Trail Markers & Signs

[thedick4x4]

Is there going to be any trail marking on the June 30th work weekend?

I've never been to the con, but I would like to be able to in the future. It sounds to me that it's going to be closed before we know it!

Why not put up a fence like some of the other parks and areas?

I bet if each member of PBB and other boards pitch in $20 we would have more than enough funds to buy materials, schedule a few work weekends to install it. I know nobody wants a fence or gates like you see at other parks and FS roads, but it would help keep the newbies like me and vetrans alike on the clearly marked trail.

Post signs at the trail heads stating severe penalty will result from going off trail (like impounding vehicle)

I dissagree with giving someone a ticket for going off trail when you're unsure where the trail is!

Just an idea to help preserve the trail and keep it open as long as possible.

Thanks for listening,
Matt

[jtraver]

thats all i got to say about putting up a gate and fences

[Rubicrawler]

I will never support fences or gates! We've worked long and hard to keep that from happening so let's not even go there.

IMO, the trail is well marked and we will continue to work to make the trail easily located but it's up to the user to educate themselves before they hit the trail. Being herded like cattle with fences is not the answer

[Simple Man]

You guys need to chill out a little bit.

Re-read the original post. He never suggested a gate.

He did suggest a fence, and guess what, a fence is going up this weekend. It will keep people from the lower route around Gatekeeper that goes across private property.

I do not feel that the trail is marker well enough. I do not want to drive the trail with a fence on both sides of me but in places a fence makes sence.


Doug

[jtraver]

"I know nobody wants a fence or gates like you see at other parks and FS roads, but it would help keep the newbies like me and vetrans alike on the clearly marked trail."

I see the project at Gatekeeper as more of a blockage not a fence either way it's still the same result KEEP PEOPLE OUT.(We were up there a couple weeks ago and had a talk with 3 Jeeps coming up from the bottom of Gatekeeper, they drove right over the rock pile and trail signs)I agree the trail is not marked all that well for newbies to the trail but the Kiosk has maps that will help. Also go with people that know the trail or participate on work weekends to help keep the trails open. See you all on Saturday for more digging and fixing.

Jack

[MiniSimp]

Originally Posted by Simple Man

but in places a fence makes sence.

It didn't sound like he wanted to fenceline the entire trail to me. Just the off trail areas that people like to go.

I think a fence, or trees placed in the bypasses would be a good idea, also maybe 50' spaced stakes for hard to mark off trail areas of the trail.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally Posted by Simple Man

You guys need to chill out a little bit.

As you suggested, I re-read his post and don't feel like I need to "Chill Out"

There's a trend lately among newer users of the Rubicon is to blame everyone else for the issues on the trail and accept no personal responsibility. For someone that has never been on the trail to suggest we all pitch in and build a fence along the trail so people know where the trail is just hit me as wrong

Just my opinion

[1uglyranger]

Originally Posted by Rubicrawler

There's a trend lately among newer users of the Rubicon is to blame everyone else for the issues on the trail and accept no personal responsibility. For someone that has never been on the trail to suggest we all pitch in and build a fence along the trail so people know where the trail is just hit me as wrong

This is the no-blame state Mark

I agree, I never led, or hit the trail alone for the first 3-4 times on the trail because I didn't know exactly where to go.....if you don't know....learn.... If you don't want to learn...stay home

[Rubicrawler]

Originally Posted by MiniSimp

I think a fence, or trees placed in the bypasses would be a good idea

That's a great idea! FOTR's been doing that for the past 5 years and we'll keep doing it as needed

[jeeperrick]

I would agree that off limit areas need to be blocked, but this should be done with items at hand ie: logs and rocks. The occasional FS marker works as well, but to use something other just takes away from the beauty of the trail.
As for those first timers on the trail, there are plenty of places to gather information regarding the routes to take, and of course one can always ask other people on the trail.
I see fences leading to gates and that should not be an option.
Just my .02

[Rollie]

Originally Posted by thedick4x4

Is there going to be any trail marking on the June 30th work weekend?

I've never been to the con, but I would like to be able to in the future. It sounds to me that it's going to be closed before we know it!

Why not put up a fence like some of the other parks and areas?

I bet if each member of PBB and other boards pitch in $20 we would have more than enough funds to buy materials, schedule a few work weekends to install it. I know nobody wants a fence or gates like you see at other parks and FS roads, but it would help keep the newbies like me and vetrans alike on the clearly marked trail.

Post signs at the trail heads stating severe penalty will result from going off trail (like impounding vehicle)

I dissagree with giving someone a ticket for going off trail when you're unsure where the trail is!

Just an idea to help preserve the trail and keep it open as long as possible.

Thanks for listening,
Matt

Let me guess. Your with the Sierra Club

[jtraver]

[randii]

This forum always amazes me to see so many people so closely aligned, but so focused on the minute difference between -- whether it be tire size, beverage choice, vehicle brand, etc.

We're all in it together, guys, don't MAKE me lead a rousing round of Kum-Bah-Yah!

As is so frequently the case, there are good points on each 'side' of the closely-related issues:
* we're scared of fences, which can lead to gates, which can be used to lock us out
* we're trying to define the trail better to make it easier to stay legal
* nobody wants to see rumble strips, white fog lines, yellow dashed lines, and reflectors every 20 feet
* users need to be more pro-active to learn the trail and stay on it (that goes for new-bies who don't know better *AND* old-bies who think they know better!)

FWIW and FYI, FOTR has been working hard with the various agencies to publish usable maps of the trail, and will be posting said maps this very weekend at several trailheads. FOTR will also be doing a LIMITED amount of range-fencing in small areas where less-invasive trail markings have proved insufficient.

Randii

[cruzila]

Originally Posted by Rubicrawler

As you suggested, I re-read his post and don't feel like I need to "Chill Out"

I figured you would think he meant you needed a frosty beverage

[thedick4x4]

Originally Posted by Rubicrawler

As you suggested, I re-read his post and don't feel like I need to "Chill Out"

There's a trend lately among newer users of the Rubicon is to blame everyone else for the issues on the trail and accept no personal responsibility. For someone that has never been on the trail to suggest we all pitch in and build a fence along the trail so people know where the trail is just hit me as wrong

Just my opinion

first of all i just thought i would throw out an idea. thats right ive never been there, ive also have read numerous posts of people posting their con trips of a fun weekend and getting flamed because they were off the trail (i totally understand if they are thrashing on any vegatation, that should go without saying). second, i agree with you about it being everyones personal responsibility to research an area before going. me personally will be going with people that have been there plenty of times so that they know where and where not to go, as i dont want to get a ticket and above all be part of the reason they close down the trail.

Maybe the fence idea isnt such a great idea, since thats how alot of trail closers start, which after thinking about it for awhile, remembered thats how clear creek started out(one gate, now at least 7 gates. since the last time i was out there.)

[thedick4x4]

IMO you cant expect everyone to research trails before they go. thats why we still get people going off designated trails, im not just talking about the rubicon either. sure its the users responsability to get the correct info before wheeling at a new spot, but what some of you are failing to realize is that a lot of us that are on PPB and other forums know how important it is to stay on trails and to "tread lightly" but it only takes a few ignorant people to ruin it for all of us. we need to remember that there are more tree huggers and hippies than us, they usally have the popular vote on their side, they also have a lot more time on thier hands than most of us do. i salute you guys that are making the time in your busy lives fighting to keep our trails open. my whole point is this, you cant expect everyone to stay on trail without the proper signs or atleast something that clearly states "DONT FAWKIN GO BEYOND THIS POINT"

thats just my opinion

[randii]

All ideas are welcome, just be aware that gates (and fences) are a flash point, since that's one of the things that sparked Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) in the first place, and pulled us together from all of our separate memberships, allegiances, and etc.

It is frustrating to figure out where the trail is, but most of the big questions IMHO result from users not being aware of the stuff for which much effort has been expended to inform. The 25'-from-the-center discussion and Route Dez closures have been hammered here and other places -- if users talk at ALL on the trail, the word should be out by now...

This thread has a great core message of individual responsibility. I find that VERY reassuring... if users become more proactive and less reactive with respect to changing rules, there is better chance of working those agencies to improve those rules.

Mr thedick, I hope you do get a chance to run the Rubicon Trail -- it is an awesome, memorable trail! If you do it after the upcoming holiday weekend, you should have better trailhead maps and trail markers to stay out of trouble.

Randii

[MiniSimp]

Originally Posted by randii

Mr thedick,.....

Yes, I have a 10 year olds humor.

[Rubicrawler]

Randii- your ability to express the feeling of the group in a single post is amazing!

Mr thedick, like Randii said, I hope you get a chance to run the trail and experience the beauty and serenity that is the Rubicon. I've been enjoying it since my 1st run in 1975 and it's truly a jewel to be cherished

[1uglyranger]

Originally Posted by Rubicrawler

I've been enjoying it since my 1st run in 1975 and it's truly a jewel to be cherished

Holy crap...thats 4 years before I was born

[atvobsession]

Originally Posted by 1uglyranger

Holy crap...thats 4 years before I was born

Mark's old.

Note: Poster is old too.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally Posted by atvobsession

Mark's old.

Note: Poster is old too.

You owe me a beer for that one

[randii]

Originally Posted by randii

...FOTR has been working hard with the various agencies to publish usable maps of the trail, and will be posting said maps this very weekend at several trailheads. FOTR will also be doing a LIMITED amount of range-fencing in small areas where less-invasive trail markings have proved insufficient.

FOTR cleared this map with Eldorado National Forest and El Dorado County, and though they can't formally bless it until their respective plans come out, they have provided comments to it and aware that we posted it at the Loon Kiosk, at the old trail route near Airport Flat, and at the turn-off to Wentworth Springs. We'll be catching up with the Tahoe sides and working to get copies posted in Rubicon Springs and elsewhere, as well...



El Dorado County is planning to print up 50K of these maps for distribution in 8.5x14 format -- in the meantime, they will be at the trailheads in poster size.

Randii

[randii]

Additionally, there was a small crew of epoxy fume-addled volunteers working the Loon Lake slabs on Saturday. I walked the trail in the afternoon, and was much impressed by what they got done -- I just wish I had stayed to see them light up with headlights!

There is a much better balance of reflectors vs. open space now -- still nothing like a highway, with stripes, dots, and rumble strips every few feet. This should help folks stay legal on this section of trail, and FOTR will continue to put up the yellow diamond signs in sections of the trail where there are trees.

Range-fencing was done in as few places as possible, but as many as necessary to block off a section of unapproved trail. FOTR and the various agencies and owners have marked this section before in multiple ways, and closed it before with less structured blockades with minimal success, so we were forced to up the ante to range fence:

Up close, the range fencing is massive, and fairly intimidating:



From further up on the slab (not even all the way up to the trail), the fence is not obvious, and blends well with the native materials used to construct it. Click for wide-angle view:


Please honor these fences, and make use of the maps and markers to stay on the trail. Failing to do so will threaten access to the nearby Rubicon Trail itself.

Randii

[navy-jeepster]

For a first timer that was led my Mike Overmeyer on part of the trail this past weekend, I think the signs and other things in place to keep people on the trail was outstanding. Take a look at the Swamp Lake trail, where it has like no signs, and you will see that the FOTR group here has done an outstanding job of trying to keep people on this trail, and in compliance with the current regulations.

Good job by all the volunteers over the years that have worked on the trail to keep it open for many generations.

My one comment though after talking to a few of the wheelers on the trail this weekend!

Of the 10 that I talked to, only 2 or 3 where members of any club or organization that supports wheeling or OHV interests.

For those that are members of a local club, state association, or other national organization (BRC, United), get them to join.
As Del says, join all that you can afford to join.

Thanks

Todd
United Four Wheel Drive Association
Interim Director of Environmental Affairs