Route Designation FYI - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Rubicon Trail
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2006, 08:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4438
Location: Foresthill
Posts: 739
Route Designation FYI

There's an American River Watershed group meeting next week where El Dorado NF will give an update on route designation. There will be an oppurtunity to ask questions. If you are not familiar with the process, but want to get involved, this might be a good primer.

From: Bill Templin
To: Bill Templin
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 10:42 AM
Subject: ARWG Thurs. November 16, 2006 Meeting Agenda: USFS, SMUD,


Good Morning!

It's time to "Check Your Calendars"... our next meeting will be another
busy one with 3 guest speakers this time.

As usual we will meet on the 3rd Thursday of the month, Nov. 16
this month, at the Canyon View Community Center on Maidu Drive
in Auburn (see http://arwg.org ) for address and map to this site.

We will begin with Tony Scardina, USFS, updating us on the
El Dorado N.F. Off Road Vehicle "Route Designation Project".
Next month we may have a representative from the Tahoe N.F.
on their version of this project.

Next in response to the request that we received to support the
Agency/NGO Alternative, we will have both sides of the SMUD
relicensing issue represented and get updated on their current
status by David Hanson (SMUD) and Soren Jesperson
(Agency/NGO Alternative).

Please let us know if you have ideas for important guest speakers
and topics for our next meeting on Dec. 21 !

We hope to see all of you at this meeting who really are
"Interested in Our Watershed"! and helping us all learn what
we should all know about what's going on here.

As usual, we hope to have some time for you to update us on the
view of our watershed from YOUR perspective!

Thanks!


Bill Templin
Watershed Coordinator
North Fork American River Watershed
http://arwg.org
P.O. Box 743
Carmichael, CA 95609-0743

916-601-9954
wtemplin@surewest.net
__________________
Those who dare, win.
afecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,423
Blog Entries: 1
Again......

I know I keep pushing this, but if you had any idea what is going on with the Route Des Project, YOU WOULD NOT MISS THESE MEETINGS.

EVERYONE who can needs to attend.

Otherwise do not bitch later when everything is closed.

BTW, it is also important to note that the Forest Service is NOT the enemy. They are just doing thier job, which was sent to them becuase of a court-order. I have spoken with Tony Scardina several times and he is a great guy. He will inform you on what is going on, but just remember that he is not the one to complain to.
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-09-2006, 10:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 404
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 427
What time is the meeting?
__________________
Pete Newell 89 4RNR SAS W/ all the goodies. KJ6CXI
Toys on the Rocks FOTR CA4WDC TLCA BRC NRA AMA
chartdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 11:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 10,166
This is a watershed meeting, not an ENF Route Dez meeting... Tony is presenting at Bill's meeting.

It is a decent one to attend for general reference, but is not the best place to comment on the ENF Route Dez process. There should be a few more meetings coming up put on by ENF for comments specific to their Route Dez process...

Randii
randii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 02:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,423
Blog Entries: 1
Whoops, Sorry.....

I was just referring to this part:

"We will begin with Tony Scardina, USFS, updating us on the
El Dorado N.F. Off Road Vehicle "Route Designation Project".
Next month we may have a representative from the Tahoe N.F.
on their version of this project."
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 04:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 10,166
No worries -- this is good info, regardless, it is just that it is primarily a watershed-related venue. I make it to about one of their meetings every six months, just to keep FOTR's name in their heads... I'd be more than happy to have other folks do the same!

Thanks for staying abreast of all the emails out there!

Randii
randii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2006, 09:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 8,961
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Thanks Randii, I will attend. I would like to hear Tony's update, and maybe this will help me to understand the "big picture".

After the meeting at Sivlerfork, I have SO many questions.
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 07:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4438
Location: Foresthill
Posts: 739
As Randii said, this meeting would be good for background for someone not familiar with the process, not a place to comment to the USFS.
__________________
Those who dare, win.
afecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 09:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,423
Blog Entries: 1
I have a question.....

Why are we interested in the watershed? Or is this just posted becuase Tony will be there?

I THINK I can remember other watershed meetings being posted, but I never paid attention......

What am I missing?
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 09:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 8,961
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
The marginal passing of prop 84, as it relates to water shed/conservation efforts could result in more reasons for them to close trails, it could be why Tony is presenting?


Quote:
Prop 84:Water Quality, Safety and Supply. Flood Control. Natural Resource Protection. Park Improvements
State of California


(l) “Preservation” means rehabilitation, stabilization, restoration,
development, and reconstruction, or any combination of those activities.
(m) “Protection” means those actions necessary to prevent harm
or damage to persons, property or natural resources or those actions
necessary to allow the continued use and enjoyment of property or natural
resources and includes acquisition, development, restoration, preservation
and interpretation.
(n) “Restoration” means the improvement of physical structures
or facilities and, in the case of natural systems and landscape features
includes, but is not limited to, projects for the control of erosion, the
control and elimination of exotic species, prescribed burning, fuel hazard
reduction, fencing out threats to existing or restored natural resources,
road elimination, and other plant and wildlife habitat improvement to
increase the natural system value of the property.
Restoration projects
shall include the planning, monitoring and reporting necessary to ensure
successful implementation of the project objectives.

Last edited by Bebe; 11-14-2006 at 09:55 AM.
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 10:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Rubicrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2037
Location: Brentwood, CA 150 mi. from the 'Con
Posts: 5,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas
I have a question.....

Why are we interested in the watershed? Or is this just posted because Tony will be there?
IMHO, Because water quality is the key! If you look at most of the issues on the Rubicon you will see that they are tied to water quality. The original "snow gate" on the Placer side was due to silt laden runoff that was getting into the Tahoe Basin. Spider Lake was closed due the the potential of Fecal Chloroform (human waste) getting into the watershed. The proposed bridge/crossing modifications over Ellis Creek is due to silt in the stream bed.

I would say that our #1 Nemesis is water on the trail and how it effects water quality
__________________
Mark Langford
KI6TMK


'86 CJ7, ProRock60's, 4.88's/Detroits/35 Spline Alloys/CTM's, TBI 350, 700R4, 4:1 D300 w/Twin Stick, 17" x 8.5" Trail Ready HD Aluminum beadlocks, 37x13.5x17 Toyo MT's

Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers (TDO)

Wheelers for the Wounded of California
Rubicrawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 10:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 10,166
Generally, water is a huge issue.

As it relates to THIS meeting, based on the past meetings, I'd guess that this is more of an informational presentation not driven by anything in particular, but aware of the larger issues with respect to changing management on the Rubicon. Steve from ESP did a presentation a while back in the same venue, for the draft RTMP, and Tony is doing a presentation now for draft Route Designation.

Randii
randii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 03:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicrawler
IMHO, Because water quality is the key! If you look at most of the issues on the Rubicon you will see that they are tied to water quality. The original "snow gate" on the Placer side was due to silt laden runoff that was supposedly getting into the Tahoe Basin. Spider Lake was closed due to the potential of Fecal Chloroform (human waste) getting into the watershed. The proposed bridge/crossing modifications over Ellis Creek is due to supposed silt in the stream bed.

I would say that our #1 Nemesis is water on the trail and how it effects water quality
fixed it for ya

Ellis does have mild silt issues. in relation to events caused by mother nature it is nothing. But the potential or supposed potential is enough for some. Just like Surprise Canyon.
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 03:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Rubicrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2037
Location: Brentwood, CA 150 mi. from the 'Con
Posts: 5,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzila
fixed it for ya

Ellis does have mild silt issues. in relation to events caused by mother nature it is nothing. But the potential or supposed potential is enough for some. Just like Surprise Canyon.
Thanks for setting the record straight
__________________
Mark Langford
KI6TMK


'86 CJ7, ProRock60's, 4.88's/Detroits/35 Spline Alloys/CTM's, TBI 350, 700R4, 4:1 D300 w/Twin Stick, 17" x 8.5" Trail Ready HD Aluminum beadlocks, 37x13.5x17 Toyo MT's

Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers (TDO)

Wheelers for the Wounded of California
Rubicrawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 07:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
1uglyranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6576
Location: Oakley, CA
Posts: 6,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzila
Just like Surprise Canyon.

Exactly

Even if water is not the real issue, it is used as ammo in a lot of debates with the greenies.

I think Simple Man has done more than 10 minutes worth of research on this subject, and to date, I think this is the first thing that I agree with him on (just kiddin Doug)

Water is a BIG issue
__________________
Brian Whitford
711
Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers
Rage 4th............ "safety is our #2 concern"
1uglyranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2006, 09:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
Team 4554
 
Kurtuleas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 23188
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 8,423
Blog Entries: 1
Water and the elements do WAY more damage to the woods than we could ever do in our rigs. Mother nature is a bitch.

In my stompin grounds south of Kyburz, we have a posted forest road that was washed pretty bad out this past spring, it would be NOTHING for one of us to crawl thru, but for any flatlander in a stock 4x4 there would be no way.

During the Nov 11th field trip with the forest service, they told us the route will MOST LIKELY BE CLOSED becuase of the damage until it could be repaired. Even IF it is a loop route (which it is) AND they have it on the alternatives as NOT being an OHV route.

Well Shit....

#1 When WILL it be repaired? The forest service does not have any $$$ That route with all it's dispersed campsites could be inaccessable for years. A spur route off that same road had a culvert washed out back in '96 and instead of fixing it, they gated the road. Now that spur route is not even on the inventory map.

#2 Eventually EVERY road/trail in the forest will get damage by water and mother nature, does that mean the forest service's solution is to just close the road?

Oh yeah, and BTW, I think the Spider Lake closure is a bunch of BULLSHIT.
__________________
4554 OCD Racing

Our partners: Falken Tire, Vegas 4x4, CRAWL Magazine, Reid Racing, Metal Cloak, MJ Motorsports, Jessie Haines Fabrication, SFS Industries, Susanville Transmission, Pacific Fabrication, Raceline Wheels, Outlaw Grafix, The Kyburz Krawlerz, and Keith's credit card.
Kurtuleas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 10:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
1uglyranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6576
Location: Oakley, CA
Posts: 6,530
The key is to fix the water problem before the road gets washed out....

A road doesn't just wash with no warning, we have been trying to fix drainage problems on the Rubicon for years. The sad thing is, is if we don't do something to fix it, before the trail washes, then no one else will, and like you said, the trail will be lost
__________________
Brian Whitford
711
Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers
Rage 4th............ "safety is our #2 concern"
1uglyranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 347
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 10,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas
Eventually EVERY road/trail in the forest will get damage by water and mother nature, does that mean the forest service's solution is to just close the road?
Their answer is to close or manage. Sadly, these too frequently are the same, and it is on us to actively lobby for positive solutions (like adopt-a-trail groups) because the easiest choice is to default to closure. CLOSURE IS NOT MANAGEMENT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas
Oh yeah, and BTW, I think the Spider Lake closure is a bunch of BULLSHIT.
The way it happened, and how it happened, yes. Significant impact exists on the resource, but they could have managed it... instead, they closed it.
CLOSURE IS NOT MANAGEMENT!
randii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 11:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
Cranky Moderator
 
steveh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2026
Location: Placerville, CA USA
Posts: 6,742
Send a message via AIM to steveh
Quote:
Originally Posted by randii
CLOSURE IS NOT MANAGEMENT!
Which is an excellent argument for a counter suit!!!!! We need to fight fire with fire!!!!

Any Attorneys who love the outdoors and off-roading out there who want to do some pro-bono work for a young non-profit???
__________________
85 Toy Xtracab
"I DON'T want to understand !!"
Click here to donate to the Rubicon Trail Foundation
Rubicon Trail Foundation
"Wow this is unbelievable"
10th Anniversary Cantina For the 'Con 2014
steveh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2006, 01:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 8,961
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...09#post6128309

I posted this in the Land Use Section....there is a Route Designation Meetin tonight in Grass Valley, Tahoe National Forest.

Quote:
OHV Route Designation Update # 5
Tahoe National Forest

November 8, 2006

Hi all , See the schedule below for the upcoming meeting dates, times, and
locations.

Schedule for Next Meetings:
Nevada City/Grass Valley, November 15, 6:30 pm. Banner Grange Hall 12629
McCourtney, Grass Valley, (Banner Grange is located past the fairgrounds on
the east side of McCourtney. If you get to the Transfer Station, you've
gone too far.)

Truckee - December 5, 6:30 pm, Truckee Sanitary District Field Services
Building, Joerger Drive, (Directions: from Sacramento, take 188B off-ramp
and turn right or from Reno, take 188 off ramp and turn left under the
freeway. At next stop light, turn left onto Soaring Way. Take another
immediate left on to Joerger Drive. Follow Joerger to the entrance to the
Sanitary District. Once inside the parking lot, turn left. Building is
at the left end of the parking lot)

Foresthill - December 7, 6:30 pm, Foresthill High School Library, 23310
Foresthill Road, (Directions: After turning into the old mill site at the
Foresthill High School sign, follow the road to the left to the
administration building. The library is near the administration building.)

Purpose of the Meetings
The meetings scheduled for November and December are designed to allow each
group leader to present the results of their group discussions to all the
meeting attendees and the TNF representatives. The Forest Service will be
there to listen and learn from your proposal ideas.
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.