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Old 08-29-2006, 10:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Bronze Bushing Lubrication

Ok, I know bronze bushings, especially the ones with graphite in them are supposed to be self lubricating, but apparantly they arnt at very high speeds.

The application is the kart clutch (again). This bushing usually wont see speeds over 10,000 rpm, but it sees maybe 175*-200*.

Right now, I use white lithium grease during assembly, and after a run on the track I spray some tri-flow in there. I cant pull it apart after every run to grease it, so I need an aero-sol spray.

I was wondering if you guys could maybe help me out. I dont quite think Tri-flow is intended to handle the high speeds/temps like this. I mean, I dont have a problems with the bushings failing (at least not quite like the bearings) but When I pull the clutch I will see bronze sludge if you will that is sort of caked on the shaft. When I clean it off and reinstall the clutch the drum has alot of play because the bushings have worn more than they should.

Im looking for a way to keep this from happening. I mean, some guys lube them with wd40, but im looking to extend the life of the bearing. I dont think I need anything quite like krytox grease or other extremely high end greases, the white lithium grease (you know the stuff... in the yellow tub... everybody's got it!) seems to be ok, but Im looking for an aerosol lube that will stand up to the high speeds better than tri-flow will. I just dont think it was intended to. Im placing an MSC order tommorow so If you guys can recommend a product that would be good. I know bronze bushings really should be oiled (correct?) but I need an aerosol spray that I can use a little straw with due to the location.


Im looking at the super-lube line actually. I have a little tube of grease they make for fishing reels and its good stuff, but fishing reels dont really see too extreme of an environment lol

Thoughts? would I be better off just getting a decet grease and not worrying about having to relube it? What do you think? Its a pain to have to keep pressing in new bushings, they are simply wearing out too fast. Should I consider a dry-graphite lube? The bronze bushings have little pockets with graphite in them already.

What do you guys think?

Jim
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First thing I would be looking at is the condition of the shaft running through it and make sure it's polished with ZERO defects. While the graphite bronze bushings tend to have a higher heat rating, if you feel it won't see much over 220 degrees I'd try and oilite bushing. Basically a bronze bushing that's oil impregnated with 30w. I've had better luck with them then the dry lube in higher speed application and down the road when you do lube them, they seem to soak up the oil.

For a spray between runs I'd just use some good oil with high heat qualities and creep in a small dispenser with a needle on it.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Motorcycle chain lube??? There are many different types?
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 1996cc
Motorcycle chain lube??? There are many different types?
How about anti seize? My mechanic uses them on the input shaft of the manual transmisson where it goes into the pilot bushing on the flywheel.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I run a Rotax kart here in CO. Mostly to keep in shape for road racing.

I assume the bushing you are refering to is the bushing for the clutch located on the mainshaft.

I use lithium during assembly, but the kart gets washed down after track time so I have been using the motorcyle chain lubricant - as suggested above.

Name escapes me at the moment, silver can with a red lid. Similar to Wurth products but definitely not Wurth. I prefer the offroad version rather than the road bike version, it seems to stick to the chain better.

The bronze bushing is a wear item and we replace it every season - usually about 75 hrs to 100 hrs during a year. I'll try to remember at the brand of lubricant tonight.
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Old 08-30-2006, 08:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeJ
I run a Rotax kart here in CO. Mostly to keep in shape for road racing.

I assume the bushing you are refering to is the bushing for the clutch located on the mainshaft.

I use lithium during assembly, but the kart gets washed down after track time so I have been using the motorcyle chain lubricant - as suggested above.

Name escapes me at the moment, silver can with a red lid. Similar to Wurth products but definitely not Wurth. I prefer the offroad version rather than the road bike version, it seems to stick to the chain better.

The bronze bushing is a wear item and we replace it every season - usually about 75 hrs to 100 hrs during a year. I'll try to remember at the brand of lubricant tonight.

WHHAAAAATTTT??????? I need to replace this thing Every other raceday!?!?!

BTW, ever use Bel-Ray chain lube? That shit is awesome. How does it compare to what your mentioning. Does chain lube really work that well???

Thanks guys

Jim
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Old 08-31-2006, 06:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What kind of RPMs are you running at? I have a special oil impregnated bronze bushing that I run as a pilot bushing and have no problems with it at around 4K rpm.
You might have ruined the bushing by lubing it with the lithium grease, since you aren't supposed to put anything on them, lube wise.
Might consider finding away to get rid of the bushing and go with a bearing,
or try Slick50 or duralube.
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Old 08-31-2006, 09:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger
What kind of RPMs are you running at? I have a special oil impregnated bronze bushing that I run as a pilot bushing and have no problems with it at around 4K rpm.
You might have ruined the bushing by lubing it with the lithium grease, since you aren't supposed to put anything on them, lube wise.
Might consider finding away to get rid of the bushing and go with a bearing,
or try Slick50 or duralube.
Im turning as much as 10,000 rpm, but it can vary. Sometimes itsonly around 5-6.


The OEM originally had a needle bearing in it, but they had to use one that was 5/16 wide and it meant there was ALOT of play in the thing. They would only last us about an hour of running before they would take a shit. Pretty nasty stuff when they went because they like to chew up the shaft they rode on.

As for Slick50 and Duralube, can you tell me more about them? What kind of oil/grease are they? What do you usually use on your bushings?
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartracer55
WHHAAAAATTTT??????? I need to replace this thing Every other raceday!?!?!

BTW, ever use Bel-Ray chain lube? That shit is awesome. How does it compare to what your mentioning. Does chain lube really work that well???

Thanks guys

Jim
Nope not every race day. I replace mine every season (usually about 75 hrs of motor time). If we are talking the same piece of course.

The brand of lube I was talking about is Motul. Try your local bike/offroad shop. Our local track sells the stuff.

Are you running the bronze bushing because you are running such a small front gear? On the Rotax we use the bushing when we run 11 teeth on the front, but when we run 12 or more on the front we can run the needle bearing piece instead.

Rotax runs 14 thousand rev's max, usually 8K - 12K.

I lube the cahin after every track session, without fail.

HTH
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yup, the clutch drum bushing

Ive got a horstman HDC 5B... The 10 and 12 tooth drives use needle bearings from the factory but are VERY prone to failure. They are much too narrow to support the drum so they have a tendancy to fail. Just about everybody running the 10 tooth drums buys them from Andrews Machine... they make an aftermarket drum that is lighter and uses a bushing. The 11 tooth drivers have bushings in them from the factory.

There is no way these bushings will last 75 hours. Maybe 2-3 TOPS but usually they develop too much wear long before that.

Thanks everybody. I have gotten some great suggestions online and I have half a season to try them out and see which works the best for me

Thanks!!

Jim
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