RTF purchases property!! - Page 6 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Rubicon Trail
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2015, 07:35 PM   #126 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,332
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davec107 View Post
Bebe, did you ever get a response from Pearce ? I didn't see one. Not surprising, he jumps in to post trying to bully with his threats of trespass violations. His helicopter views of the trail are to do nothing but count dollar signs for his JJUSA group and to collect the cash from Chrysler. 50 person rock stacking crews to get a company a trail rating. Making big bucks off public land. Not a true 4wheeler or outdoorsman that's for sure. $$$
I think this is a 2 sided fail. Question is now, how to fix it.

I have not heard back from Pearse, but then I didn't really expect a response. I know he's reading it

Pearse is a businessman, wheeler or not, Mark Smith thought he was good enough to be left in charge. If you respect Mark and what he stood for, you have to respect his decision to keep Pearse in the (proverbial) drivers seat.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-08-2015, 07:41 PM   #127 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 7233
Location: Jefferson
Posts: 21,027
Send a message via AIM to Wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by VERTIGO View Post
I wish I had a private illegally constructed cabin on TPZ zoned property over looking my private lake in the name of "monitoring the watershed".... don't you people understand. This is all about reducing the users near rtp owned property. Meaning reducing as many people who like to recreate on the rubicon As possible. The land owners DONT WANT U THERE! And will go to any means necessary to protect their interest.
Seems like what's going on, along with the old saying of "everything's for sale, for the right price." In this case, that price seems to be increasing their holdings by 60 acres.
Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 06-10-2015, 09:36 AM   #128 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Atv'er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 108773
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearse Umlauf View Post

Mark Smith was originally for giving an easement to RTF to access their property until he found out that they wanted to promote overnight camping on their property.

Mark Smith didn't not know a public 501c3 that he supported using public funds was going allow public access and camping until 3 years after he sold it?

Either you're trying to insult RTF or Mark.....
__________________
Scott McCullough
atvobbsession.com
KI6MLH
Atv'er is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2015, 10:59 AM   #129 (permalink)
Registered User
 
R290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46467
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcraig7 View Post


RTF should donate the property to the County

,
Wow. Really. Would you donate your place too

So. Since nobodys at the table. They are going for easement by adverse possession. That will take 5 years to be able to record a easement. Maybe a resolution will be hammered out before another 5 years goes by.
__________________
73 IH Scout
R290 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 11:52 AM   #130 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 404
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 399
A couple of pages back RTF used the term "Prescriptive Easement". Haven't they been "using" the property they want for 5 years already at least running in and out, inspecting, etc? Could this be a well planned plan B and would this explain why the RTF posters here seem so optimistic? Heck of a coincidence that this comes up right at the 5 year mark of involvement in the property.

Just wondering out loud.............
__________________
Pete Newell 89 4RNR SAS W/ all the goodies. KJ6CXI
Toys on the Rocks FOTR CA4WDC TLCA BRC NRA AMA
Triple Threat Motorsports
chartdog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 12:05 PM   #131 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Atv'er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 108773
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartdog View Post
A couple of pages back RTF used the term "Prescriptive Easement". Haven't they been "using" the property they want for 5 years already at least running in and out, inspecting, etc? Could this be a well planned plan B and would this explain why the RTF posters here seem so optimistic? Heck of a coincidence that this comes up right at the 5 year mark of involvement in the property.

Just wondering out loud.............
To my knowledge they haven't driven a vehicle on the property until recently. So for the last 5 years they been accessing it on foot. I'm hoping now that as more and more information hits the public maybe RTP may be more willing to relook at the possibilities.
__________________
Scott McCullough
atvobbsession.com
KI6MLH
Atv'er is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 12:58 PM   #132 (permalink)
Registered User
 
4x4abc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 109625
Location: La Paz (Mexico)
Posts: 64
here is how Mark Smith handled prescriptive easement difficulties (found in his overpriced "memoirs"):



4x4abc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 01:53 PM   #133 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,332
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Brilliant. Leave it to Harald

Not sure when this occurred but in doing the math it (he was 50), the easement in fact would have existed because it was 5 years after 1972.

Would be cool if someone could dig up the court file.

Sadly, if there is no proof (affidavit and live testimony) of the RTP/RTF easement before 1972 it's a no go. (foot or vehicle doesn't matter).

I really want to support public use of this publicly paid for private property - but I'm just not seeing it.

I'd put it up for sale and make some money off it. Sell it to an individual who can use it for solitude.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 02:55 PM   #134 (permalink)
Registered User
 
R290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46467
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,351
I think everyone needs to remember the master plan. That plan is how to keep the trail open long term.

It is very unfortunate were at this point with an easement. I too would not like what's going on if I owned property. But back to the basics.

This is need for long term access. A judge could rule tommorow to close the trail because of a lawsuit. But owning property would still allow access in most cases. The plan is brilliant. I'm glad I bought those tacos to make it happen.
__________________
73 IH Scout

Last edited by R290; 06-10-2015 at 02:57 PM.
R290 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 03:00 PM   #135 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1746
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 3,403
Being Mark Smith had a seat on both RTF and RTP boards, I am sure he knew exactly what the deal was with the property. Why else would he write the letter on page 5?? It is dated March 2013, well after it was known that camping would be allowed on this piece of property....RTP's story just doesn't add up.
It looks to me like RTP is pulling a fast one now with Marks passing.

It makes me sick to see fellow wheelers doing this to each other.

And I still think buying this property was a dumbass idea on RTF's part.
__________________
Still Politically Uncorrect
BEAR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 03:22 PM   #136 (permalink)
flamethrower
 
Bebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member # 75270
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 9,332
Send a message via Yahoo to Bebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post

It looks to me like RTP is pulling a fast one now with Marks passing.

It makes me sick to see fellow wheelers doing this to each other.
Agreed - Agreed.

It's obvious to me that RTP is royally screwing RTF and there by - the public who's backs earned the funds to purchase it.

Like I said before RTF and RTP both get the dubious walk of shame award.

And you know, if I didn't love Merlin so much - I would really let it fly.
__________________
What's all the Hub-bub about Blue Stars???
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haulin the Groceries AND Haulin the MAIL
Bebe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-10-2015, 05:47 PM   #137 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Member # 128321
Posts: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by R290 View Post
Wow. Really. Would you donate your place too.
To answer your question, if my place was paid for with public funds, quite possibly I would under these circumstances. And further, when I am done with it, it is more likely than not if the right opportunity came along, yes, I will. Do you have any suggestions of a needy, well runned 501c3?

To expand, my comments on this project and the sizeable liability to a private entity comes from a 2010-2011 RTF Budget. In the budget the insurance expenditure was approximately $1100. A project of this magnitude is going to come with a huge liability premium. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprise if the project is insurable.

Public Entities are protected by state statutes with respect to these issues, thus, better positioned to ensure this property stays open to the public.

In addition, I have no faith in the private property argument regarding the trail being closed, yet the public remaining with some rights to access. A limited number of RTF Board Members for the purposes of maintenance, possibly. The balance of the argument is baseless rhetoric.

I believe owning the ingress/egress, as opposed to an easement, brings tremendous value to the property. Giving up 30 net acres for that benefit, plus some contingencies is imo, well worth it.

And, as I have stated continually, remove landowners from the RTF Board. More than one member of RTP has worked diligently to close, restrict or modify, for their personal pleasures, portions of the trail.
cjcraig7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2015, 06:39 AM   #138 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1746
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 3,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcraig7 View Post
And, as I have stated continually, remove landowners from the RTF Board. More than one member of RTP has worked diligently to close, restrict or modify, for their personal pleasures, portions of the trail.
THIS I agree with, it is a major conflict of interest.
With at least 3 that I know of having hands in each pot, it totally ruins any chance of strategy, and when they have to decide what side to be on, I would guess they will side with their own personal interests over that of "public use".
__________________
Still Politically Uncorrect
BEAR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2015, 07:16 AM   #139 (permalink)
Registered User
 
R290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Member # 46467
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,351
To clarify. You mention public money and public entity in the same post. This property was bought with donations. Not public money I.e. tax money.

Just wanted to make that distinction
__________________
73 IH Scout

Last edited by R290; 06-11-2015 at 07:17 AM.
R290 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2015, 08:00 AM   #140 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Atv'er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member # 108773
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
THIS I agree with, it is a major conflict of interest.
With at least 3 that I know of having hands in each pot, it totally ruins any chance of strategy, and when they have to decide what side to be on, I would guess they will side with their own personal interests over that of "public use".
I would have to disagree with you on this one. I could fully understand from the general public perspective but I personally know him and he is one of the biggest advocates for the property (RTF). As far as voting goes anytime there is a RTF board meeting and there voting on what to do next on the easement that would effect RTP he is asked to leave the room. I'm sure the conflict of interest could always be argued.

Unfortunately there just a few people of RTP that are not in favor of the easement other wise it would be done already. But like all of us they are entitled to there opinions especially since they own the land.
__________________
Scott McCullough
atvobbsession.com
KI6MLH
Atv'er is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2015, 08:51 AM   #141 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member # 70933
Location: Albany Oregon
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by R290 View Post
figured this would help too.



This is the property boundary of the RTF land correct? If so can someone map out where the easement to access would be located if RTP and RTF can come to an agreement.
__________________
Weld on Beadlocks with Integrated Anti Coning Technology
Trail-Gear at Deep Discounts

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rockrunner86 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2015, 02:08 PM   #142 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SlowMo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26623
Location: Cameron Park, CA
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by renolaw View Post
about 4 years ago we were well in front of a corporate run with all the new jeep vehicles and met some nice stackers (one guy only had one arm and that guy was strong) but then over radio heard of a rig flopped at walker hill so we turned around to see if we could help. In doing so the corporate/media run got past us. mistake. We lumbered behind them all the way to RS.

kind requests to please let us pass ignored. and they took a lot of food/piss breaks and really hogged the trail. but none shall pass...


edit: the flopped rig was not part of the corporate group. we were being good samaritans
Hey, I know THAT guy. He is me. To your point regarding not letting you pass. We try our best to keep our groups together. If this is the trip I'm thinking about I was at Walker when the rig flipped. Despite the help we offered him, as well as others, he actually blocked the trail for quite some time. The El Dorado County road crew was also at the top of Walker trying to get down and were worried that they were going to have to pay the workers OT. So once the rig was cleared we let them get out before we started up. The guy who had flopped had gotten into the middle of our group. Which is a good example of why, sometimes we are reluctant to let other rigs get in the middle. That being said, we will try and let rigs get passed us if we are obviously holding them up. Sometimes that just doesn't work out though. I also seem to recall asking the group behind us (I'm guessing that was you) if they wanted to pass and they indicated they were not in any rush.
__________________
This Jeep sponsered by the IRS and my tax refund.

Last edited by SlowMo; 06-12-2015 at 02:10 PM.
SlowMo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2015, 02:58 PM   #143 (permalink)
Rock God
 
renolaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Member # 12908
Location: Poundtown, NV
Posts: 1,328
slo mo tnx for the comment. we did enjoy seeing the new jeeps and meeting the nice stacker crew. (and got some pix with Mr. Pewe) I did not have direct interaction with anyone once we got behind ur group. My passenger did run up and ask (around million dollar hill) the last rig and the drag stackers apparently said no. He came back upset. Maybe it's his personality. We eventually just stopped at bottom of indian trail and parked for a while to let u guys get ahead. No fun tailgating. One time AJC stopped at Buck for lunch. If you wanted to get by, good luck. parked rigs on trail all over...

To this day we still fondly remember you as one tough dude. Keep it up.
__________________
'81 CJ8
'01 2500 HD 8.1/Ali

Life Member BRC
Cal 4 Wheel.
ECV #3691

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
renolaw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2015, 03:58 PM   #144 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sierravalley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Member # 77176
Location: Sierra Valley
Posts: 1,202
Send a message via Skype™ to sierravalley
Yeah I came up and asked you guys nicely several times to let us by you guys since we were a much faster group. We got declined every time.
sierravalley is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2015, 06:17 PM   #145 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 993
Location: Hangtown, CA
Posts: 1,602
^my experience with the corporate trip too.
__________________
USMC 0351
Rock Zombie
bagman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2015, 03:43 PM   #146 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SlowMo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member # 26623
Location: Cameron Park, CA
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierravalley View Post
Yeah I came up and asked you guys nicely several times to let us by you guys since we were a much faster group. We got declined every time.
Sorry about that. If it had been up to me I would have let you pass if it looked like we were holding you up. I've been stuck behind slow groups before, and I know that's not fun. Usually those corporate trips are fairly small groups. So, unlike the big public trip, it's not a big deal to let a few rigs pass us. Unfortunately, sometimes when we do that, that rig ends up holding us up (i.e. a roll over, breakage, etc.).

Thanks for being cool about it.
__________________
This Jeep sponsered by the IRS and my tax refund.
SlowMo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2015, 07:26 PM   #147 (permalink)
Rock God
 
Curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20205
Location: California
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowMo View Post
Sorry about that. If it had been up to me I would have let you pass if it looked like we were holding you up.

Thanks for being cool about it.
So exactly who is this up to? Who would be the person to make the final decision on whether or not to block or slow the trail for regular traffic?
__________________
KI6PPU
It's very black and white. It becomes Gray when you give quarter....
Curly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2015, 09:27 PM   #148 (permalink)
Granit Technician
 
lil,yota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102395
Location: At the Lab
Posts: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly View Post
So exactly who is this up to? Who would be the person to make the final decision on whether or not to block or slow the trail for regular traffic?



The person that needs a hammers pass
__________________
If you were twice as smart you would still be stupid!



But, as with most evil people, they live unnaturally long lives.

Dr Danger
lil,yota is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2015, 09:50 PM   #149 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 993
Location: Hangtown, CA
Posts: 1,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowMo View Post
Sorry about that. If it had been up to me I would have let you pass if it looked like we were holding you up. I've been stuck behind slow groups before, and I know that's not fun. Usually those corporate trips are fairly small groups. So, unlike the big public trip, it's not a big deal to let a few rigs pass us. Unfortunately, sometimes when we do that, that rig ends up holding us up (i.e. a roll over, breakage, etc.).

Thanks for being cool about it.
This really deserves another thread. The Wine and Cheese Jeeping mentality.
So if you don't see a rig flopped, or broken it is not a priority to lend a hand, cuz that would slow you down. Way to promote community and comrodity to new Jeepers.

And there's the split. Those who see this a lifestyle vs those who see the trail a profit machine. Those who just enjoy being there, anywhere on the trail vs those who view the springs as the destination for Corporate schmoozing.

I'd say you missed the point more you than you will ever know.
__________________
USMC 0351
Rock Zombie
bagman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2015, 10:08 PM   #150 (permalink)
Registered User
 
djelliott916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Member # 134532
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagman View Post
This really deserves another thread. The Wine and Cheese Jeeping mentality.
So if you don't see a rig flopped, or broken it is not a priority to lend a hand, cuz that would slow you down. Way to promote community and comrodity to new Jeepers.

And there's the split. Those who see this a lifestyle vs those who see the trail a profit machine. Those who just enjoy being there, anywhere on the trail vs those who view the springs as the destination for Corporate schmoozing.

I'd say you missed the point more you than you will ever know.
Amen!!

Holy shit! With their noses in the air!
djelliott916 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.