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Old 08-13-2008, 03:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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6G pipe welding test

I will be taking a 6G SMAW pipe welding test on Monday. I've only welded in the 6G position once with SMAW. It was 3" sch 60 pipe, 6010 root and 7018 hot pass, fill and cap.

What size and schedule pipe is used on a 6G coupon? I'm trying to get a feeling for what to expect, as well as knowing what size material to practice on. I have about 10 feet of 3" sch 80 pipe here at the house to use for practice coupons.

Should I use 3 tack welds or 4.. and how long can they be? Any reason not to grind the root bead?

Any advice would be appreciated from those that have taken the test before.

I have about 3 1/2 days to practice my ass off. I want to pass this on the first try. My company is paying for the test. If I pass the test I am pretty much guaranteed a spot as a rig welder or on a special welding crew for our fleet.. as well as at least $8 more an hour than I'm making as a roughneck + lots of OT. The motivation factor is high

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Old 08-13-2008, 03:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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in my experience the 6g test is sch 40 6 inch pipe.

i always use 4 tacks just to make sure it doesnt pull to much when making the root pass. but its all preference.
if i remember right the tacks can be 1/4 -1/2" and i always grind the tacks and feather them out so i can tie it in nice.. i also grind out the root so i get the fill that i want and i can leave alittle bit of the edge of the bevel exposed so your cap doesnt get out of line.


do they make you pass x ray? if so you better have a beautiful bevel/land/fit up
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if it will be x-rayed or not. I should be getting the information packet via email tomorrow, hopefully it will have some specific test guidelines/requirements. If not, I'll give the school a call and find out.

If you have a burn through while welding the test coupon, is all lost? Or do they allow you to grind and repair/reweld it?

I have to drive about 6 hours to Houma, LA to take the test and I dont want to waste their time or mine by not passing the test.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would not grind for a bend test and just do a quick pass with the wire wheel but you probaly should grind, however I would grind the root for a X-ray qualification.

I would dump you for burn through.

Do not sweat it if someone else seems to be going way faster than you, I could do a 6" Sch 80 6G P1 F3-F4 test in under a hour start to pass after doing it 20+ times.

I am used to this (2G/5G for an initial qualification, re-qualifications being done in a straight 6G). Find out if you are qualifying via bend test or X-Ray and pray that it is not a ASME qualification via X-Ray...

Test Coupon:
Provided coupons will be 6 inch diameter schedule, 80 carbon
steel seamless pipe, prepared with a 32 degree bevel to a
feather edge.

Test Positions:
One-quarter (1/4) of the coupon circumference will be welded
in the 2G position and the remaining portion in the 5G position.

Electrodes:

The electrodes used for the test shall be:
E-6010( 1/8" diameter) for the root pass and
E-7018( 3/32" & 1/8" diameters) for the fill and cap passes

Examination Time:
Candidates will have 3.5 hours to prepare, weld and complete
the test coupons.

Preparation and Tacking:
When preparing coupons for tacking, the size of the root face
and the width of the root gap shall be at the candidates
discretion. The four tack welds are to be made using the E-6010
electrode and should be approximately 1/2" in length. All tack
welds shall be of good quality, as they are considered part of
the weld. After tacking the coupon, candidates may feather the
tacks prior to the coupon being presented to the examiner.

Welding:
After the candidate completes tacking of the coupon, it will
be presented to the examiner. The examiner will then mark the
portion of the coupon that is to be welded in the horizontal
2G with the remainder to be used for the 5G position weld.
The candidate will then weld the horizontal 2G root pass,
using an E-6010 electrode with the pipe axis in the vertical
plane. When the candidate completes the 2G root pass, the
coupon shall be presented to the examiner for evaluation.
Providing the 2G root pass is acceptable, the coupon shall
then be placed in the 5G position with the top clearly marked
and the pipe axis in the horizontal plane. Once the coupon is
positioned for welding, the marked positioner shall not be
moved. The candidate will then weld the 5G portion of the
root pass with an E-6010 electrode with the welding
progression upward. The candidate will present the coupon to
the examiner for evaluation upon completion.
If the root pass proves to be acceptable, the candidate shall
complete the fill and cap passes of the 5G weld using
an E-7018 electrode with an upward progression and weave
pattern. The candidate will present the coupon to the
examiner for evaluation upon completion. The coupon will then
be repositioned (axis in vertical plane) to complete the 2G
positional fill and capping using stringers. The candidate
will present the coupon to the examiner for evaluation upon
completion.

Bend Specimens:
Four face and four root bend test specimens are required for
this combined position.Test specimens will be marked on the
coupon by the examiner as per the following sketch. The
specimens should be approximately 1.5" in width and ground
flush on both side with edges deburred. Candidates may radius
the corners of the specimens to 1/8" maximum.
Excessive grinding that reduces the thickness of the
specimens below the nominal thickness shall result in the
test being considered as a failure.

Required Standards:
The root pass shall be of uniform width and the
penetration, neither excessive nor inadequate.
All welds shall be free of grapes, craters, porosity,
undercut, and lack of fusion.
The finished weld shall be uniform, free from undercut or
are strikes. Excessive weld reinforcement is not
permitted and the weld cap must not exceed 3/32".
The guided bend tests shall have no open defects in the
weld or heat affected zone exceeding 1/8" measured in any
direction on the convex surface of the specimen. Open
defects occurring on the corners of the specimen during
bending shall not be considered, unless there is evidence
that they result from slag inclusions, lack of fusion, or
other internal defects.
The failure of any bend specimen shall be considered as a
complete failure of the test.
The performance test may be terminated at any stage of
review, if it becomes apparent that the candidate does
not have the required skill to produce satisfactory
results, or is taking an excessive length of time to
complete any phase of the test.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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if you burn through youll probably fail.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I know everything around here when you go do your 6G its on 12"
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jasonmt View Post
I would not grind for a bend test and just do a quick pass with the wire wheel but you probaly should grind, however I would grind the root for a X-ray qualification.

I would dump you for burn through.

Do not sweat it if someone else seems to be going way faster than you, I could do a 6" Sch 80 6G P1 F3-F4 test in under a hour start to pass after doing it 20+ times.
Thanks Jason.

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Originally Posted by BigBlackJeep View Post
I know everything around here when you go do your 6G its on 12"
12"?? what schedule?

Where in Texas are you? I'm just north of Houston, but the test is in Houma, LA.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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All the 6g I've been around was all schedule 40, 6". Its definately going to make a big difference as to whether you have to have it x-rayed or bent. If you do have it x-rayed make sure you grind that root pass afterwards just make sure "wagon tracks" don't show up. I know a few folks who took the 6g and failed because they didn't grind their root pass.
Another good area to find info is on the AWS forum, lots of people on there seem to know what they are doing.

Good luck!
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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can you find out anymore about who is giving/inspecting for the test? Lots of times this will vary from inspector to inspector, this I'm sure you're aware of. I went to take a 6G test one time and they didn't allow a handheld grinder. that was quite a shock. Talk to anyone that might have tested ahead of you, alot of times you'll find out what to expect. Good luck on the test
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Alright.. I just recieved the email packet from my employer and then called the test facility for the specific info.

I'll be tested on 6" sch. 120 mild steel

- 1/8" 5P+ (6010) root and hot pass
- 3/32" or 1/8" 7018 fill and cap (my choice on the size electrode he said)
- It will be bend tested as per ABS regs , no x-ray
- Grinding of the root is allowed and all equipment is furnished except for personal gear.

The instructor was pretty cool on the phone and said if I needed to, they have practice coupons available that I could weld to get comfortable before I take the test. I might know the results the same day as the test if ABS is available to witness the bend test.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by frontier2k1 View Post
All the 6g I've been around was all schedule 40, 6". Its definately going to make a big difference as to whether you have to have it x-rayed or bent. If you do have it x-rayed make sure you grind that root pass afterwards just make sure "wagon tracks" don't show up. I know a few folks who took the 6g and failed because they didn't grind their root pass.
Another good area to find info is on the AWS forum, lots of people on there seem to know what they are doing.

Good luck!
I'm not sure what you mean by "wagon tracks"? Do you mean that the root needs to be ground smooth, leaving no "ruts" from between the individual beads?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly View Post
can you find out anymore about who is giving/inspecting for the test? Lots of times this will vary from inspector to inspector, this I'm sure you're aware of. I went to take a 6G test one time and they didn't allow a handheld grinder. that was quite a shock. Talk to anyone that might have tested ahead of you, alot of times you'll find out what to expect. Good luck on the test
I didnt expect the test to be on such thick material (sch 120) but that is fine.. I'm glad it is 6" pipe and not 3" or 4". I'm having some test coupons cut and machine beveled in the morning from the 3" sch 80 pipe I had in the garage to practice on.. That should keep me plenty busy practicing until I leave Sunday morning.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what you mean by "wagon tracks"? Do you mean that the root needs to be ground smooth, leaving no "ruts" from between the individual beads?
Wagon tracks are where slag gets trapped in the toes of the weld and this should only happen on the root pass itself. Top remove the slag in the toes of the root some people do minimal grinding of the bead and put in a very hot "hot pass", some people do more grinding and put in a colder "hot pass".

On a RT film elongated slag inclusions or “wagon tracks” are darker density lines that are either a single line or several in parallel and they are generally irregular in width.

Picture from Eastman Kodak "NDT Images" brochure:
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd say take as much time as you're given to do the test. Feather the edges of the bead into the bevel before you run the hot pass. If you get a little out of shape on any of the passes, don't be scared to grind it back smooth. I've heard of several people with little to no welding experience passing a test because they cleaned the hell out of the piece between each pass.

BTW, if you've got time and want a I can usually fit it in my schedule
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Wagon tracks are where slag gets trapped in the toes of the weld and this should only happen on the root pass itself. Top remove the slag in the toes of the root some people do minimal grinding of the bead and put in a very hot "hot pass", some people do more grinding and put in a colder "hot pass".

On a RT film elongated slag inclusions or “wagon tracks” are darker density lines that are either a single line or several in parallel and they are generally irregular in width.

Picture from Eastman Kodak "NDT Images" brochure:
Thanks for the explanation and great pic.

Quote:
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I'd say take as much time as you're given to do the test. Feather the edges of the bead into the bevel before you run the hot pass. If you get a little out of shape on any of the passes, don't be scared to grind it back smooth. I've heard of several people with little to no welding experience passing a test because they cleaned the hell out of the piece between each pass.

BTW, if you've got time and want a I can usually fit it in my schedule
I plan on taking my time and making sure everything is cleaned as best I can between passes. The instructor said there is no time limit as long as I'm working in a timely manner. 6" sch 120 is going to take a little while to fill.

Thanks for the offer, but I doubt I'll have the free time this trip through Lafayette. When I leave Houma Monday, I'll be heading straight home to get some rest before I drive to Oklahoma early Tues. morning

I do come through there twice a month though so I may take you up on it some other time
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzy2000 View Post
Thanks for the explanation and great pic.



I plan on taking my time and making sure everything is cleaned as best I can between passes. The instructor said there is no time limit as long as I'm working in a timely manner. 6" sch 120 is going to take a little while to fill.

Thanks for the offer, but I doubt I'll have the free time this trip through Lafayette. When I leave Houma Monday, I'll be heading straight home to get some rest before I drive to Oklahoma early Tues. morning

I do come through there twice a month though so I may take you up on it some other time
I just wanted to add they may not let you feather edge your coupon depending on the instructor. Your root pass usually is done by the book Make sure you clean your starts extra deep your slag will pit fill at a hot arc start, you normally do not see it because you have already burnt over it. your next pass will show it if you don't

Our 6G was done on schedule 160 3" pipe but we have a goofy instructor and hell make us burn rod all day. I have to burn rod at least once a month to keep my certs in a Nuke.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I see you've found the answers to what size pipe, ect. But keep in mind 6G isn't a "test" it's a position the pipe is welded in.
I've taken 6G welding tests on 3/4" .125W pipe up to 38" .1000W (that's 1" wall thickness). It can range from Carbon Steel to SS to Monel to 9% chrome, ect. Uphill or down, tig stick, flux core, dual shield or hard wire....or any combination.
6G only tells you the physical position of the pipe as the weld is made.
Everything else varies according to application.

JTMcC

I'll add that a mechanical test is always harsher than a simple rt (x-ray) for the welder to pass.

Last edited by JTMcC; 08-19-2008 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So did you pass?
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I see you've found the answers to what size pipe, ect. But keep in mind 6G isn't a "test" it's a position the pipe is welded in.
I guess my thread title was misleading.. Yes, I know 6G only describes the postion of the test. You're the first person I've heard say that the bend test is harder to pass than an x-ray. Thanks for the input.
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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So did you pass?
Sorry for the delayed update. Between driving to Houma and back for the test and then coming home and going to Oklahoma and back I've driven over 1,600 miles in the last 3 days.

I failed the test.

I had a small section about 3/4" wide at the bottom section of the root with some suckback. Basically it was slightly undercut (1/32" or so) on the inside of the pipe in that one spot. I dont know what I did wrong.. too much amperage? Travel speed to slow? Wrong electrode angle? Ugh.. its frustrating.

One thing that kind of threw me for a loop was that they required me to run my root and hot pass downhill, not uphill. I have really only been practicing my uphill techinique as I thought this was how heavy wall pipe was supposed to be welded. As soon as they told me I had to weld it downhill, I knew my chances at passing were much lower.
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Destructive testing is harder for the welder, the weld, and the base metal.
If rt (x-ray) was a more stringent test we could save a fortune qualifying procedures with a simple shot. I'd like that.
Root bend, face bends, pulls and nicks tell you more than the film ever will.

Sorry to hear you missed the test but it happens to everbody eventually, just keep on at it.

One more tip, don't drive 800 for a test unless you know what they are going to require, but you done learnt that one.

Good luck, it can be a harsh world,
JTMcC.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You're the first person I've heard say that the bend test is harder to pass than an x-ray. Thanks for the input.
There are numerous variations on the RT versus bend test for qualification; in the field I deal with I do not know any welders who would prefer RT/UT to ASME Section IX acceptance criteria over a bend test. If we are talking a production weld being subjected to RT for qualification to the code of construction and that is a different story based on the acceptance criteria.

A bend test also has the advantage of being able to be completed shortly after you are done welding the coupon rather than waiting for a NDE company to come in and shoot, develop and interpret.

I am guessing that your problem with the root was on the upper piece at ~3:30-4:00?
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Destructive testing is harder for the welder, the weld, and the base metal.
If rt (x-ray) was a more stringent test we could save a fortune qualifying procedures with a simple shot. I'd like that.
Root bend, face bends, pulls and nicks tell you more than the film ever will.
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

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Sorry to hear you missed the test but it happens to everbody eventually, just keep on at it.

One more tip, don't drive 800 for a test unless you know what they are going to require, but you done learnt that one.

Good luck, it can be a harsh world,
JTMcC.
Yeah it sucks, but I'm not discouraged. This was kind of a rush deal anyways. My supervisors at work know I can weld and the company is in need of about 12 welders across the fleet right now. They told me to call the training dept when I got home this last time and theyd tell me where and when to go for the test. So, I had less than a week to practice. Another problem is my SMAW experience is limited, most everything I've done before is GTAW.

Unfortunately I assumed the root and hot pass would be uphill since it is heavy wall pipe.. obviously I shouldve asked to make sure. Oh well, lesson learned the hard way. But I'm even more determined to do this now.. So I will be practicing like hell so that I can go take the test again soon.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I am guessing that your problem with the root was on the upper piece at ~3:30-4:00?
It was at about 6 o' clock, maybe just a bit shy of that.. 5:45. Very slight undercut.. maybe 1/32" or so below the interior surface of the pipe.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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So I will be practicing like hell so that I can go take the test again soon.[/QUOTE]



There ya go.
Keep in mind it's just a welding test, they can't kill ya.

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Old 08-20-2008, 08:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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It was at about 6 o' clock, maybe just a bit shy of that.. 5:45. Very slight undercut.. maybe 1/32" or so below the interior surface of the pipe.
Make sure that your head is in a good position to watch the keyhole as well as the puddle.
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