CK Systematics Mig Welder

[Beat95YJ]

So I recently acquired a mig welder which was tossed to the side by the company due to issues finding consumables. It was made by a company called CK Systematics which has since broken up. CK makes tig only equipment and I have no idea what Systematics does. Some time ago they built private label welders for Snap On.

FYI the welder works fine, I have been using it since 1997 when I was at Ricor. It just needs new tips and insulator bushings. (B&C in the photo) I was able to locate the tips in the following two places:

http://www.brweldingsupplies.com/par...product_id=343

http://www.htpweld.com/products/mig_...ystematic.html

I am also going to ask the Snap On guy if he has the ability to get any of these parts.

The local welding supply rep wants me to convert to a Tweco #1 style end. I have the parts and it looks fairly easy but it does require cutting the steel inner liner of the mig gun back (is this a good idea?) Otherwise the diffuser does not screw down flush.

What is the opinion of the pbb on this one? Should i cut up and modify the existing gun, or just order the parts ahead of time? How important is it to be able to run to the welding supply and pick up parts quickly? I am not a "fabricator" by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a workshop and I have a welder now, so I want to setup things as well as possible.

btw, thanks to TRD for loaning me the Helmet and Bottle to test the welder and learn that my personal welding skills are lacking.

[FF3PM]

Who makes the gun that is on there now? I assume Systematics. IMO Tweco is not the best gun out there but it takes a LOT of welding to figure out what is the best gun for you. I know HTP is real good for customer service, I have owned one of the first HTP 180 migs for about 20 years and never had any problems. I can't speak for the other welding supply you posted. My HTP has a real cheapo Tweco that I have been wanting to replace since day one but I don't use it a lot to justify the cost. So if you are going to do limited fab work maybe just buy the kit and keep the gun as is.

[Beat95YJ]

This is my at home, I want to learn to weld better setup. The welder currently has a Systematics model 15 gun. I don't know enough about welding to know if the gun is good or bad.

I look at it like this. I am fine at bending, decent at notching and fitting tube, but I currently refuse to do my own welding (on vehicle...I will weld a table together or tack weld like nobody's buisness) I don't expect to be the best, I just want to get better.

Thanks for the input.

[40_Below]

Maybe give Bernard a call, they might have a gun that would work for it. Your LWS should stock consumables for it.

http://www.bernardwelds.com/

[FF3PM]

Try these guys if you don't mind buying on line. I did see CK Systematic guns there.
http://www.arc-zone.com/catalog/web_...d=9709794_2425
I've also been told Snap-On sells Systematics and the prices are not bad compared to LWS.

[Beat95YJ]

Thank you guys. I think I am going to order the parts for the current gun and run it.

[Static-XJ]

Trimming the liner is not a big deal, they always come long and have to be trimmed anyways. Personally, I'd convert to a tweco end, you can get the consumables almost anywhere.

[Beat95YJ]

Well, It works, however I may be the worst welder in the history of the PBB. I guess that's why I got it though, for practice. Started on a welding table today.

Anybody know of any good reference books on welding?

These were the best I could do. (there were many worse)

[jptbay]

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ

Anybody know of any good reference books on welding?

This is a great place to start. Free online tutorial. Esab university.
http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig1_1.htm

John

[Beat95YJ]

I ended up getting all of the torch parts thru the Snap On guy. Cost me around $20 for 10 ea tip and 3 ea diffuser and o-ring part, etc.

[Beat95YJ]

So I have been using the welder more and more lately, and it is pissing me off. Every 15 minutes or so the wire jams up in the wire feed and I have to cut the wire, pull it backwards through the gun and rerun it.

Any ideas why this would happen? It is easy to push wire through the liner by hand. It seems that if the wire is less than perfectly straight entering the feed, all hell breaks loose. I'll put up some pics tonight as it is currently jammed.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ

So I have been using the welder more and more lately, and it is pissing me off. Every 15 minutes or so the wire jams up in the wire feed and I have to cut the wire, pull it backwards through the gun and rerun it.

Any ideas why this would happen? It is easy to push wire through the liner by hand. It seems that if the wire is less than perfectly straight entering the feed, all hell breaks loose. I'll put up some pics tonight as it is currently jammed.

The drive roll mechanism might just be a POS. Did you check drive roll tension and is the liner in good shape? Are you using a precision would 8" wire roll or a small 4" roll?

[Static-XJ]

Sounds to me like too much drive roll tension. The rollers should slip, not force the wire through when it's bound up.

May have a kink in the liner or a worn out tip that's stopping the wire in the first place. And the drive rolls keep feeding wire, that has no place to go, and you end up with a birds nest.

[Beat95YJ]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

The drive roll mechanism might just be a POS. Did you check drive roll tension and is the liner in good shape? Are you using a precision would 8" wire roll or a small 4" roll?

It is a small roll that I bought to see if the welder worked worth a damn. I will reduce the drive tension to see what happens. The liner seems pretty good.

Originally Posted by Static-XJ

Sounds to me like too much drive roll tension. The rollers should slip, not force the wire through when it's bound up.

May have a kink in the liner or a worn out tip that's stopping the wire in the first place. And the drive rolls keep feeding wire, that has no place to go, and you end up with a birds nest.

I will reduce the tension and see what happens. Is there any kind of rule of thumb for how much tension is needed?

I recently added tension as the wire wasn't coming smoothly off the roll and the wire was starting and stopping a lot.

I will also check the tip.

[Static-XJ]

I think most manufacturers say to put the gun up agains a nonconductive surface and feed wire, back tension off until the wire stops feeding (drive rolls slip). I usually just drag my hand on the spool, but this is on standalone feeders with exposed spools.

[Beat95YJ]

Originally Posted by Static-XJ

I think most manufacturers say to put the gun up agains a nonconductive surface and feed wire, back tension off until the wire stops feeding (drive rolls slip). I usually just drag my hand on the spool, but this is on standalone feeders with exposed spools.

Hmmm. Mine is a stand alone wire feed.

[BumpyDodge]

Have you tried talking to CK directly?
I have a bunch of stuff from them and they've always been helpful.
http://www.ckworldwide.com/

[Beat95YJ]

Originally Posted by BumpyDodge

Have you tried talking to CK directly?
I have a bunch of stuff from them and they've always been helpful.
http://www.ckworldwide.com/

Interesting. When I researched them in the past it sounded as though they were folded into another company, dropped the mig product line and then stopped supporting this stuff.

Thanks for the link. That is very helpful.

[Wyoming9]

How is the drag set on the wire hub??

Some people call it the brake, if it is to loose the spool doesn`t stop when the trigger is released. To tight and you keep cranking down on the wire feed tension.

The drive rolls could be worn out, they are consumables as well as liners.

[Beat95YJ]

I reset the drag, and it stopped jamming. I welded with it for most of the day Saturday and Sunday, and still had some issues.

I did rebuild the torch tip as it was a touch tattered.

Here are some pics of the welder and a shot of my welds.

[Beat95YJ]

After all that tonight Fred helped me figure out all my welding issues. I put out some of the best welds in a while tonight.

This is how Fred set the machine:



The quality of my welds has increased 100 fold. I will get a better weld test tomorrow night when I do some shop welding projects.

A lot of the gain is likely due to the chart that tells me how to set the welder.

[Beat95YJ]

Some welds I have made with the Hobart.







I did forget to turn the bottle on after a break. The weld on the right was the result of grinding it out are redoing it.

[clarkinrd]

Hey guys,
funny when i read this, i used to work for Systematics, they build their own line of welders but mainly build for SnapOn Tools. Build around 5-8K welders a year plus they also build pipe thawing machines.

Nice, heavy duty mig welders. They also build spool guns and some tig units.

They are located in West Chester, PA (philadelphia suburbs)

I am sure they are in the yellow pages, they have a large parts inventory and make all their own torches etc.

Jerry

[44Runner]

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ

A lot of the gain is likely due to the chart that tells me how to set the welder.

Honestly this is one of the hardest parts of MIG welding. I still use the chart on my Miller. I never use those setting exactly but it always gives me a good starting point to fine tune to my liking. Really though it is simply a crutch. I TIG and stick without the use of any chart so it can be done, its just nice to have when you are lazy. You will get the hang of it. I would say your welds are coming along nicely. Congrats on scoring the new welder...