I took the advice of several on here and bought myself a Hobart 187 welder. Now I'm in the process of getting everything else together - helmet, 240 line to the garage, etc.
According to Hobart, the welder pulls a max of 20.5 amps at rated load. I figure I'll install a 30 amp circuit to the garage, about a 75' run from the panel. I also want a 50' extension cord to be figured into the plans.
So, from the panel to the wall plate, it looks like I need #8 wire. The extension cord I could make from #10 wire (although the calculators say #12 is OK). Am I good so far?
On my welding cart I'd like to have a single extension cord that would power one 240 outlet (for the welder) and 4 120 outlets (grinders, etc) - I would be the only one using the cart, so only one tool would be operable at a time. So, in order to do that, I need to run a 8/3 and 10/3 with ground, correct. So a 4 pole outlet, then on the cart take 1 120 leg, the common and a ground to power the 120 outlets. Do I have that part right?
In the panel, the 8/3 wire would have the common and ground wires both wired onto the common rail - correct?
I'm too lazy to look up wire specs amp-ft-gauge, but they're all over the net. As for the other part, you *could* wire it that way, but not legally. You'll need to run your cord to a subpanel on your cart, then split that through separate breakers to your welder and such.
As for the other part, you *could* wire it that way, but not legally. You'll need to run your cord to a subpanel on your cart, then split that through separate breakers to your welder and such.
I'm no electrician, so I don't know the specifics of legality, but you won't have any circuit protection branching a leg off like that.
The pic you posted just looks like a 20 amp 120v twist-lock to me.
There are a few electricians on the board, somebody will come on and explain it better. It's not that big of a deal to run a cord from the wall into a 50 amp subpanel or something on the cart, and have 2-3 breakers, anyway.
There are a few electricians on the board, somebody will come on and explain it better. It's not that big of a deal to run a cord from the wall into a 50 amp subpanel or something on the cart, and have 2-3 breakers, anyway.
I'm not saying it's a big deal, but it is adding a substantial amount to the cost of a "simple" welding cart. If the only way to do this is to add a subpanel to the cart then I'll probably just run two extension cords - one for the welder and one for the grinders. However, if I can "get by" (without setting fire to my house) with one cord I'd prefer it that way.
you can do it with number 8 wire or number 6 you can run 2 hots a ground and a neutral from the panel to the cart from the cart take one of the hots the ground and a neutral and pigtail it to the outlets thus splitting the 220 and making a 110 outlet as for laws they vary from state to state so i couldnt tell you what your laws are in your state
you can do it with number 8 wire or number 6 you can run 2 hots a ground and a neutral from the panel to the cart from the cart take one of the hots the ground and a neutral and pigtail it to the outlets thus splitting the 220 and making a 110 outlet as for laws they vary from state to state so i couldnt tell you what your laws are in your state
aren't all electric dryers wired up this way? they are on a single 240v circut, and power the heating element (240v) and the other electric stuff with 120v(drum, buzzer, timer, etc).
also, read your owners manual for your welder. it *should* tell you what guage wire and what size breaker you need. if i recall correctly, welder circuits use slightly different rules than other electric circuits. if i'm correct, just make sure you use the appropriate wire/outlets for your 120v.
also, i don't think you'd be sharing neutrals, as most typical pure 240v circuits don't use one. and yes, you'd be looking for 8/3 with ground. That will have the 4 conductors you need (2 hots, a neutral, and a ground).
I take it your location is not in the US? Are your tools 220?
Those look like 15 or 30A 250V receptacles.
EDIT: I see that's not your cart now.
ok, the biggest deal I see is lack of properly sized circuit protection.
The typical 120V outlet is either 15 or 20A, the breaker feeding it is going to be 30A which creates an overheat or fire risk. I might consider a 20A pop-out style circuit breaker or fuse.
As for splitting the legs out like that, for a hard install in a home I fully agree. Against NEC code. BUT, when it comes to devices you plug in, it's already being done elsewhere. Driers, ovens, etc. So I'm not so sure the NEC applies the same to "appliances" which is likely the catagory your cart would fit in to.
The 2-pole breaker SHOULD trip when either pole is overloaded or shorts out. Which means you can't overload the neutral or ground.
My other advice is to just step up to 6/3 romex if you are going in walls, etc. If you upgrade later and need 50A, at least the wire will be in place already.
Thanks Travis. I have considered stepping up to 6/3, in the future I might get a buzz box, and I'll need a 50amp run for that anyway.
The overheat/fire risk, that would be isolated to the tool and it's cord, correct? Since the wire on the cart and in the walls will be rated for 30/50amp, I would assume the only thing that would catch fire at anything below 30 amps would be the tool itself - I could live with that.
I like the idea of using the pop-out fuse. Do they make outlets that have that built in - kind of like the ground fault outlets?
:shaking: dude......you need to spend the extra money and do this safely. Put another sub panel on your cart and add the breakers. OK with shit catching on fire inside of a structure? sigh.
I don't know about recepticals with a pop out, but you can get power strips with them relativly cheep. We use them at work all the time to keep from poping breakers if more than one guy runs tools off the same outlet/ extension cord. The pop out will go at the strip rather than the breaker. See if you can find one of the metal cased ones rather than the plastic ones.
BTW my 220V tig machine (Miller syncro 200) runs a 15v receptical on the front panel with a seperate breaker. It only has the one 220v cord so it must be pulling popwer from one leg in the machine. Try millers website and look at the wireing diagram for the machine and maybe you can see how they managed to make it work.
If you want 120V at your cart, you need a supply cord with 4 conductors. Dryers aren't even permitted to be wired without both a ground *and* neutral anymore. If you did use a 4-wire cord, and a 20A 2P breaker at the panel, you could use 120v/20A receptacles at the cart without any extra breakers.
I expect the NEC has a section on sizing the wire and OCP specifically for welders based on their nameplate data i.e duty cycle and primary current. (The CEC does anyway). Based on that, whatever wire size required may be protected by a larger breaker that you would use in a more general-purpose circuit.
I run my Century mig machine (160A@60%duty, 200A@30%duty, I forget the primary current) on a 20 breaker, #12 wire, sometimes a 100' #12 cord; without any problems. The outlet is right next to my subpanel though, which has a #8 feeder.
Meh...I think trying to add a 110V circuit (off the 220V) at the welding cart isn't worth the effort, particularly if you don't know what you are doing with electricity.
I don't have 220V in my garage and I move every few years (military), so I have 50' 10 gauge extension cord that plugs into my dryer outlet for my HH210 and use a seperate 110v extension cord for the grinder, lights, etc.
8/3 or 6/3 wire. then build you own circuit breaker panel on the cart, so you have a 20A 120V for your grinders and stuff & a 30A 240V for your welder. I would NOT just tap a leg of power off for the 120V outlet. it takes a lot of current flow to trip a 30A breaker. If you want to get really technical, by NEC code you need to have a GFIC circuit on that 120V outlet.
you could use something like these breakers to but in a custom box.
I like those, and am leaning towards that kind of setup, it's the same way my generator is setup.
Now, what kind of box do they fit in?
And, I had always planned on using GFCI outlets.
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