Motorized outlaws and bad guys - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Jeepndel · 05-29-2002, 08:23 AM

One of the things we need to do in order to keep the Rubicon open is to stop the motorized outlaws who are tearing up the land and resources (off the trail). It's got to stop or the gov't is going to stop it for us by closing the trail. It's that simple.

We need ideas on how to help folks understand that they just can't do that (anymore). We must stay on the trail and obey the law.

We're going to sign the trail better (see other forum here).
We're going to put up kiosks and info booths and have signs about staying on the trail, Tread Lightly, etc.

But we need to find a way to EDUCATE folks on the need to NOT be a motorized outlaw. We will also help the Sheriff get out on the trail more and do more law enforcement action for those who just don't get the message. I will be the first to report folks being idiots who will not listen to reason.
Del

Aggro · 05-29-2002, 09:49 AM

If they need to be reported...digital camera showing license numbers...and the offending action...

cruzila · 05-29-2002, 09:52 AM

talk about outlaws

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
Office of the Director
Reston, Virginia 20192
In Reply Refer To:
Mail Stop 300
#20020167

Feb. 21, 2002

Mr. Larry Thompson
2319 MeGalliard
Bishop, California 93514

Thank you for your letter dated January 25, 2002, bringing to my attention the matter of a letter to Governor Gray Davis signed by employees of the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). There were two persons identified in the signatures as USGS employees, Lisa Lyren and Chis Haas. Upon investigation, we find that the employees did not consent to the use of their names in association with the USGS, nor was there authorization for use of the USGS logo.

Following the symposium hosted by the California Wilderness Coalition (CWC) in November 2000, some of the participants decided to submit a letter to Governor Davis summarizing the results of the conference. This was done independently of the symposium and was not advocated by the USGS employees involved. After the letter was drafted, Lisa Lyren and Chris Haas, both junior, noncareer employees of the USGS, were asked to sign it by a representative of CWC. They both replied that they would only sign the draft letter as private citizens, not as USGS employees. In fact, the request for signatures from the CWC was sent to their personal e-mail accounts. Both Ms. Lyren and Mr. Haas signed a blank piece of paper that was mailed to CWC using private stationery, postage, and on their own time. The representative of the CWC then scanned the signatures and inserted them into the draft letter. The draft was apparently sent to the San Francisco office of The Nature Conservancy where the USGS affiliations and logo were added to the final letter. Neither the use of the affiliation nor the logo was authorized by the employees involved or anyone else in USGS.

We were unaware that we had been misrepresented until we received your letter. Both Ms. Lyren and Mr. Haas were acting as private citizen. Immediately upon being informed of this misrepresentation, both employees submitted letters to the CWC asking that their names and affiliations be removed from the letter.

We appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention. Our credibility as scientists is diminished if we are not known for providing objective, impartial, peer-reviewed science to our clients and the public at all times. If you need additional information please let me know.

Sincerely,

/s/ CHARLES GROAT

Charles G. Groat

Director

cc:
Amber Bell - Hatch Act Unit, United States Office of Special Counsel
The Honorable James Hansen
The Honorable Scott McInnis
Vice President Dick Cheney
Tom Knudson - Sacramento Bee

Jeepndel · 06-04-2002, 07:28 AM

It's a shame that a few bad boys can jeopardize our whole sport.
But we can make a difference and curtail them. I'm working on a plan to do that.

thanks for your help,
Del

rckjeep · 06-08-2002, 05:46 PM

I'm with you, I'd like to help with this problem. I was brought up in the sierra's. My Dad and I would go camping,fishing and backpacking up there near Loon Lake almost every weekend during every summer for years.I don't want my access denied because of some jackasses screwing it up for the rest of us. So if I can help with the Cause please let me know.

Dave
__________________________________________________ __
77 CJ7 258 T18 D20w/2low 4" 33's

NOODLES · 06-14-2002, 01:25 AM

Why would you want more officers on the trail doing a job that we can do ourselves are you to scared to get out of your vehicle and tell them to stay on the trail. Go ahead and get out of control with officers up there. Next there will be to many cops and then the cops will be given qoutas to meet because the officers association will want to start ticketing people like crazy on the trail just to fund the trail enforcment project. Oh I know you are 3 miles away from any paved road but here is your mudflap ticket.

Sillyneck · 06-16-2002, 12:30 AM

I got fed up w/ a couple of idiots going throught an illegal marked bypass on the way out just past soup bowl I think.

SO this fuckstain is guiding his girl (driving) areound a broke jeep, mind you there is a rock bypass that is legit on the right of the broke rig and the toyota in question has 40's and fullwidths (capable of doing it cause I did it in 2wd)

So I see them start into the mud and I yell. they proceed to do this shit so I once I could get all the way up to them they were just out of it and I grabbed the key and turned off the ignition (to the girl's surprize) and I began to rip the owner (guy) a new one. He and all the others around coudn't see why I was so pissed until I walked over and picked up the "no motor vehicles" stake they had run into the mud. I made him go back and clean it all up and put some branches and logs on the area to keep others off.

ohhhhh he pissed me off.

I think the self policing thing is great. If I run into an idiot w/ a gun then OH SH!T, but I'm not scared of any other fools. Others need to take this attitude. I know most everyone here is a hardass or as knows enough people around them to talk shit to the wrong doers. hell I was alone and I still got in that f-ers face!

let's do this!

The Jerk · 06-16-2002, 10:34 PM

phil i member you doing this, and this past weekend when craig and i went that area right by the tree that was trampled by that truck and others im sure now looks like the way to go, everything is smushed down and i doubt many people go by the tree or the other route (i did cuz i know thats teh right way and its easy) more red stakes and or work needs to be done by a group on that area quickly. hopefully end of the month cures this for working there, jiMMy

NOODLES · 06-18-2002, 02:40 PM

Siily I know exactly what part you are talkin about. That part was opened up by a jeep with boggers on saturday or friday evening memorial day weekend. I got there friday morning around 8:30 am. It was fine friday morning. I went up this past weekend and there are a few extra parts of the trail that have to be repaired. Some motor bikes ripped a few bypasses open just past ellis creek where the trail splits up to the left up and around the little rock garden thats on the right. the no motorized vehicle signs on the ground. there are a couple spots like that up there. If someone would like to go up there this weekend to handle that I will be glad to go and help. Just PM me. I can't sign up for the work day on the 29 but I will be through there with a freind and his family.

jon bachelder · 06-19-2002, 08:56 AM

What if there was a flyer we could hand out to trail abusers that would educate them. Several years ago down at the springs some people were doing a motorized tug of war right in the river, by the dirty dozen camp area. They were thrashing the vegetation, banks etc.. Merlin (the caretaker) Jim Martin and I grabbed some Tread Lightly flyers we happened to have and walked down there. Without saying a single word we handed out the flyers and the illegal activity stopped in about a minute.
If there was a flyer put out jointly by FOTR, POR, the Hi-Lo's etc..., we all could carry them with us and hand them out to trail abusers. I think it would be pretty effective for the majority of people. It also lessens the risk in confronting people who most likely are under the influence of something, and having it escalate.
A one page bifolded flyer would be inexpensive and the costs can be split by the sponsoring groups.
Thanks to all on this board for the time and energy expended on saving this trail!
Jon Bachelder
Lake Tahoe Hi-Los

Jeepndel · 06-20-2002, 07:36 AM

I LOVE this flyer idea. Definitely a great idea. Here's the deal;
we need someone to take the lead (not necessarily the poor guy that thought it up).

We could get a grant and wait a year or so to have them in our hands, or we can do it ourselves. We'd need thousands of them to send out and pass around to those willing to hand them out.

We'd need someone to take on mailing them out (I just can't do it). FOTR can support the costs most likely of mailing, but I just don't have any more minutes left in my days.

Design would be by small committee (Hi Lo's, FOTR, and POR?)

Talk to me...
Del

jon bachelder · 06-20-2002, 09:35 AM

I will volunteer as a rep for the Hil-Lo's, until and/or unless they want a board member to do it.
JonB

Jeepndel · 06-20-2002, 09:50 AM

Jon, thanks. do me a favor, please. Put the idea into another email, with a little more detail of how you think the thing would look (bifold, info, b&W or color, etc.).

Post it here and on the FOTR list. We can run with it for a while and pin down our plan.
thanks, Del

jon bachelder · 06-20-2002, 11:36 AM

Okay.
JonB

jon bachelder · 06-25-2002, 10:29 PM

Well here are my thoughts on the “Only You Can Save The Rubicon “ (or a better phrase) handout.
I think it should be very cheap to produce, black ink on regular paper, something that can be reproduced by anyone with a copier. That cuts down on mailing costs and the flyer can be reproduced by anyone who wants to help. It should look like the grass roots effort that it is, poorly funded and dependent on buy in from the trail users themselves. Hopefully an un-informed trail abuser will be more likely to identify with a group that does not have funding for slick brochures and it will be easier for us to bring him over to our side.
The Pirates should have top billing as they have more clout than FOTR or the Hi-Lo’s.
It should be brief, listing in priority the reasons that the trail is being scrutinized by Govt. agencies. Followed by a “Here is how you can help” section.
In the “Here is how you can help” section could be blank lines to record data on trail abusers and info on contacting appropriate persons. ( A little reminder to the bad guys that maybe they are being watched ).
Hopefully all this could be printed on one piece of paper. There are numerous ways to format it and a good graphics person (I am not) could figure out the best way.
What I like best about handing a trail abuser a flyer, rather than chewing them a new a$$hole is that they don’t lose face. I know we all just want to beat the living crap out of these morons, but when you confront a person in front of his friends/family and make him look like a fool, he will probably be pretty resentful. And there is a good chance that, as soon as he is out of your sight he will tear up the trail just out of spite. What will help us more, is to make allies out of folks who may not know any better.

Those are my thoughts on the flyer. I know there is a lot of improvements that can be made and welcome all ideas. It would be nice to have some of these for July 4th but I will not have time to do it.
Thanks,
Jon Bachelder

Mrs. Maniac · 06-26-2002, 08:49 AM

I like this idea. As it happens I was a witness to that tug of war years ago and you related it exactly as I remembered it. No one said a word, but they stopped almost immediately. I'm printing this out to give to Mike so he can bring it up with the Pirates.

Jeepndel · 06-27-2002, 06:35 AM

I too like this idea. A simple flyer that can cover the facts and the threat, but not cause a lose-face situation. It might be a great solution. Let's face it, none of us like to be told in public that we're dip wads.

So now we'll wait to hear what the POR folks say, then maybe find us a guru to develop us a downloadable version in B and W.

Jon, would you post a sim version of your message to the FOTR list for me please. let them know the POR folks are looking into taking the lead on this or at least figuring out if they like the idea.
thanks, Del

jon bachelder · 06-28-2002, 10:18 AM

This was made using MS Publisher, the crossed lines newsletter format. Feel free to edit, insert graphics and facts.
I hope this works as I have never attempted it before.

I guess it won't be accepted because it is a .pub file, not a gif or jpeg. Being the moron that I am, can someone tell me how to do this?
JonB

Jeepndel · 06-28-2002, 10:31 AM

Boy, and I was going to be happy with a WORD file that anyone could print out. ??
Del

Lance · 06-30-2002, 01:46 PM

John, email it to me.

lance@pirate4x4.com

jon bachelder · 07-01-2002, 08:57 PM

Lance,
Tried to email that file, hope it worked.
JonB

MikeCAjeeper · 07-05-2002, 02:31 PM

A few thoughts on a flyer...

1. Make it available online where anyone or club can just print them out as they need them. Should be one sided for easier multiple printing or copying. Maybe Adobe Acrobat® format.

2. Maybe a three fold design so they are more compact.

Here is kind of a example of what I'm talking about. It is one of our club flyers. It's two sided though.

http://californiajeeper.com/mlrc/forms/Flyer.pdf

or at http://californiajeeper.com/mlrc/forms/Flyer.pdf

moveaside · 07-07-2002, 10:30 AM

Spike Strips

Seems to be the violater is going to listen to what you have to say now he's not going anywhere for awhile. Seriously some of these people are just ignorant and don't know better and the only way they will know is if you see it speak up about it. If you can't catch up to them radio ahead to someone to stop them. And for the guys that do it all the time and don't give a crap spike strips sound like the way to go

05-29-2002, 08:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jeepndel Land Use Zeus Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 3982 Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA, USA Posts: 2,584	Motorized outlaws and bad guys One of the things we need to do in order to keep the Rubicon open is to stop the motorized outlaws who are tearing up the land and resources (off the trail). It's got to stop or the gov't is going to stop it for us by closing the trail. It's that simple. We need ideas on how to help folks understand that they just can't do that (anymore). We must stay on the trail and obey the law. We're going to sign the trail better (see other forum here). We're going to put up kiosks and info booths and have signs about staying on the trail, Tread Lightly, etc. But we need to find a way to EDUCATE folks on the need to NOT be a motorized outlaw. We will also help the Sheriff get out on the trail more and do more law enforcement action for those who just don't get the message. I will be the first to report folks being idiots who will not listen to reason. Del __________________ Del Albright BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador Co-Founder, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Building an Access Army to Fight Back -- SOLDIER UP Follow the Trail Tours TAPT

05-29-2002, 09:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
cruzila Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: Aug 2001 Member # 6650 Location: Garden Valley Posts: 5,383	Talk about outlaws talk about outlaws UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY Office of the Director Reston, Virginia 20192 In Reply Refer To: Mail Stop 300 #20020167 Feb. 21, 2002 Mr. Larry Thompson 2319 MeGalliard Bishop, California 93514 Thank you for your letter dated January 25, 2002, bringing to my attention the matter of a letter to Governor Gray Davis signed by employees of the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). There were two persons identified in the signatures as USGS employees, Lisa Lyren and Chis Haas. Upon investigation, we find that the employees did not consent to the use of their names in association with the USGS, nor was there authorization for use of the USGS logo. Following the symposium hosted by the California Wilderness Coalition (CWC) in November 2000, some of the participants decided to submit a letter to Governor Davis summarizing the results of the conference. This was done independently of the symposium and was not advocated by the USGS employees involved. After the letter was drafted, Lisa Lyren and Chris Haas, both junior, noncareer employees of the USGS, were asked to sign it by a representative of CWC. They both replied that they would only sign the draft letter as private citizens, not as USGS employees. In fact, the request for signatures from the CWC was sent to their personal e-mail accounts. Both Ms. Lyren and Mr. Haas signed a blank piece of paper that was mailed to CWC using private stationery, postage, and on their own time. The representative of the CWC then scanned the signatures and inserted them into the draft letter. The draft was apparently sent to the San Francisco office of The Nature Conservancy where the USGS affiliations and logo were added to the final letter. Neither the use of the affiliation nor the logo was authorized by the employees involved or anyone else in USGS. We were unaware that we had been misrepresented until we received your letter. Both Ms. Lyren and Mr. Haas were acting as private citizen. Immediately upon being informed of this misrepresentation, both employees submitted letters to the CWC asking that their names and affiliations be removed from the letter. We appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention. Our credibility as scientists is diminished if we are not known for providing objective, impartial, peer-reviewed science to our clients and the public at all times. If you need additional information please let me know. Sincerely, /s/ CHARLES GROAT Charles G. Groat Director cc: Amber Bell - Hatch Act Unit, United States Office of Special Counsel The Honorable James Hansen The Honorable Scott McInnis Vice President Dick Cheney Tom Knudson - Sacramento Bee __________________ Scott Johnston Rubicon Trail Foundation Founding Director and Past President 2010-2012 WIN a fully built Toyota pickup at Cantina 2013 Davez Off Road and Trail Gear are supporting Rubicon Trail Foundation

06-04-2002, 07:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jeepndel Land Use Zeus Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 3982 Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA, USA Posts: 2,584	It's a shame that a few bad boys can jeopardize our whole sport. But we can make a difference and curtail them. I'm working on a plan to do that. thanks for your help, Del __________________ Del Albright BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador Co-Founder, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Building an Access Army to Fight Back -- SOLDIER UP Follow the Trail Tours TAPT

06-08-2002, 05:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
rckjeep Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Member # 9246 Location: San Jose Posts: 605	trail idiots I'm with you, I'd like to help with this problem. I was brought up in the sierra's. My Dad and I would go camping,fishing and backpacking up there near Loon Lake almost every weekend during every summer for years.I don't want my access denied because of some jackasses screwing it up for the rest of us. So if I can help with the Cause please let me know. Dave __________________________________________________ __ 77 CJ7 258 T18 D20w/2low 4" 33's

06-16-2002, 12:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sillyneck Pissing Excellence Join Date: Mar 2000 Member # 517 Location: Sacramento, ca Posts: 12,345	I got fed up w/ a couple of idiots going throught an illegal marked bypass on the way out just past soup bowl I think. SO this fuckstain is guiding his girl (driving) areound a broke jeep, mind you there is a rock bypass that is legit on the right of the broke rig and the toyota in question has 40's and fullwidths (capable of doing it cause I did it in 2wd) So I see them start into the mud and I yell. they proceed to do this shit so I once I could get all the way up to them they were just out of it and I grabbed the key and turned off the ignition (to the girl's surprize) and I began to rip the owner (guy) a new one. He and all the others around coudn't see why I was so pissed until I walked over and picked up the "no motor vehicles" stake they had run into the mud. I made him go back and clean it all up and put some branches and logs on the area to keep others off. ohhhhh he pissed me off. I think the self policing thing is great. If I run into an idiot w/ a gun then OH SH!T, but I'm not scared of any other fools. Others need to take this attitude. I know most everyone here is a hardass or as knows enough people around them to talk shit to the wrong doers. hell I was alone and I still got in that f-ers face! let's do this! __________________ www.sfsindustries.com www.facebook.com/plicciardi 4457 Team DMR Off Road Warehouse MJ Motorsports Yukon Ruffstuff Driveline Service Sacramento Wrap Concept Barnes Welding Supply Sacramento

05-29-2002, 09:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Aggro Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Dec 2000 Member # 2587 Location: 3845.859N 12034.534W (N. Ca) Future location of beachfront property. Posts: 4,008	If they need to be reported...digital camera showing license numbers...and the offending action...

06-14-2002, 01:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
NOODLES Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3132 Location: under a rock Posts: 4,885	Why would you want more officers on the trail doing a job that we can do ourselves are you to scared to get out of your vehicle and tell them to stay on the trail. Go ahead and get out of control with officers up there. Next there will be to many cops and then the cops will be given qoutas to meet because the officers association will want to start ticketing people like crazy on the trail just to fund the trail enforcment project. Oh I know you are 3 miles away from any paved road but here is your mudflap ticket.

06-16-2002, 10:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
The Jerk Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 107 Location: Pollock Pines Ca Posts: 14,135	phil i member you doing this, and this past weekend when craig and i went that area right by the tree that was trampled by that truck and others im sure now looks like the way to go, everything is smushed down and i doubt many people go by the tree or the other route (i did cuz i know thats teh right way and its easy) more red stakes and or work needs to be done by a group on that area quickly. hopefully end of the month cures this for working there, jiMMy __________________ RockZombie:68FJ40 LPG350/sm420/d300/d60/d70

06-18-2002, 02:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
NOODLES Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3132 Location: under a rock Posts: 4,885	Siily I know exactly what part you are talkin about. That part was opened up by a jeep with boggers on saturday or friday evening memorial day weekend. I got there friday morning around 8:30 am. It was fine friday morning. I went up this past weekend and there are a few extra parts of the trail that have to be repaired. Some motor bikes ripped a few bypasses open just past ellis creek where the trail splits up to the left up and around the little rock garden thats on the right. the no motorized vehicle signs on the ground. there are a couple spots like that up there. If someone would like to go up there this weekend to handle that I will be glad to go and help. Just PM me. I can't sign up for the work day on the 29 but I will be through there with a freind and his family.

06-19-2002, 08:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
jon bachelder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2993 Location: south lake tahoe,ca Posts: 317	What if there was a flyer we could hand out to trail abusers that would educate them. Several years ago down at the springs some people were doing a motorized tug of war right in the river, by the dirty dozen camp area. They were thrashing the vegetation, banks etc.. Merlin (the caretaker) Jim Martin and I grabbed some Tread Lightly flyers we happened to have and walked down there. Without saying a single word we handed out the flyers and the illegal activity stopped in about a minute. If there was a flyer put out jointly by FOTR, POR, the Hi-Lo's etc..., we all could carry them with us and hand them out to trail abusers. I think it would be pretty effective for the majority of people. It also lessens the risk in confronting people who most likely are under the influence of something, and having it escalate. A one page bifolded flyer would be inexpensive and the costs can be split by the sponsoring groups. Thanks to all on this board for the time and energy expended on saving this trail! Jon Bachelder Lake Tahoe Hi-Los __________________ JonB Lake Tahoe Hi-Lo's if you aint broke then fix it till you are!

06-20-2002, 07:36 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jeepndel Land Use Zeus Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 3982 Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA, USA Posts: 2,584	I LOVE this flyer idea. Definitely a great idea. Here's the deal; we need someone to take the lead (not necessarily the poor guy that thought it up). We could get a grant and wait a year or so to have them in our hands, or we can do it ourselves. We'd need thousands of them to send out and pass around to those willing to hand them out. We'd need someone to take on mailing them out (I just can't do it). FOTR can support the costs most likely of mailing, but I just don't have any more minutes left in my days. Design would be by small committee (Hi Lo's, FOTR, and POR?) Talk to me... Del __________________ Del Albright BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador Co-Founder, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Building an Access Army to Fight Back -- SOLDIER UP Follow the Trail Tours TAPT

06-20-2002, 09:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
jon bachelder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2993 Location: south lake tahoe,ca Posts: 317	I will volunteer as a rep for the Hil-Lo's, until and/or unless they want a board member to do it. JonB __________________ JonB Lake Tahoe Hi-Lo's if you aint broke then fix it till you are!

06-20-2002, 09:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Jeepndel Land Use Zeus Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 3982 Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA, USA Posts: 2,584	Jon, thanks. do me a favor, please. Put the idea into another email, with a little more detail of how you think the thing would look (bifold, info, b&W or color, etc.). Post it here and on the FOTR list. We can run with it for a while and pin down our plan. thanks, Del __________________ Del Albright BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador Co-Founder, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Building an Access Army to Fight Back -- SOLDIER UP Follow the Trail Tours TAPT

06-20-2002, 11:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
jon bachelder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2993 Location: south lake tahoe,ca Posts: 317	Okay. JonB __________________ JonB Lake Tahoe Hi-Lo's if you aint broke then fix it till you are!

06-25-2002, 10:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
jon bachelder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2993 Location: south lake tahoe,ca Posts: 317	Well here are my thoughts on the “Only You Can Save The Rubicon “ (or a better phrase) handout. I think it should be very cheap to produce, black ink on regular paper, something that can be reproduced by anyone with a copier. That cuts down on mailing costs and the flyer can be reproduced by anyone who wants to help. It should look like the grass roots effort that it is, poorly funded and dependent on buy in from the trail users themselves. Hopefully an un-informed trail abuser will be more likely to identify with a group that does not have funding for slick brochures and it will be easier for us to bring him over to our side. The Pirates should have top billing as they have more clout than FOTR or the Hi-Lo’s. It should be brief, listing in priority the reasons that the trail is being scrutinized by Govt. agencies. Followed by a “Here is how you can help” section. In the “Here is how you can help” section could be blank lines to record data on trail abusers and info on contacting appropriate persons. ( A little reminder to the bad guys that maybe they are being watched ). Hopefully all this could be printed on one piece of paper. There are numerous ways to format it and a good graphics person (I am not) could figure out the best way. What I like best about handing a trail abuser a flyer, rather than chewing them a new a$$hole is that they don’t lose face. I know we all just want to beat the living crap out of these morons, but when you confront a person in front of his friends/family and make him look like a fool, he will probably be pretty resentful. And there is a good chance that, as soon as he is out of your sight he will tear up the trail just out of spite. What will help us more, is to make allies out of folks who may not know any better. Those are my thoughts on the flyer. I know there is a lot of improvements that can be made and welcome all ideas. It would be nice to have some of these for July 4th but I will not have time to do it. Thanks, Jon Bachelder __________________ JonB Lake Tahoe Hi-Lo's if you aint broke then fix it till you are!

06-30-2002, 01:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
Lance Administrator Join Date: Jun 1996 Member # 1 Location: El Dorado Hills, CA Posts: 18,734 Blog Entries: 1	John, email it to me. lance@pirate4x4.com

06-26-2002, 08:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
Mrs. Maniac Pirate Chick Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 110 Location: El Dorado, CA Posts: 490	I like this idea. As it happens I was a witness to that tug of war years ago and you related it exactly as I remembered it. No one said a word, but they stopped almost immediately. I'm printing this out to give to Mike so he can bring it up with the Pirates.

06-27-2002, 06:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
Jeepndel Land Use Zeus Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 3982 Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA, USA Posts: 2,584	I too like this idea. A simple flyer that can cover the facts and the threat, but not cause a lose-face situation. It might be a great solution. Let's face it, none of us like to be told in public that we're dip wads. So now we'll wait to hear what the POR folks say, then maybe find us a guru to develop us a downloadable version in B and W. Jon, would you post a sim version of your message to the FOTR list for me please. let them know the POR folks are looking into taking the lead on this or at least figuring out if they like the idea. thanks, Del __________________ Del Albright BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador Co-Founder, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Building an Access Army to Fight Back -- SOLDIER UP Follow the Trail Tours TAPT

06-28-2002, 10:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
jon bachelder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2993 Location: south lake tahoe,ca Posts: 317	This was made using MS Publisher, the crossed lines newsletter format. Feel free to edit, insert graphics and facts. I hope this works as I have never attempted it before. I guess it won't be accepted because it is a .pub file, not a gif or jpeg. Being the moron that I am, can someone tell me how to do this? JonB __________________ JonB Lake Tahoe Hi-Lo's if you aint broke then fix it till you are!

06-28-2002, 10:31 AM	#19 (permalink)
Jeepndel Land Use Zeus Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 3982 Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA, USA Posts: 2,584	Boy, and I was going to be happy with a WORD file that anyone could print out. ?? Del __________________ Del Albright BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador Co-Founder, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Building an Access Army to Fight Back -- SOLDIER UP Follow the Trail Tours TAPT

07-01-2002, 08:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
jon bachelder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2993 Location: south lake tahoe,ca Posts: 317	Lance, Tried to email that file, hope it worked. JonB __________________ JonB Lake Tahoe Hi-Lo's if you aint broke then fix it till you are!

07-05-2002, 02:31 PM	#22 (permalink)
MikeCAjeeper Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Member # 12197 Location: Salida, CA Posts: 7	FLYER A few thoughts on a flyer... 1. Make it available online where anyone or club can just print them out as they need them. Should be one sided for easier multiple printing or copying. Maybe Adobe Acrobat® format. 2. Maybe a three fold design so they are more compact. Here is kind of a example of what I'm talking about. It is one of our club flyers. It's two sided though. http://californiajeeper.com/mlrc/forms/Flyer.pdf or at http://californiajeeper.com/mlrc/forms/Flyer.pdf __________________ Don't shoot the messenger...Send him back in pieces... Mike Stoller, californiajeeper.com Vice President Motherlode Rockcrawlers, motherloderockcrawlers.com Last edited by MikeCAjeeper; 07-05-2002 at 02:33 PM.

07-07-2002, 10:30 AM	#23 (permalink)
moveaside Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 11983 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 2,958	Spike Strips Seems to be the violater is going to listen to what you have to say now he's not going anywhere for awhile. Seriously some of these people are just ignorant and don't know better and the only way they will know is if you see it speak up about it. If you can't catch up to them radio ahead to someone to stop them. And for the guys that do it all the time and don't give a crap spike strips sound like the way to go __________________ My crappy build [url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=587635[/url]

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