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Whats a good TIG welder to start with

2K views 24 replies 10 participants last post by  bob large 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm looking for a tig welder for the smaller jobs like sheet metel, exhaust tubing just general fabracation, maybe roll cadge tubing down the road. now and then some stanless and aluminum

So what welder do you recomend
 
#2 ·
low bux

i have a weldmark 135 plus, a good low bux tool.
as a noobe welder it has done me good, you can do thicker metel with many passes, but so far it has been good with thinner than 1/4 in steel.

not as pricey as the biger names, and has lasted me a couple of years now, (not used each mo), i do some fabing on my jeep, but still leave the heavy duty stuff to someone with a heavy duty machine.

to those in the know flame away, i still like my tool:flipoff2:
 
#4 ·
Entry level tigs that will weld aluminum and are worth a **** are not going to have a entry level price.
You can get a decent DC only tig for not a ungodly amount of coin, but that extra polarity of the ac/dc rigs are going to cost you.

Yes welding aluminum with DC can be done...sort've:barf:

What Brands/manufacturers do you have up there ?

Down here; Miller & Lincoln are readily available and Esab machines can be found as well. Thermal Arc, has a machine called the t/a 185 and is a popular ac/dc inverter machine.

Lincoln PT275 was an easy choice well suited to my current and future needs.

Swinging to the other side of the technology spectrum there are Miller Dynasty series inverters that have an extensive following .

The Thermal arc machine (t/a 185) mentioned earlier is often choosen over the Miller dynasty 200, I believe mostly based on price, but it is another one that has a big following.
 
#6 · (Edited)
just a thought

ok I can do without aluminum

but do you think one of thies cheap POS tig welders could be riged up to a foot controll.

If that dile could be adjusted when the machene is under load then it wondent be to hard to buypass that POT and use a foot controll insted of the knob

 
#7 ·
Shoot I dont know the electronics of adding the foot pedal control to it. I would think the time spent trying to jerry rig it, would be better spent just practicing like crazy. Remote control is a really good feature for tigs, but you can, with practice control the heat 'manually' . The puddle will cool everytime you add filler and how much filler you add. Moving slower will cause the heat to build up too.

How much does that machine go for ?
 
#10 ·
Guys at Airgas (who rep esab, miller etc.....) all tell me Thermal Arc 185 is the way to go.... killer unit in general and the price/performance ratio is the best.......

besides one guy was telling me they have the lowest defect returns..... I like reliable things.... especially when it's my money being spent :)
 
#11 ·
I use the Thermal Arc 160S around work, scratch start and foot pedal control iffen one is so inclined for around $850 (w/o torch and pedal). Just be aware that they are squirrely as if one plugs them into a 120VAC circuit they limit the output to 80a...

D.
 
#12 ·
I tested the ThermalArc unit when I was looking for a TIG machine. Great inverter. It doesn't need a lot of power and it has a ton of features.

I was just ready to pull the trigger and get the ThermalAcr, when I happened to stubble on a 250 Syncrowave for cheap money.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I use the Thermal Arc 160S around work, scratch start and

Stupid question I’m sure; but how do you "scratch start" TIG?

I always used a foot pedal. And i was told by my instructor that it was a big no no to end a weld by pulling the tip/arc away without turning the juice off.:confused:
 
#14 ·
You don't ever scratch start a TIG. The tip should never come in contact with the work. If it does, you get to regrind the tungsten tip.

I have a Lincoln Tigmate 175 and it works pretty well and sells for about $1800. But in retrospect, I wish that I had gone ahead and spent the extra money on one the synchoweld units. They draw less current from the wall socket for the same amps output, and they generally weigh less (but cost more too).

If you really want to do aluminum, you should look into a welder that has a variable duty cycle output. This helps a bunch and makes the tungsten last longer. They are extra $$$, but you'll save money in the long run by not having to upgrade your welder in a couple of years down the road.

Stay with name brand stuff. Easier to get supplies and parts for them.
 
#18 · (Edited)
InternetRoadkill said:
You don't ever scratch start a TIG. The tip should never come in contact with the work. If it does, you get to regrind the tungsten tip.

I have a Lincoln Tigmate 175 and it works pretty well and sells for about $1800. But in retrospect, I wish that I had gone ahead and spent the extra money on one the synchoweld units. They draw less current from the wall socket for the same amps output, and they generally weigh less (but cost more too).

If you really want to do aluminum, you should look into a welder that has a variable duty cycle output. This helps a bunch and makes the tungsten last longer. They are extra $$$, but you'll save money in the long run by not having to upgrade your welder in a couple of years down the road.

Stay with name brand stuff. Easier to get supplies and parts for them.
Wow,
This post is "internet roadkill". Some tigs are scratch start and in certain cases scratch start is acceptable. Without hf, lift arc, etc. scratch start is the only way to start a tig weld such as when you convert a basic arc welder into a tig power source. A copper strip or something of the sort can be used as a starting plate to help with tungsten sticking and contamination. So, yes sometimes you do scratch start a tig.

Having said that, scratch start sucks ass and should be avoided at ALL costs. It is the sorry way to tig weld.

What's a synchoweld? I hope that's not a butcher job of "syncrowave".

Oh, and what's "variable duty cycle output"? You're just gonna confuse this guy with your made up terms. If you're talking duty cycle, well that's not "variable" by any stretch of the imagination. If you are talking about AC waveshaping abilities then say so in the correct terms to keep from confusing people trying to learn.
 
#19 ·
bob large said:
Well maybe I should rephrase.

How do you TIG weld without a foot control?

Just like you stick weld. Set an amperage on the machine, start the arc, and weld. You use the same amperage from start to finish, but that's what it's like without remote amperage control capabilites. It works and can be ok on a construction site. It sucks for making nice parts.
 
#20 · (Edited)
InternetRoadkill said:
Oops, forget to add that the reason you leave the tip next to the work after stopping the arc is to let the shield gas from the torch continue to blow over the hot metal surface thus protecting the weld from oxidation. Most quality TIG units will blow gas for several seconds after the arc stops.

Sorry to pick on you. Pet peeve time. It's a tig welder and there is no "tip". It's a "tungsten electrode", "electrode", or "tungsten". Mig welders have "tips". Also, quality tig units will have adjustable post flow (aka "blowing gas after the weld"). Some lesser units have postflow that isn't adjustable. Shitty units have no post flow. If you have a torch with a built in valve you have control over post flow depending on when you turn the valve off.

So to everyone, yes, always utilize post flow to fully shield the end of the weld AND the electrode. Hold still when you're done. Don't do like those jackasses on American Chopper and all that other shit on tv and yank the torch away the second you kill the arc. (Pet peeve of the night #2) If your tungsten turns any kind of blue or purple it's been contaminated because you moved too soon or your post flow wasn't long enough.
 
#21 ·
Adding to Biggervalves replys;
1)bottle of Argon w/ regulator or flowmeter.
2) tig torch with gas valve built into torch
3) hook the power lead from tig torch to - stud
4) hook machine ground lead to + stud

Oh and you need a arc welder too.

Nethink thats most of parts needed and without a means of current control at the machine through something like a foot pedal, you will have to play with what I was talking about in a earlier reply.
 
#22 ·
yes, I butchered the synchrowave into synchroweld. It's what you get when trying to type something really fast while the boss isn't looking.

I've never seen a scratch start TIG. I was taught to never touch the tip. Period. BTW, the electrode may be made of tungsten, but it still has a ground tip. It's that pointy thing on the end. Just like a pencil has a tip.

The variable duty cycle I mentioned refers to the ability to change the ratio of positive electrode vs negative electrode when using AC to TIG aluminum. A basic TIG welder with an AC setting uses a 50/50 ratio. On more advanced units you can change it so that the electrode is negative longer or shorter than 50/50. Having the electrode negative most of the time allows it to run cooler. My unit doesn't have that feature, but I think it's refered to as the 'cleaning setting' since you need a positive electrode at least part of the time to remove any oxides from the aluminum surface.
 
#23 ·
InternetRoadkill said:
yes, I butchered the synchrowave into synchroweld. It's what you get when trying to type something really fast while the boss isn't looking.

I've never seen a scratch start TIG. I was taught to never touch the tip. Period. BTW, the electrode may be made of tungsten, but it still has a ground tip. It's that pointy thing on the end. Just like a pencil has a tip.

The variable duty cycle I mentioned refers to the ability to change the ratio of positive electrode vs negative electrode when using AC to TIG aluminum. A basic TIG welder with an AC setting uses a 50/50 ratio. On more advanced units you can change it so that the electrode is negative longer or shorter than 50/50. Having the electrode negative most of the time allows it to run cooler. My unit doesn't have that feature, but I think it's refered to as the 'cleaning setting' since you need a positive electrode at least part of the time to remove any oxides from the aluminum surface.
Cool, now we're getting somewhere. The syncrowave is a transformer based machine and normally draws lots of input current and is large and heavy size wise. It's the inverters you're thinking about that tend to draw less amps and weigh little compared to their transformer based counterparts.

I agree what you're saying about the tip, but with it actually meaning a welding part of a mig welder I prefer to hear it called something along the lines of an electrode. Sure it has a place that can be termed a tip, but it seems as a carryover from mig terminology. We can agree to disagree, that's fine.

What you're talking about with electrode positive vs. electrode negative in the AC wave cycle is termed balance control. Most machines built to weld aluminum that have a set balance tend to be in the neighborhood of 60% EN and 40% EP not 50/50. Traditional machines like an AC buzzbox I think would be 50/50 in terms of their balance. Next, we can get into the AC shapes such as sine wave, squarewave, and advanced squarewave. Cheapy machines tend to be sine wave machines while syncrowaves are squarewave and inverter based power sources tend to be advanced squarewave. EN portion of the cycle concentrates heat into the base metal which increases penetration and fusion and puts less heat into the electrode. The EP portion of the cycle concentrates heat in the electrode which is counterproductive but necessary because it's how the cleaning action happens. This comes from the positively charged gas ions striking the negatively charged workpiece with enough force to break up the surface oxides. It's theoretically best to use the minimum EP percentage necessary to effectively clean the surface. This allows a smaller etched zone, maximum heat into the workpiece, and better tungsten life with less spitting. I've been over this a few times in other threads in this forum. What you can do will be based on the abilities and adjustments within your machine. I could lay some nice beads with my old sine wave non-adjustable Econotig, but it's much nicer to have a machine with high frequency and adjustable balance.
 
#24 ·
oh, and the proper way to scratch start, used for many years before hf machines, was/is to place a piece of copper on the work to start the arc by scratching or lifting if its a lift start.

As for contamination of the tungsten or electrode, it is ONLY contaminated when above a certain temperature. i.e. a properly started non-hf start won't do much harm.

everyone's welding talk here is like a story I have.

"a us government agency once put out a project to bid during the 60's for the space program. Nasa needed a pen that would write in any position, even 0g and no atmosphere. Several companies spent millions of dollars researching, developing, and testing prototypes over an extended period of around 18months to 2 years. In the end, a contract was awarded, and you probably know this pen as the "morph" pen.

The Russians we faced with this same problem of needing a writing utensil that could stand up to the rigors of space travel and function in the same harsh environments. - they used a pencil."

Moral-
It's not about the bike - lance armstrong
run what ya brung - anonymous
here, hold my beer 'n watch this - my kinfolk
 
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