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Old 04-18-2010, 01:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Baileigh Manual Punch

As I have been looking at ironworkers in the new and used market I came across this manual unit from Baileigh http://www.bii1.com/ironworkers/hand-punch-160.php and curious if any one has experience with it. Until I can decide/afford a hydraulic unit, thought this may be a good alternative for doing holes in 3/16 and 1/4" material. From their site "Manually Operated Hand Punch. 315" Mild Steel Maximum Capacity. 6-1/4" Throat Depth. Includes Round Punches and Dies for 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16",3/8", 7/16", 1/2", 9/16", and 5/8". Seem to run around 600 for the whole thing.
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Old 04-18-2010, 06:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Doesn't seem like a bad deal. I've thought about something like that or a "Uni-punch". I guess it depends on how many holes you typically deal with. I decided to just get a decent drill press for as much as I need it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If that thing is only 600 with that kind of capacity, thats not a bad deal at all. You can pop a hole with a iron worker or punch like that a hell of alot faster then you can drill it with a drillpress. As long as material deformation is minimull, it's all good. .315 (5/16) is pretty good thinkness. I hardly ever use much over 1.4 in 90% of the time. I might look at getting one of these too. Iron worker is WAY WAY off for me.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi, I just bought one of these - literally unloaded it this morning. Not tried it yet, but as said, hopefully it'll help speed up putting lots of holes in thin-ish plate, which I seem to do a lot.

If you have any specific questions that I can answer by looking at mine, fire away. Looking forward to testing it, but I'm snowed under so it may be a few days.

Al.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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and you can really do 1/4" with this manual punch? i find it almost hard to believe.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
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No, I think max capacity is 5mm (3/16"). See here: http://www.bifabuk.co.uk/ironworkers/hand-punch-160.php

Well, out of curiosity I clamped it badly to a lightweight table and tried it out.

I also took some pics, but I think I need a star, right?

Anyway, using the largest diameter punch (5/8"), I knocked a couple of holes in some 1.4mm sheet (just to try it) - pretty obviously it was very easy.

Went up to 3mm sheet (mild steel), no probs - I had to move down the handle to get more leverage on it, but I hardly had to try to get it to cut through. I had an issue with the table however (was being pulled over), so I couldn't test any thicker material for the moment. I am half way through building a more solid table for some of my tools (this, a 'manual ironworker' from Kingsland (circa 1980), a ratcheting arbor press and a vice or two).

By the way, the handle is 6 foot long (goes from vertical up to just below horizontal forward) so you need a bit of room around this thing.

I can well believe it'll cut thicker stock (and I was using the largest p & d). I look forward to trying it out. I checked that punch and die sets are available before I bought it, so no probs with spares (in metric or imperial I believe).

Looks like it'll save me a lot of time. If anyone wants to post the pics or tell me how, then let me know.

Cheers, Al.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Funny, on the UK site it shows 3/16 the other US site says .315 which is around 5/16"
That is what I am mainly wondering about, what it will actually cut, I know the 8" shear I have is rated for .125, but good luck doing that.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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No, I think max capacity is 5mm (3/16"). See here: http://www.bifabuk.co.uk/ironworkers/hand-punch-160.php

Well, out of curiosity I clamped it badly to a lightweight table and tried it out.

I also took some pics, but I think I need a star, right?

Anyway, using the largest diameter punch (5/8"), I knocked a couple of holes in some 1.4mm sheet (just to try it) - pretty obviously it was very easy.

Went up to 3mm sheet (mild steel), no probs - I had to move down the handle to get more leverage on it, but I hardly had to try to get it to cut through. I had an issue with the table however (was being pulled over), so I couldn't test any thicker material for the moment. I am half way through building a more solid table for some of my tools (this, a 'manual ironworker' from Kingsland (circa 1980), a ratcheting arbor press and a vice or two).

By the way, the handle is 6 foot long (goes from vertical up to just below horizontal forward) so you need a bit of room around this thing.

I can well believe it'll cut thicker stock (and I was using the largest p & d). I look forward to trying it out. I checked that punch and die sets are available before I bought it, so no probs with spares (in metric or imperial I believe).

Looks like it'll save me a lot of time. If anyone wants to post the pics or tell me how, then let me know.

Cheers, Al.

I'll host them. email them to pickett@cmeng.com
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Hi, thanks I have sent the pics.

Sorry about the quality, my phone is crap. Sorry about the mess, I just sprayed my roof & stuff is everywhere.

I forgot to mention there was some slight deformation of the sheet when unloading (removing) the punch. Its no bother for me to straighten, but I suppose if someone was fussed they could fab up some fingers that sit closer to the punch to reduce the local bending on the material. It might be better once the punch wears slightly? I also didn't use lube, so...

The boxes are the various punch / die sets you get. There is a nice knock-in wedge system (like a morse taper drift) for locking the punches in - pretty quick to use.

I haven't aligned the punch / die shown, so blame me for that.

That's it, hope it helps. Will try to report back on thicker stock in the next few days.

Al.
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Heres the pics. I gotta get me one of these!!!














Try a piece of 1/4" and let us know how it goes!
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Sent you a PM, but can you clarify the punching thickness (.315 or 3/16) for others in this thread as well?
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Mudzerk - will see what I can do.

While you're answering Shane, can you tell me what the small black sheet-metal hinge/bracket is for right on the top at the back of the cover? Mine was an ex-demo one, so maybe it isn't fully put together? I can't figure out its purpose?

When I pull the handle fully forward, there is a hole on the top of the gear mechanism, is that for a grease nipple or something (to lube the gears)? Is there a manual (or maintenance pointers) for this? I have found 1 grease fitting so far - is that all I need to take care of?

Any chance of convincing you guys to put all your manuals online (I see you have a library section already) - it'd be useful for people looking at buying your tools and also useful for those who have them and keep getting oily hands all over the manuals supplied with the machines.

Cheers, Al.
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Added to say - just noticed you can see the hole and the bracket in the 2nd pic down.

Cheers, Al.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Mudzerk - will see what I can do.

While you're answering Shane, can you tell me what the small black sheet-metal hinge/bracket is for right on the top at the back of the cover? Mine was an ex-demo one, so maybe it isn't fully put together? I can't figure out its purpose?

When I pull the handle fully forward, there is a hole on the top of the gear mechanism, is that for a grease nipple or something (to lube the gears)? Is there a manual (or maintenance pointers) for this? I have found 1 grease fitting so far - is that all I need to take care of?

Any chance of convincing you guys to put all your manuals online (I see you have a library section already) - it'd be useful for people looking at buying your tools and also useful for those who have them and keep getting oily hands all over the manuals supplied with the machines.

Cheers, Al.

Give me a call, we can get you taken care of..
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Heres two more pics that Al sent me. Thanks for looking into this. It looks like it shears 1/4" just fine.

Great price Shane, I might have to get this before I get a chop saw!



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Old 04-20-2010, 07:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yes.....we have done 1/4" here, no problem.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hi Shane, I can't call - I'm in the UK. Can you PM me the info, or should I get in touch with Chad? Any thoughts on putting the manuals online?

Back to the punch...

I've done some more testing. I stuck the forklift arms over the table to hold it down. I have sent Mudzerk some pics, so hopefully he'll put those up here soon.

So, again with the largest punch, I tested 304 stainless steel in 1.5mm and 3mm thicknesses, along with mild steel in 4mm, 5mm and 6mm.

I must admit, I had my doubts about the 6mm - especially seeing the specs on the UK website being 5mm max, but what the hell, you've got to try it, right?

It cuts it all fine. Of course 6mm is slightly under 1/4", but there's no way that it was marginal enough that the extra fraction would make it a no-go. Getting up to full capacity, you do have to use the full length of the bar, with a little dynamic 'encouragement', but its no bother and to be honest, much easier than I was expecting. Note, the tooling I'm using is not new as it was in the demo model I got - along with some pressed out slugs in the die block to prove it! So I guess its quite a fair test.

The stainless did nothing, and then suddenly punched through with a loud 'crack'. It worked fine, but the difference in the nature of the material is obvious. I got too scared to try any thicker! (New toy, come back in 6 months).

Some thoughts:
1. I found the punch can get stuck in the material and pull out of its holder instead of the stock when unloading. The solution to this is just to ensure the wedge is driven in nice and tight before you start. No big deal, entirely my fault, just part of the learning curve. It worked just fine once I had tapped it in well.

2. As the handle is long, I found I couldn't reach the business end before the punch reached the stock. This was only a problem on the very thickest sample (with the largest punch - so very worst case scenario). I might sort this out on mine by bending the handle forwards from where it is mounted to the tool, so it is in comfortable range through more of the 'working swing'. There is plenty of room to do this, as the swing finishes around horizontal. Also, I'm not mega-tall, which doesn't help.

3. The stock does suffer some deformation when unloading even on the thicker samples. Its a quick job to hammer flat again, and I may not have everything set up just right, but I think I might improve the release 'fingers' a little in the future. There is loads of scope to bring them in and add a rear section - so you still have line of sight to the tool / stock.

Conclusion - I honestly think this thing is going to save me a lot of time at the drill. For the price, you get a decent lump of steel (its about 34mm thick - the main body - from memory) and a good range of tooling. My manual ironworker has a solid bar handle, the Baileigh HP-160 has a tubular handle, I had concerns about what would happen on the thicker stuff with me hanging off the end, but it seems plenty adequate - maybe a couple of tube caps in it would have finished it nicely, but I'm fussy and at the price I don't think you can complain at all. In fact, if they had stuck some plastic tube caps in the ends, I probably would have complained that they were plastic...

All in all, I'm pleased - makes real fast work of chopping out holes in plate & sheet which is exactly what I wanted. I think this is a killer tool, for a very reasonable price. I can't comment on the longevity of the punches yet but they aren't expensive.

Hope the info helps some of you decide. I don't think you'll be disappointed with it.

Cheers, Al.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi Shane, I can't call - I'm in the UK. Can you PM me the info, or should I get in touch with Chad? Any thoughts on putting the manuals online?

Back to the punch...

I've done some more testing. I stuck the forklift arms over the table to hold it down. I have sent Mudzerk some pics, so hopefully he'll put those up here soon.

So, again with the largest punch, I tested 304 stainless steel in 1.5mm and 3mm thicknesses, along with mild steel in 4mm, 5mm and 6mm.

I must admit, I had my doubts about the 6mm - especially seeing the specs on the UK website being 5mm max, but what the hell, you've got to try it, right?

It cuts it all fine. Of course 6mm is slightly under 1/4", but there's no way that it was marginal enough that the extra fraction would make it a no-go. Getting up to full capacity, you do have to use the full length of the bar, with a little dynamic 'encouragement', but its no bother and to be honest, much easier than I was expecting. Note, the tooling I'm using is not new as it was in the demo model I got - along with some pressed out slugs in the die block to prove it! So I guess its quite a fair test.

The stainless did nothing, and then suddenly punched through with a loud 'crack'. It worked fine, but the difference in the nature of the material is obvious. I got too scared to try any thicker! (New toy, come back in 6 months).

Some thoughts:
1. I found the punch can get stuck in the material and pull out of its holder instead of the stock when unloading. The solution to this is just to ensure the wedge is driven in nice and tight before you start. No big deal, entirely my fault, just part of the learning curve. It worked just fine once I had tapped it in well.

2. As the handle is long, I found I couldn't reach the business end before the punch reached the stock. This was only a problem on the very thickest sample (with the largest punch - so very worst case scenario). I might sort this out on mine by bending the handle forwards from where it is mounted to the tool, so it is in comfortable range through more of the 'working swing'. There is plenty of room to do this, as the swing finishes around horizontal. Also, I'm not mega-tall, which doesn't help.

3. The stock does suffer some deformation when unloading even on the thicker samples. Its a quick job to hammer flat again, and I may not have everything set up just right, but I think I might improve the release 'fingers' a little in the future. There is loads of scope to bring them in and add a rear section - so you still have line of sight to the tool / stock.

Conclusion - I honestly think this thing is going to save me a lot of time at the drill. For the price, you get a decent lump of steel (its about 34mm thick - the main body - from memory) and a good range of tooling. My manual ironworker has a solid bar handle, the Baileigh HP-160 has a tubular handle, I had concerns about what would happen on the thicker stuff with me hanging off the end, but it seems plenty adequate - maybe a couple of tube caps in it would have finished it nicely, but I'm fussy and at the price I don't think you can complain at all. In fact, if they had stuck some plastic tube caps in the ends, I probably would have complained that they were plastic...

All in all, I'm pleased - makes real fast work of chopping out holes in plate & sheet which is exactly what I wanted. I think this is a killer tool, for a very reasonable price. I can't comment on the longevity of the punches yet but they aren't expensive.

Hope the info helps some of you decide. I don't think you'll be disappointed with it.

Cheers, Al.
Cool. thanks for all of the info!

Yes, Chad might be a better bet if you are in the UK. Thanks for the review!
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thats a hell of a leverage handle. When does it start to load the material? Do you have to stand on a damn ladder to reach it? Jeez!
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:46 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Well, you've got to get the tonnage from somewhere! If its human powered, your only option is to have a long handle (it only needs to be that long for the thickest stuff).

For medium / large stuff, you can kind of start it off at the 'root' of the handle and work your way out (not as much farting about as it sounds). For thin stuff, you can just stand right at the punch and only use the first part of the handle.

But yes, for me the angle is a bit out and I will change it in the future if I can be bothered.

Al.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:15 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Well, you've got to get the tonnage from somewhere! If its human powered, your only option is to have a long handle (it only needs to be that long for the thickest stuff).

For medium / large stuff, you can kind of start it off at the 'root' of the handle and work your way out (not as much farting about as it sounds). For thin stuff, you can just stand right at the punch and only use the first part of the handle.

But yes, for me the angle is a bit out and I will change it in the future if I can be bothered.

Al.

Not sayin it's not a good piece, just wondering how hard it is to reach the handle with the thicker stuff. If the handle was arced but the same length it would reach the user more easily.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:59 AM   #23 (permalink)
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1. I found the punch can get stuck in the material and pull out of its holder instead of the stock when unloading. The solution to this is just to ensure the wedge is driven in nice and tight before you start. No big deal, entirely my fault, just part of the learning curve. It worked just fine once I had tapped it in well.
Well, I have had luck with my mechanical Ironworker spraying some pb blaster, or wd-40, anti spatter or even pam cooking spray on the punch just before I use it, It swings an arc, so it would either bend the material (thin) or pull the punch out (thicker stuff). Now it slides in and out. Just figured it might be easier than
shimming it every time.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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So I decided to buy one and it showed up yesterday, made a quick stand out of 2"x2"- 3/16" that bolts to the studs in a wall and has a leg on the floor, 1/2" top plate.
Had the 5/8 punch in it, so we started with that and punched 1/4" cold roll plate without much effort. Just worked my way up the handle and it was through at waist level. The stand is 30" high, so puts the working area at around 39" high, handle is pretty close to ceiling and lights.
So far I am happy with it and can get some more pics in a day or so if anybody wants more than the ones posted.
I had also ordered the manual ironworker, but was told a 6-8 weeks backorder on it.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
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So I decided to buy one and it showed up yesterday, made a quick stand out of 2"x2"- 3/16" that bolts to the studs in a wall and has a leg on the floor, 1/2" top plate.
Had the 5/8 punch in it, so we started with that and punched 1/4" cold roll plate without much effort. Just worked my way up the handle and it was through at waist level. The stand is 30" high, so puts the working area at around 39" high, handle is pretty close to ceiling and lights.
So far I am happy with it and can get some more pics in a day or so if anybody wants more than the ones posted.
I had also ordered the manual ironworker, but was told a 6-8 weeks backorder on it.

Thanks for the nice review. Lets see that stand!
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