of situations. It's ashame you've felt above it....because if you had attended...you would have been amazed at the amount of tips given by Merlin and Adam.


BEAR said:
I am not dividing anyone here.
I have to say...I've known you for awhile now....and I really don't understand why you couldn't email me or Scott....you have it. When you're mad at your boss, do you post on the internet? One would hope, you'd talk directly to him.

If you had dropped me an email, and said "I am PISSED...please explain it to me.." I would have met you for a beer...talked on the phone or whatever it took to speak to you....in person.


BEAR said:
It seems the "new" trail patrol is more like a couple of security guards that think they are better than any other tax payin, meeting attending, trail using person.
Bear...Let's explain the NEW trail patrol....and then you tell me if we fall into the above paragraph.

A) We train all volunteers to ensure they have the personal tools to avoid ANY potential conflict or problem with someone on the trail. We use PROFESSIONAL techniques provided by the EDSO to defuse...not escalate a situation.

B) We have the name, number and email of EVERY MEMBER...AND, we have a calendar so that we know Who is on the trail on any given day.

C) We track the hours of every volunteer to help us receive the MAXIMUM amount of chance to receive Grant Money from the State.

D) We want to provide radios to EVERY patrol member to either contact Merlin or the EDSO directly to provide a helicopter in an emergency.

E) We have the ear of EVERY TOP AGENCY leader, so that we can find out PRECISELY what tickets are being given to users, so that we can focus our education on it. Do you think the users would like that?

F) We have literature focused directly on the main issues facing the trail.

G) We're working directly with the RTF to potentially receive the resources required to do this as safely and effectively as possible.

There's more....but it's 2am...and I'm tired. I'm sorry if you think a rag tag bunch of people, aimlessly driving around the trail with stickers is a good thing.....but I beg to differ. There's nothing elitest about Trail Patrol....Anyone, with a square head on their shoulders, the time and conviction to put help where it's needed most...ON THE TRAIL....is welcome to join.....but first....You're going through training...no ifs, ands or buts. Sorry...but I need to sleep at night. (not that it's happening right this moment)


BEAR said:
I'm not trying to pour gas on the fire just simply typing (slowly) my feelings on this issue in the same forum it was presented.
For someone typing slowly....I saw a lot of needless steam rising from the keyboard.


BEAR said:
I'm sorry if the "higher-ups" are embarrassed, I'm just a trail user speaking my mind. Sorry if I'm not total P.C.

I am SO FAR from embarrassed. Since May....Scott and I have literally spent HOURS....Hundreds of hours, creating lists, getting stuff made, printing brochures, acquiring donations for trash bags, getting maps from the USFS, driving all over the place, attending meetings, talking for hours with the EDSO and USFS, creating a website, creating a calendar, recruiting new volunteers, sending emails, designing a training class, keeping the members informed, standing at the KIOSK in the hot sun for HOURS handing out trash bags, getting a donation for an EZ UP from a fellow 4 Wheeler...Bruce at Roundeyes so we had shade, spending personal money on feeding lunch and cold drinks for the new members, getting Merlin to donate his valuable time to teach the class....

I could go on....and I should mention...most of that was done, while I was bed ridden from surgery. So really... Am I proud of what we've accomplished? You betcha.

I'm really sorry that you've chosen to vent over a sticker, instead of being as proud of our(all members, agencies and groups) accomplishments as I am.


BEAR said:
FOTR should be changed to FOTOOTR.
Friends of the Owners Of The Rubicon:mad3:
Ball....Meet left field. I have no idea what you're talking about. I've only met Mark Smith in passing at meetings...I doubt he even knows who I am. I've known Merlin for years....had no idea until recently he had any financial interest in any of the land. My main focus with Merlin is Member Education....all other concerns are secondary.

I could careless about the "owners", as long as their goal...is the same as mine...continued access.

I'm 100% for you speaking your mind.....To US first. We should have had a chance to talk about this first.....then if you felt compelled to tell the world we're insane....then by all means....vent.
 
#11 ·
BEAR said:
1.My rig is still broke from the 4th of july trip (where I was running my "unrecognized" trail patrol stickers and handing out info pamplets, sorry.)

A) It would have been nice to know on the calendar you had gone.

B) It would have been nice to know, what precisely you were handing out. I mean really....we have a brochure with all the rules of the trail and you didn't ask us for any.

C) You were sent an email DIRECTLY regarding removing your old..."Unrecognized" sticker....

We're asking all members to remove their stickers from their window.
You may have seen my post on the Pirate4x4 site.

We basically want more control over who has them...and most
importantly, so you can take them off when you're on another trail or
just want to run the Rubicon trail and NOT be on Patrol.

The new plaques are easy to mount on the front with some zip strips
and reusable...I know of few of you have new ones already. If you're
going to be at the Walker Hill project....let me know, and I will
deliver you a new sticker/plaque at Walker Hill around lunch time.

Anyone else...email and we'll work out away to get it to you...either
at a ROC meeting or at the Kiosk....


I see nothing in my inbox responding to it.
 
#12 ·
Seems like a pretty hefty power trip IMHO. You all have driven me straight away with all this bureaucracy. I was way motivated and now I want nothing to do with any of it RTP, FOTR and such. So for me the best way to do my part without having an aneurism due to the power trippers is to just send money. I will continue to support Del with as much cash as I can send to BRC, and I will support TDO's Cantina and probably cut a few direct checks to RTF.

Believe it or not Running the trail with a sticker or without I am always on point for outlaws. It is not a sacrifice but rather a privilege to run this trail and running it and keeping an extra eye open is not all that difficult.

I am with Bear on the idea that you folks are way out of control.

Tips for Patrolmen

1. If I am doing nothing wrong leave me alone, I don't wanna talk to you or have you waste your paper on me as I already have copies of everything.

2. Don't diss my trash bag, if I wanted a new one I would go BUY one from CA4WD leaving an abundance of bags for those who are not prepared.

3. If I am running the trail solo don't tell me I shouldn't, I don't like people much so until it is some sort of LAW that you get passed out of concern for my best interests, back off. I am far more prepared then you give me credit for and could care less what your opinion is on the matter and if things go bad I do have my SAT Phone and batman decoder ring with the Kung Foo grip.


And to rebut this statement....

"I would like you to tell me about communication you've had regarding Trail Patrol in the past year prior to me emailing you? I'd venture it was ZERO."

I got my first email in late May or early June. IMHO if the trail is open 365 a year then your planning and such should be the same. I would like to know what any of you folks did over the winter to get this going, I joined your board and volunteered and after 4-5 months of ZERO activity on your private RTP board gave up. Nothing was posted all winter cept you winter folks saying you were gonna be on the trail. Seems to me That LE training and such could have been taken care of during the off season so WE (meaning you as we doesn't apply here anymore) would be prepared for the Summer.


Anyway I just think that Bear has some good points. As far as airing them in public.......well that was a solved situation (in the form of a donation) that was turned away as well. My argument is not liked but my point is valid. If RTP, FOTR, RTF want to be "Professional" why would you be associated here? After all this is just another page on the Largest 4X4 site in the world, which just happens to have one of the rankest reputations as well??? I am sure that our adversaries just love that. :shaking:

As for the divided thing..........You all did the dividing, why are you surprised at folks being PO'd???
 
#13 ·
Regardless of the personalities involved, if we look at the big picture, TP finally has a workable structure, and will be able to account for it's actions similar to FOTR.

We have to be able to document and show the agencies involved we are part of the solution.

So whether or not you liked or disliked Ken or anyone else approach, do not forget it is for the best.

Kudos to anyone who was willing to step up and do something!!!
 
#14 ·
WOW....People who will speak their minds. What a novelty. Let me first start by reminding the powers that be that this is "Volunteer Trail Patrol". Nothing more. I "volunteered" 2 years ago with Big Rich, spent time at the shed, time on the trail, and still do. When I do "patrol" I don't want anyone knowing i'm there. I'm certianly not going to pass out any propoganda that can be later picked up by me in the form of trash. I am not going to confront anyone about what they are or are not properly doing. I am not going to document every time i'm on the trail "patroling" for the purpose of obtaining grant money' or to show "the powers that be" that we are part of the solution. I already know that I AM part of the solution. I am ,however going to continue to do the right thing. If i see ya in a bad situation, I'll photograph it, GPS it, document it and Merlin it. No more, no less. Bear, while obviously upset, did have some good points and I hope he will continue to take a stand and voice his opinion, popular or not. As for Bitch Slapper.....You said it best, my feelings exactly!! OH, and any trail I'm on I am on "patrol", not just the Rubicon. Who ever made the "we're not Dusey, Fordyce, Deer Valley trail patrol" just dosen't GET IT!!!!:confused:
Well have a nice day and remember TREAD Lightly!
 
#15 · (Edited)
Bitch_Slapper said:
Seems like a pretty hefty power trip IMHO. You all have driven me straight away with all this bureaucracy
If our "Bureaucracy" is knowing who is on the trail and that they are as safe as possible...then we're guilty.

That's our only concern...that people are as safe as possible. We're even looking into providing free Life Flight membership, so that no one is stuck with a Life Flight bill in case they get hurt while on the trail. Horrible idea...I know.


Bitch_Slapper said:
I will continue to support Del with as much cash as I can send to BRC, and I will support TDO's Cantina and probably cut a few direct checks to RTF.
That's awesome.



Bitch_Slapper said:
I am with Bear on the idea that you folks are way out of control.
What precisely, are we "out of control" on? Is it the training from the LEO? Wanting to know who is on the trail? How many hours were spent so the TRAIL can receive more government funding?

Please...Point our specific power "trip"?? I'm frankly at a loss.

Bitch_Slapper said:
1. If I am doing nothing wrong leave me alone, I don't wanna talk to you or have you waste your paper on me as I already have copies of everything.
Copies of WHAT? What are you handing out? Anything useful? I'd really like to know....Because Scott and sat and talked to the Sheriff in charge of all the deputies on the trail....we talked to the head of the Forest Route Designation to find out EXACTLY what they were citing users on the trail in our to craft our literature.

Is THAT is what's important? Do you care about people getting cited on the trail? I do...and that's precisely why we went to the source.

That information MUST get to the USERS. It must.


Bitch_Slapper said:
2. Don't diss my trash bag, if I wanted a new one I would go BUY one from CA4WD leaving an abundance of bags for those who are not prepared.
We've handed out over 200 trash bags in 3 days....We've gotten another donation for another 500! I see no problem here.


Bitch_Slapper said:
3. If I am running the trail solo don't tell me I shouldn't

Who on Earth said you shouldn't? We'd encourage it.


Bitch_Slapper said:
I got my first email in late May or early June. IMHO if the trail is open 365 a year then your planning and such should be the same. I would like to know what any of you folks did over the winter to get this going, I joined your board and volunteered and after 4-5 months of ZERO activity on your private RTP board gave up.
You're "venting" at the wrong people.

Let me explain. I was a very active trail patrol person in 2004/2005. Nobody talked to me, I had no idea who else was on the trail and I had no idea how successful...what ACTUAL results were attained..other than my own individual accomplishments. The RubiconTrailpatrol.org website was created in 2005 (December, I believe).

I HAD NO IDEA! No one emailed me a note to say "Hey...we got a website". Do you think a Trail Patrol member should be notified? I do! How long does that take out of your day, if you have any level of organization? 2 minutes?

Well...I went to the Placerville Environment Impact meeting and public feedback...If you were there..I was one of the speakers. After the meeting (remember...this APRIL!!) I saw Randy. I asked Randy, hoping to find out SOME sort of information...what was going on with Trail Patrol. I knew nothing! Randy tells me...I don't know...I haven't heard anything, but there is a website. I was FLABBERGASTED!! I had no idea....not a clue. Is this a good way to run anything??

A week or so later...I attended the ROC meeting and met Scott. I had exchanged emails with Scott. We both wondered what was up....Nothing had been planned over the winter (as you agree should have been done). When we realized that Rich had a TON on his plate....Scott and I picked up the pieces....and the piece were small. The only tangible thing we had....was a semi-dead website. We didn't know anyone, had no email addresses, no phone numbers....nothing.

From 2004 until May 2006....How many emails did you receive from RTP? I got none. Is that good?

Bitch_Slapper said:
Nothing was posted all winter cept you winter folks saying you were gonna be on the trail. Seems to me That LE training and such could have been taken care of during the off season so WE (meaning you as we doesn't apply here anymore) would be prepared for the Summer.

I don't understand...We're in complete agreement on this. You said YOU FOLKS....You don't get it...I found out about the website by CHANCE! Without meeting Randy, Lord knows when I would have found it.
Ok...I just checked the site to get my dates straight. I signed up for the board on April 21.

http://rubicontrailpatrol.org/index.php?topic=6.15

How can "you folks" send out information in the Winter, as you suggest...when "you folks" aren't even aware it exists?


Bitch_Slapper said:
Anyway I just think that Bear has some good points. As far as airing them in public.......well that was a solved situation (in the form of a donation) that was turned away as well.
I have no idea what you're talking about....We've received donations from CAL4wheeler, INCHWORMGEAR and ROUNDEYES. Ryan (Bear) hasn't donated anything to us and nothing has been turned away.


Bitch_Slapper said:
My argument is not liked but my point is valid. If RTP, FOTR, RTF want to be "Professional" why would you be associated here? After all this is just another page on the Largest 4X4 site in the world, which just happens to have one of the rankest reputations as well???
Because this is the #1 place to get out information about the trail. Why wouldn't we?

As for reputation....Reputations are often more Rumor...than reality. You should have learned that in High School.


Bitch_Slapper said:
I am sure that our adversaries just love that. :shaking:

As for the divided thing..........You all did the dividing, why are you surprised at folks being PO'd???

What is SO MAGICAL about those stickers? I'm sorry...but I just don't put a lot of personal importance, into a sticker. I just don't.


I'm sure our adversaries are totally loving it....We can't even stay together over a STICKER.

[edited for spelling mistake]
 
#16 ·
#17 · (Edited)
WOW. I cannot believe the negative sentiments. I'm not as actively involved as some so maybe I'm unaware of some personal conflicts / agendas, but it's time to face reality.

Do you really think the best way to get the message out is in an unorganized loose knit manner?
Do you really think the best way to garner the attention, means and support to do a thorough job is by flying by the seat of your pants?
Do you really think that organizations like USFS, ENF and other Gov't agencies are not bureaucracies?

Unfortuantely times change, and for organizations to survive and actually do some good for the trail they will need to play by the rules others (the bereaucracies) have established. To compete effectively in the world of business you must become very business like.

First you'll need to have a plan that shows what your going to do and how your going to do it. You'll also need to show how your going to track your results. If the powers that be like your plan they will give you the go ahead. This might be in the form of grant money or just in the form of allowing you to move forward. Guess what happens if you don't accurately track your progress or cannot meet your goals? You get shut down. If you do succeed you get to continue on. Maybe with additional funding?

Second is learning to deal with all the political and bureaucratic machinations. The people that do this for a living are real pros at the game. Why do you think big businesses have lobbyists and PAC's (Political action committees)? They know they need to get the attention (and favor) of the right people in order to get certain things done? Is this right? Doesn't matter because it's the way the game is played. You try to make your own rules you'll be on the outside looking in.

This is the real world of business and politics folks. No if's and's or but's about it. And as time goes on to continue to keep Rubicon, and other trails open, the four wheeling community must learn to play the game just like the best of them, or we will surely loose.

I'm getting off the soapbox now

ps. I've got nothing against others with differing opinions speaking up. It's how problems get identified and solved. But there is a proper place for it and a public forum isn't it
 
#18 ·
ROCKLIMO said:
WOW....People who will speak their minds. What a novelty. Let me first start by reminding the powers that be that this is "Volunteer Trail Patrol". Nothing more.
I'm failing to see your beef. We're still volunteers....I personally, take responsibility in making sure everyone is safe while volunteering. If that's bad....I'm guilty.

ROCKLIMO said:
When I do "patrol" I don't want anyone knowing i'm there. I'm certianly not going to pass out any propoganda that can be later picked up by me in the form of trash.

So...Let me understand. You're NOT going to pass out information to the USERS of the trail, that will assist them in NOT incurring a ticket, because you're afraid their going to throw it on the ground?

If you have that much lack of faith in the users of the trail....We're doomed.



ROCKLIMO said:
I am not going to confront anyone about what they are or are not properly doing.
And we've gone to PAINSTAKING effort....to do exactly that. Elminate confrontation.


ROCKLIMO said:
I am not going to document every time i'm on the trail "patroling" for the purpose of obtaining grant money' or to show "the powers that be" that we are part of the solution. I already know that I AM part of the solution.
Sorry that you feel getting financial assistance from the State is bad for the trail.


ROCKLIMO said:
OH, and any trail I'm on I am on "patrol", not just the Rubicon.
That's just part of being a responsible OHV user......and it certainly doesn't require a sticker. So what's the problem?
 
#19 ·
patfo said:
Unfortuantely times change, and for organizations to survive and actually do some good for the trail they will need to play by the rules others (the bereaucracies) have established. To compete effectively in the world of business you must become very business like.

Thank you Pat. Guys like Del and Randy Burleson understand that....We HAVE to play by their rules, if we want our access. We have to!

As for the Trail Patrol...I will tell all the "loose band" of Patrollers who think the sticker is some sort of savior...it isn't. It isn't the sticker....it's relationships with the EDSO and USFS that gets stuff done.

If they don't want the Patrol...Guess what Bear and Vince?? Sticker or not...It's OVER. DONE. They end it. They end what they want...when they want. You know it.

Trail Patrol is in the RTMP.....They WILL be requiring everyone with a sticker that they are First Aid Certified. So please...explain how we comply with that, if we don't even know who has one?
 
#20 ·
Finally.....


No matter how pissed off Ryan (Bear) is...and no matter how many 4 Wheel boards he posts about it...let's remember..over a sticker.

This is the kind of Post...that makes all this work gratifying. I'd like to repost a message from Sean, one of the new members.


whom ever got signed up for the training on the 19 won't regret it!! its fun and i tell you what, i learnd alot more than i thought i was going to get taught.... then after the training and working the kiosk, we hit the trail.. and not even ten minutes after the training we already had a problem with a guy who got stung by a bee.. i hope that guy is alright now..
thanks agen to ken, merlin, and adam for the training..

~sean~



We had 2 medical crisis in the MIDDLE of training. We had an unconscious man hit by a boat (we think) at the dam and they were requesting medical service and just before Gatekeeper....we had a man stung by a bee without his Epinepherine (spelling..I'm not doctor). We had a woman frantically running back to us at the KIOSK...

WHY?

Because we talked to her and gave her our "Future trail trash" literature and she ran back to us asking for help.

I'd say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
 
#23 ·
atvobsession said:
Copies of WHAT? What are you handing out? Anything useful? I'd really like to know....Because Scott and sat and talked to the Sheriff in charge of all the deputies on the trail....we talked to the head of the Forest Route Designation to find out EXACTLY what they were citing users on the trail in our to craft our literature.

Is THAT is what's important? Do you care about people getting cited on the trail? I do...and that's precisely why we went to the source.

That information MUST get to the USERS. It must.
I am not handing out anything and I don't approach people, if faced with an outlaw I would just take pictures. I already have literature and don't feel that every time I am out that I need someone stopping me to tell me how it is. I can read and I know the rules and obey them to the letter. Save your paper for folks who don't know or come up with some sticker I can stick on my forehead that will keep you folks outta my business.



atvobsession said:
We've handed out over 200 trash bags in 3 days....We've gotten another donation for another 500! I see no problem here.
Once again I already had a bag, in fact I have my own stack of bags that I purchased myself from CA4WD. I don't need any freebees and don't want any. And I don't need anyone telling me my bag is old and that I should go get one at Loon Kiosk. I avoid Loon as IMHO it is not part of the trail but rather a circus, i.e. that would be why it is designated the Ellis OHV trail on maps right???




atvobsession said:
Who on Earth said you shouldn't? We'd encourage it.
Some feller I passed early in the season said something to the effect that I shouldn’t be out alone in such an incapable rig, I gestured to him that he was #1 and headed on down the trail?????


Anyway long and short I think what you all are doing is great. I think the idea behind it is great. But for me a few things that have gone down leave a nasty taste in my mouth. I think the whole sticker thing is Ghey. That one guy who looks over and sees a "trail patrol" sticker on an unknown rig just before he does something stupid will think twice. It is IMO a deterrent.

Once again if I am not doing anything wrong leave me alone. That would be my point. I carry a pett, I stay on the trail, I pick up trash, and generally leave the trail better then before I drove through. I did this before it was "important" and like a ton of the folks here I do it wherever I go. Believe it or not responsible people have been frequenting the trail since the 50's if I am not mistaken.

I personally would never stick a sticker on my rig that said TP. Stealth is the only way you are gonna catch the smarter apes.

I am gonna say this one more time because this is my beef. If I am not doing anything wrong, LEAVE ME ALONE. I gave at the office.......I have heard or read what you want so badly to tell me..........So please don't ruin my day with another speech.
 
#24 ·
Thanks Slapper...

And you know....We talk to everyone when we're at the Kiosk...not because we've determined someone is irresponsible. Hardly....

We talk to everyone....cause we have CRS...can't remember s....and I forget who I talked to 10 minutes earlier....So please don't "Bitch Slap" me..lol. I'm just normal dude who needs a bigger hard drive. :)
 
#25 ·
Guys, it sucks to see so much frustration and friendly fire between folks who fundamentally agree on most issues. We all care deeply about the Rubicon, and both Forests that it runs through, that's why these exchanges are so heated. If we didn't care, this would be a snooze, and we'd be gated out already!

I have been in close touch with the new Trail Patrol leadership and a few of the old Trail Patrol members... what we are missing is complete communication between the two, even tho their goals are overlapping. Trail Patrol started with a bang in 2004, but lacked complete management, so it drifted through 2005... even with good on-the-trail presence from volunteers, the planning and communication was minimal. In 2006, we had new leadership step up, with good comms and planning, but the records were lost as to previous membership, so pulling these two groups together has been a challenge... a worth challenge, certainly, since both are so committed!

The sign thing is trivial, and is not meant to be an affront to any individual trail patrol folks. We need to be able to distinguish between active trail patrol folks and not... Frankly, I like the removable tag scheme because every now and then, I want to party it up a bit (don't let the receding/graying hair fool you!), and I want to do that as *me* and not as the Trail Patrol. Even if my keys never hit the ignition, nobody wants to see pictures of a passed-out aging hippy draped over the hood of a vehicle sporting a Trail Patrol sticker.

...Don't take any of this as an insult -- it isn't.
...Don't take it as new leadership demoting existing Trail Patrol -- it isn't.
If you frequent the trail, and can take the few hours to get trained (affiliating with the El Dorado Sherriff's Office requires this), Rubicon Trail Patrol needs you -- ESPECIALLY if you have already been doing it, and have experience and credibility. If you don't want to run the Trail Patrol sign, that's OK, too, but it seems like a small thing to get stuck on.

Hang in there, guys... Steve said it well: "All the folks involved with TP, keep up the good work, it is making a difference!" ... the end goal is good, the efforts are good, and this crap in the middle is trivial, in the grand scheme of things.

Randii
Randy Burleson
(trail user first, meeting attender second -- the meetings are worthless without the trail use)
 
#26 ·
The Rubicon TP is not the only animal in the woods. UFWDA sponsors its own volunteer trail patrol. They require a class and once 'certified' you get a distrinctive t-shirt and a pennant for ur CB antenna. So if i am certified by UFWDA (Carla Boucher's idea, BTW) may i not act in that capacity on the Con?

mb

More here:
http://www.ufwda.org/trailpatrol.htm
 
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