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lookin for info on this TIG

1K views 8 replies 7 participants last post by  StinkBug 
#1 ·
A friend of a friend is retiring and selling all his tools. I'll be picking up a few of them, and I'm looking at this TIG setup as well. It's old school for sure, but it's in very good shape, and works well. He has a water cooling system that comes with it as well as argon bottle, and all the cables for stick welding as well. I'm not really sure what it's worth so that's the main question, after that I'm just looking for general info on it. I know it uses contactors/points and they will need to be changed periodically I'm told. Since I've only ever worked with the newer machines I have no idea what that means or if it's really an issue. Would the parts still be available?

Thanks
 

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#6 ·
HF arc start and overlay have virtually nothing to do with the welders current rating. HF is high frequency, high voltage, but virtually no current. The reason these older machines have such a high current need, is primarily inrush current. It takes a hell of a lot of current to initially power the transformer and to charge all of the capacitors. I have a dialarc 250HF, rated input of 101amps at 230v, and it used to sometimes pop a 70a breaker when I flipped it on, regardless of where the output current was set, and regardless of wether or not the HF was on. It never tripped the breaker while welding. I have since put it on a 90a circuit, and it is golden.

Newer machines that are transformer based have inrush current limiting to "soft start" the machine, inverter based machines are also "soft start" but even if they wern't they would have no where near the inrush of a transformer machine.

Don't sell the cooler. That is some dumb advise. #1, a water cooled torch will melt down if you try to use it without a cooler, #2 someone may give you $400 for the cooler, and you will easily spend that converting to an air cooled torch, and #3 if you have ever tig welded anything more than sheet metal, you are going to find that you want that water cooled rig. I have had snake burns around my forearm from doing extended welding with a air cooled torch with the hose wraped around my arm. I spent the money to go water cooled, and have never even thought about going backwards.

So, if you can pick the machine up for $1k or under, I would call it a great deal. Parts should still be available from lincoln. I can still get almost anything for my 26yr old dial arc.
 
#7 ·
Some shop notes on TIG torches:

175 amps is my limit for comfort with an air cooled torch. The most common size air cooled torch out there is probably a 17 series and they are rated to 150 amps. They can be used intermittently above 150 amps but it isn't recommended and it won't be comfortable for long. I think the biggest air cooled torch currently made is a 300 amp model made by Weldcraft. Don't ask me whytf you'd want to use air cooled torch at 300 amps, but it's possible if that's the kind of thing you want to do.

The most common water cooled torch you'll see in non-specialized repair shops is a 20 series. They are rated to 250 amps by most mfg's.

Most manufacturers use the same model numbers for torch sizes/types, so it's semi-standardized. The actual model numbers don't really follow any logical pattern, I think it's some system Linde/Heliarc originally came up with back in the 50's and other manufacturers just went along with it. An "F" somewhere in the model number usually means it's flex head torch. Here's a link for CK if you want to get an idea what the different style torches and front-end parts look like. LINK to CK At a minimum, know 17,18, and 26 series torches all use the big type collets, and 9 & 20 series use the small type collets.

An air cooled torch is nice if you're doing a small job out of the back of your truck somewhere because it's means there's one less machine you have to find an electrical outlet for. Even if the welder never leaves your shop, it's still good to have an air cooled torch for backup to allow you to perform small welding jobs if there's ever a problem with your water cooler. As mentioned above - do not run a water cooled torch dry! It only takes a minute to connect an air-cooled torch if you can't use your cooler. Connecting one dinse plug and a gas fitting is usually all there is to it. There's nothing to "convert" on the welder itself to revert back to air cooled. If you are using a finger amptrol on the torch, you'll have to swap that over too, but 90% of the people out there are using a foot pedal amptrol. You can leave the cooling lines on the water cooled torch connected.

You will probably want to have at least 2 different torches whatever style you decide on. Making small precision welds with a huge torch is possible but it can be awkward. You want to match the torch you use to what you do most frequently.

Used TIG torches can be hard to sell because there's such a small market for them. If you know exactly what you're looking for, it's a buyers market. It's rare to see a *used* air-cooled torch go for more than $75 on Fleabay. If it's missing parts or incomplete they can be had for under $20. You just have to know what parts will work and what parts won't.

If you plan on doing aluminum be warned: It doesn't just get hot at the weld - it gets hot all over!!!! I use a small reflector type heat shield for AL work to help keep my torch hand cool from the added reflected/radiated heat you get when doing AL. The hand heat shield costs something like $7.99 from my local welding supply and it's saved me a lot of crispy fingers.

Once you get familiarized with what effect all the different variables have in TIG, it isn't as mysterious as most people make it out to be. It is an expensive initial investment and the learning curve is steep at first. If you can gather up any AC/DC TIG with a remote amptrol, Hi-Freq, water cooled torch, and cooler for under $1000 I'd say it's a bargain.
 
#9 ·
Well I decided to buy this one. I'll be picking it up tomorrow. Ended up getting it for $600, including an argon tank, a STACK of different filler rods, Tungsten, extra cups, collets, Stick welding leads, plus a spare gas cooled torch, and flowmeter with a split outlet and extra hose for back purging.

I also got a few other goodies. I'll post up some pics when I get it all tomorrow.
 
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