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Thoughts on Syncrowave 300S?

8K views 14 replies 6 participants last post by  PAToyota 
#1 · (Edited)
Thoughts on Syncrowave 300S, 250, 180?

Took a look at the following Syncrowave - says it is an early 80s model and they want a bit under a grand for it. I've downloaded the owner's manual and have been looking through it. I had been looking at/for a 250DX but new is out of my price range and haven't seen any used ones that I wanted to buy for the money they were asking. Any thoughts, recommendations, warnings, advice?

300 AMP MILLER SYNCROWAVE 300S WELDER
AC/DC Gas Tungsten Arc or Shielded Metal Arc Welding Power Source

PRIMARY:
Volts: 200 (208)/230/460
Amperes: 106/96/48
Single Phase: 60 Hz.
KW: 14.4
KVA (BAL. AC & DC): 22

SECONDARY:
Volts: 32
Amperes: 300
Duty Cycle: 60%
Maximum OCV: 80
Welding Range AC & DC: 5 to 375

EQUIPPED WITH:
Ground Cable
Tungsten Arc Welding Gun
Coolant System with Hoses
Weld Current Control
Background Current Control
Pulse Per Second Control
Percent On Time
Pulser On/Off
High Frequency Control
Crater Fill
Start Current
AC Balance
Post-Flow Time
Spot Time
AC/DC Switch
Polarity Straight or Reverse
Range Hi/Low
Overall Size: 32" L-R x 24" F-B x 64" H
 
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#3 ·
That would rock!

Just confirm the machine you are buying is SINGLE PHASE. I see lots of good deals on three phase machines, but on older stuff you really need a three phase power.

Tom :usa:
 
#4 ·
Ok, got a little further in the owner's manual and there might be a problem. Even though the owner's manual confirms these numbers from above:

PRIMARY:
Volts: 200 (208)/230/460
Amperes: 106/96/48
Single Phase: 60 Hz.

The instructions for installation including input and such calls for a 225amp circuit breaker for the system? Granted, the chances of me running this thing full-tilt boogie are non-existant but I'm a bit confused to see the circuit breaker required to be about twice the input load listed...

I know that this won't have all the bells and whistles of a new machine, but it will likely be fairly similar to what I've used during my certification classes. The price is right if it will work for me.
 
#6 ·
PAToyota said:
Ok, got a little further in the owner's manual and there might be a problem. Even though the owner's manual confirms these numbers from above:

PRIMARY:
Volts: 200 (208)/230/460
Amperes: 106/96/48
Single Phase: 60 Hz.

The instructions for installation including input and such calls for a 225amp circuit breaker for the system? Granted, the chances of me running this thing full-tilt boogie are non-existant but I'm a bit confused to see the circuit breaker required to be about twice the input load listed...


We have had this conversation before in another thread but think FUSE and inrush currents.

If you look closely at the manual it will reference a fuse for circuit protection, not a circuit breaker. It will likely will be a UL class H fuse they are referencing.

Miller tech support "might" reccomend a circuit breaker size for you if you call.
 
#7 ·
Ok, thanks Jason. I think I finally understand this. With the greater capacity, the difference is more obvious.

My Millermatic 250X lists an input voltage of 44amps. It calls for a circuit breaker or time delay fuse of 50amps. It calls for a normal operating fuse of 70amps.

The Syncrowave 300S lists an input voltage of 120amps for balanced AC service and calls for a 225amp fuse (fuse type is not listed).

I'm going to contact Miller and see if the fuse listed is normal operating or time delay and if they have a recommendation for a time delay fuse if that is a normal operating fuse.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Is the unit under power? For $1K, I would want to see it demo'd! :) I'm pretty sure the 300 was the last of the "non-electronic" tig machines. Simple, reliable. Newer ones have nicer features, but these old ones are built stout and only "maintance" is learning how to clean & adjust the High Frequency unit. Do check it has "HIGH FREQUENCY" switch.. really old machines relied on scratch starting (drop a copper plate down on the work to start the arc... pita for keeping tungsten clean).

Looks like some shops pulled these units, to go with more modern electronic units to save on power. Not a big issue for home or part time use.

My old Hobart has a "three setting" power switch. On the highest setting it brings in a capacitor bank to help ballance the current and voltage (less likely to pop the breaker that way). Not sure if that was optional or not, but nice feature

Even with a water cooled torch, it is still rated at 250Amps @ 60% duty cycle. Hell, I am warn out if I even tried to run it at 40%... (weld 4 minutes, rest 6 minutes). No need for a fancy water cooler, just a 5 gallon bucket
of water :)

Tom :usa:
 
#9 ·
Actually got a response from Miller. The 225amp is a time delay fuse. At issue is the fact that input is 205amp for an "unbalanced" AC setting. A "balanced" AC setting is only 120amp.

It does have the high frequency start. It also has two power ranges. Low is 5 to 75amp and high is 15 to 375.

Ok, I understand the balance issue of the waveform towards "cleaning" or towards "penetration" or "balanced" between the two. I know that I'm never going to be using the full potential of this machine, but am not sure if it would be realistic to think that I could keep things balanced and run it on less of a breaker.

I'm thinking I should keep looking for a used 250DX. I designed my electrical supply to accommodate that.
 
#10 ·
I have a syncrowave 300 that I think is a 1985 model. The amperage numbers are the same as the ones you listed. I ran it on a 60 amp breaker that fed a garage addition at my old house and it would pop every once in a while if anything else, including lights were on. It would only trip the breaker when I turned the machine on. I never had a problem once the machine was on. I also, have never had a need to weld at more than 200 amps. I expect that it would pop the breaker if welding with the machine at its highest setting, but there is not anything I can think of that you would need all 300 amps. It is a great welder- especially for $1k. I moved and now have a new separate shop. I am going to run it on a 90 amp breaker this time, but am still in the process of wiring so I don't know if it will pop the breaker.
 
#12 ·
Ok, today the classified ads has a Syncrowave 180 available for $1200. Differences from a 250 are no options for pulsed output or sequence control, no "lift arc," and no 115VAC Aux Power. Output range is 10-180 for the 180 and 5-310 for the 250.

I think I'd prefer to have the pulse options and "lift arc" at the very least. Seeing machines to either side maybe this means I'll stumble across a 250 next...
 
#13 ·
I had an econotig, which is nowhere near the machine the 300 is and I had it on a 30 amp breaker, which it promptly tripped if I pressed the foot switch to far. If you are not going to run the required breaker, you will probably have a similar problem. Miller explained to me that the early econotig ran the full range on the pedal regardless of the setting on the range switch, so when i would start it, it tripped the breaker, the newer machines were actually variable with the foot switch, anyway I ended up getting a Lincoln 175 Squarewave, which is awesome, I even welded aluminum with about 1hour of practice. Normally I would advise to buy the upgraded machine, but in this case, unless you do it for a living I would buy what you need or will use in the near future, unless of course you are just buying to resell and make a little $ which in this price range is possible.
 
#14 ·
PAToyota said:
Ok, today the classified ads has a Syncrowave 180 available for $1200. Differences from a 250 are no options for pulsed output or sequence control, no "lift arc," and no 115VAC Aux Power. Output range is 10-180 for the 180 and 5-310 for the 250.

I think I'd prefer to have the pulse options and "lift arc" at the very least. Seeing machines to either side maybe this means I'll stumble across a 250 next...
I would not touch a Sync 180 for that price when for ~$1700 you can get a NEW T-Arc Pro-Wave 185TSW that comes with: 12.5’ Air-Cooled TIG Torch with Accessory Kit, Work Clamp with 10’ Cable, Stick Electrode Holder with 13’ Cable, Argon Regulator, Gas Hose and Remote Foot Control.

As it is a switch mode power supply you get all of the fun stuff like lift and HF GTAW starting, AC Freq. range of 15-150Hz, a pulser and extended AC balance controls. As well due to its design and freq. control it will outperform conventional machines on Al because you can "tighten up" the arc and use tungsten shapes other than balled.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the replies everyone. Think I'm going to keep looking and see what turns up. Waited quite awhile until I stumbled into my MM250X and Hypertherm 1100. I can wait on the TIG as well.
 
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