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About to drop money on a welder

2K views 30 replies 19 participants last post by  jmcbroom 
#1 ·
I want to make sure I'm not going to regret the decision in a year or two.

I'm looking at the Miller Thunderbolt XL 225/150 AC/DC stick welder. Cheapest I've found brand new is $430, can't find any used locally.

My first project is creating some "uprights" for my little 4x6 trailer so I can haul my kayaks. Second project will probably be some sliders and skids. Eventually I want to replace the factory TJ cage and do an axle swap.

Basically I'm wanting to do fab work, not including sheet metal. I'd like to get a Mig machine, but I can't find one that will weld what I need without spending twice as much, so the plan is to buy a smaller Mig machine later, after I get a Plasma.

I've got $600, that should cover the welder and a good helmet.

Is this the right choice?
 
#2 ·
That's not a bad price, but I think it's going to blow my budget.

I'd still need a helmet AND a bottle.

Other than sheetmetal and purdier welds, what's the benefit of Mig over a good DC stick machine? I've been searching for days for that information, and the only thing, that I've found, that Mig would be better at is thing stuff.
 
#5 ·
Other than sheetmetal and purdier welds, what's the benefit of Mig over a good DC stick machine? I've been searching for days for that information, and the only thing, that I've found, that Mig would be better at is thing stuff.
IMO, convenience and ease of use.

I find it convenient not to have to bust thick crusted slag and use a lot of elbow grease brushing the weld. Even with .035 fluxcored, the slag and effort to clean is no where near what it is for an arcbox. Also, everything is "in house" within a Mig.

I like the ease of striking an arc with a Mig, but I learned early on that "ease" can become a detriment i.e. compensate for the initial cold weld. Again, IMO, out of position welding is easier with a Mig. I have trouble striking an arc with a nub rod and completing a great weld within a confined area...user error. :D

However, an AC/DC box is very versatile and that's what a lot of the accomplished welders I know first used. There's nothing to say that such a welder can't make purdy welds....even on sheetmetal....it's just going to take practice....practice....practice.

Seeing as your budget is tight, I would still say get a Mig first. Then, scour the countryside, high and low, for a used/great condition Lincoln 225AC.
 
#3 ·
You can get a $60 Harbor Freight auto darkening helmet and run flux core wire in a wire feed welder until you can afford better stuff. Seriously, I would either wait until you can afford a better welder or buy the HH187 and run flux core in it for now. You'll be much happier in the long run.

FWIW, I've been VERY happy with my HH210 so far.
 
#4 ·
lots of guys still use a stick...but you will thank yourself if you save up till you can get a mig. If you can put whatever your'e welding on a table or the floor so you can roll it around and keep it flat then the stick will be ok but if you plan to do any "on the vehicle" welding (vertical, upside down, otherwise out of position) then the stick will be a whole lot more difficult if not impossible, though the DC will make it easier.

That being said I used one for about 4 years before I could afford a mig.
 
#7 ·
If you can put whatever your'e welding on a table or the floor so you can roll it around and keep it flat then the stick will be ok but if you plan to do any "on the vehicle" welding (vertical, upside down, otherwise out of position) then the stick will be a whole lot more difficult if not impossible
If you're only using say a 7024 rod, sure out of position work is going to be out of the question. There are plenty of electrodes (including 6010, 6011, 6013, 7014, 7018) that are all position. If you know what you're doing they'll weld just fine uphill or overhead.

You can even bend the electrode to gain acces to much tighter areas than you can fit a mig gun into.
 
#6 ·
I say go with the stick welder. You're getting more machine for your dollar. A properly made stick weld and a properly made mig weld will both be stronger than your run of the mill mild steel.

You could try looking for a used one, but these generally hold their value very well, so you're not likely to save much.
 
#8 ·
I guess it all depends on what you plan to do and how thick the material will be. Yes you can build almost any thiing with mig stick or tig but each has its strengths and weaknesses. I started out with a 110mig, got the same machine you are looking at, bought a 220v mig when the little one died and just got a Tig. I'll ignore the tig and give you some overview. These are general ideas and I know if you are a good welder they don't quite apply as well.

Questions you should ask yourself

1) welding skill... Are you good at one or the other? Mig is generally easier to learn esp.out of possition.

2) metel thickness... Mig is generally better for steel 3/16" or less. Stick 1/8 or thicker.

3)cleanup. Mig with gas best, mig w FC messier, Stick dirtiest ( however 6013, 7024,7018 run rite will just fall off with almost no clean up similar to mig w/ gas)

4) metal prep. Just about the rev. of above. Stick 6010/6011 will burn thru some ugly crud. FCmig lite rust, gas mig little to no rust/scale. 7018 stick same as gas mig.

5) where will you weld? Gas mig dislikes wind so unless its calm you'll weld inside. FCmig more sparks smoke so kind of 50/50 inside / outside. Stick fair amount of smoke, lots of sparks so inside kind of iffy if space is limited. Outside it won't mater how much the wind blows.

I'd probably agree that for what you say you want to build mig with gas is probably best. Thiner metal, ease of learning, ease of out of pos welds. That said I'd take that stick machine over a cheep import mig hands down. It will do what you want, it just might not look as pretty and you'll need more practice. I really like my AC/DC thunderbolt and if my Tig didn't also do AC/DC stick I'd keep it. $430 looks like a steal for the machine. The best I saw was $630 new the other day when I was looking at what to ask for my Thunderbolt. That is actually close to what I was considering selling my used machine for.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the info. The $430 is from a guy on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Miller-Thunderb...ZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem), but if that one is not available, and I still want stick, I'll give send you a PM, you've already got a buyer.


I've never welded. Well, I tried once with Mig, about 4 hours total. However, a guy who is good friends of my wife's family is a welding instructor/industrial welder and is supposed to be pretty darned good. He told me to get a Buzzbox and bring it over and he'll get me welding.

I just found a MM210 on CL for $500, I did make a call and it was not available, otherwise I would be going tomorrow to pick it up.



Thanks for all the help guys. I'm in no better position that I was three days ago. I'd like Mig, but a decent machine is quiet a bit more than a good AC/DC stick machine.
 
#9 · (Edited)
where are you located?

i'll sell you my old lincoln stick welder. its a 230V. its about 25 years old and its only been used twice. my grandpa built his shop with it and never used it again.

i'll sell it for $200 plus shipping. i'm in wyoming.

i bought a miller DVI2. i don't have any use for the stick welder. i haven't ever used it.
 
#14 ·
HillBilly's got good advice.

I paid $100 for my first welder after learning to O/A weld in high school. It was the same old crappy Lincoln 225AC buzzbox posted. I learned quite a bit just by burning up 1/8" 6011 on dirty junk out of the steel recycling bin and building a few projects. I sold my buzzbox after about a year of use and got $120 for it. :smokin:
 
#16 ·
I have a Lincoln 225 that I have had since HS. Bought it new at Sams for $100

last year, I bought a like new MM175 with bottle for $400 and now never use the 225 any longer.
 
#18 ·
I'm going to say, yes, you are going to regret it. Whenever you buy based on price tag, you are almost guaranteed to regret it.

It's almost pre-ordained in your own words: You're going to buy a small MIG later.

Select carefully, but what you can afford and avoid paying twice what you should have paid (buy one, don't like it/regret it, then have to go buy again).

I started out with stick, a typical AC-225 Lincoln, in 1994 or '95. Haven't touched it since I bought my Lincoln SP-175 Plus about 9 years ago. If I had a need for heavy plate welding, I *might* break it out; more likely I'll just learn to do with the SP.

Good luck either way you decide.

Al
 
#24 ·
Same for me almost to a T. Bought a Lincoln AC-225 and Learned to weld (1992), a few years later got an HF 110V MIG, then last year I got a Hobart Handler 210. The HH210 is :grinpimp: I haven't used the AC-225 in almost 10 years.

jmcbroom-
The refurbed HH-187 will be an awesome first welder and will do everything that you need. Yes, learning to weld with oxy/ace or stick is "best" for arc control and watching the puddle, but if you can only afford one welder, get the HH187 it's $519.99 from toolking (which still comes with a warranty *I think* unlike a craiglist welder).

The auto-dark helmets make welding a lot easier, but not required. I have two of the HF ones one. with a small window (on sale $49) and I just got the large view (on sale $70) They have worked awesome, never been flashed. Even after long periods of being unused (while I was deployed).

If you want I'll even send you my old big view helmet (standard glass).
 
#20 ·
i vote 220v mig, and would say you'd be better off saving up for a 200+amp machine. I started on a 110 lincon, and bought myself a SP175 lincoln. i'm relatively happy with it, but would go miller if I did it again, and probably a 200+amp series miller.

Welders are expensive enough that the "buy-what-i-can-afford-now-and-upgrade-later" policy just ends up wasting your money.
 
#21 ·
I would steer clear of the harbor freight autoshade. A few of the mechanics have them at work and they flash quite a bit. Just get a large viewing window passive mask~$20.

I used an old miller stick welder for a long time, it will work but. I just bought a new mig. The hh187 would do what I needed, so I bought the hh210 for safe measure. It welds absolutely awsome.

I would not recomend a 110v mig welder, but if you want one I will sell you mine.
 
#22 ·
I would steer clear of the harbor freight autoshade. A few of the mechanics have them at work and they flash quite a bit. Just get a large viewing window passive mask~$20.QUOTE]

I've never had any problems with the cheap HF mask. The only time it has ever flashed me was when the sensors were covered up because I was in close quarters. IMHO, it works as good as my buddy's low end speedglass unit. I'm sure that there are better units out there, but for the hobby welder I don't think they are bad.
 
#23 ·
Im a pipeline welder so stick is where im great at. I will always say you need to learn stick before tig or mig because the best mig welder doesnt have shit when you put him in the wind. But for what it seems like your going to do with your welder i would say just save a little more and buy a decent mig. It will do anything you want with it and will be easy to learn. Stick welding isnt easy and to make a good weld in position is even harder. Ive been doing it for years and still have a what the fuck was that weld every now and then.
 
#26 ·
Check Ebay for a Helmet. I got a midline Miller NIB for $90 from a distributer.
 
#30 ·
Where did you find it?
 
#31 ·
The link in the post above mine: http://www.loudfrog.com/itemdetail.aspx?detailID=227215

There is a post on Hobart's site about the vendor. Three people who have ordered from the guy have gotten their welders, and they have all been drop shipped from Miller. And there seems to be no problem registering the welders with Hobart.

The downside is the wait and the "shady-ness" of the deal, I used a credit card, so I'm protected one way or the other.

Here's the link on Hobart's site: http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=28673
 
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