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Old 05-03-2010, 03:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Miller Diversion 165!! HELP!!

Okay, I was using this machine to weld up some 1/8" steel. I ran 3 beads about 4" long. Put the torch down, turned the machine and gas off and went and got something to drink. When I come back and started welding again the machine wouldn't weld the steel worth a shit. The weld had porosity and while trying to weld the bead would just spatter. The torch is getting gas, the metal was cleaned w/ a wire wheel, same amp settings as before, and the high frequency start quit, so now it is a scratch start (wasnt doing this before), same gas settings. Pretty much the same settings that I was using before the machine started acting funny. Thought maybe it was the tungsten, so I swapped a new stick in and the same thing happens.. The kicker is I can weld stainless and aluminum just fine just not mild steel, but I still have to scratch start. I also tried adjusting the argon settings and the same thing keeps happening. Has anybody had this problem with their machine?? What did you do to fix it?? Is there something that I am doing wrong?? I am at a loss of words. Could it be the controls on the torch?? Do you think the boards inside the welder took a dump?? Any help will be greatly appreciated
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My diversion does not have this problem...My power cable running to the weldcraft LS7 torch broke for some odd reason rendering my normal use of the foot petal....it is nice to have finger control though....My machine will weld any steel perfectly fine...but sucks on aluminum here lately. 1/8th inch is not out of reach with this machine and it should weld fine. I can't think of any reason why you could not repeat the same weld using the same settings and gas flow...maybe it was your material, maybe it wasn't clean enoughin that particular spot?? From what I've noticed...with chromoly I usually forget to throughly clean and it still welds fine Don't know man....if you find the answer...post it up to help other troubleshoot also.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i have the same welder but never have had that issue. do you have the pedal? maybe take the torch apart and check the switch for the power and what not.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My diversion does not have this problem...My power cable running to the weldcraft LS7 torch broke for some odd reason rendering my normal use of the foot petal....it is nice to have finger control though....My machine will weld any steel perfectly fine...but sucks on aluminum here lately. 1/8th inch is not out of reach with this machine and it should weld fine. I can't think of any reason why you could not repeat the same weld using the same settings and gas flow...maybe it was your material, maybe it wasn't clean enoughin that particular spot?? From what I've noticed...with chromoly I usually forget to throughly clean and it still welds fine Don't know man....if you find the answer...post it up to help other troubleshoot also.
This is what has got me wandering why?? I maybe have stopped for 10min at the max. The thing that concerns me is that it sucks ass welding steel, but stainless being the same current welds fine, just have to scratch start (which I have never had to do with the machine until now).

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i have the same welder but never have had that issue. do you have the pedal? maybe take the torch apart and check the switch for the power and what not.
No, I have the torch adn I took it apart and behind the cover, at the dial and button, there is a microchip that goes into a plug in the torch body. The chip was loose, but I can still adjust the amp up and down and start the weld but the high freq start just doesnt work. I dont think it is that, but I could be wrong. I called my local miller service tech and he didnt even know what it could be.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:12 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Red face

Where you alone could someone have messed with your settings.

To much gas flow gas flow can cause turbulence which can cause porosity or dirty metal. Almost sounds like the wrong polarity causing all your splatter problems . Did your back cap come loose or have a crack that is sucking in air .

If your high frequency is not working it is real easy to screw up the tungsten.

Also the lack of High Frequency could just be the start of more problems if it does not work at all how can you weld aluminum??
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Also the lack of High Frequency could just be the start of more problems if it does not work at all how can you weld aluminum??
Thats the important question. Answer is, he couldnt. Arc would be impossible to control (if it would even establish one) and he would never form a puddle.

Also, you said it welds stainless just fine. If thats correct, then the problem is not with the machine. As far as your welder is concerned there is no difference between CS or SS so I have to wonder how accurate all of your description was. If it welds SS but you get porosity on CS, then your problem is in the material. Do you get good color bands on the SS, or is it dull gray. Bright colors eliminate the possibility of a gas issue as well.

You sure you have the settings right? Is the output set to remote and start set for HF and not lift arc?
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thats the important question. Answer is, he couldnt. Arc would be impossible to control (if it would even establish one) and he would never form a puddle.

Also, you said it welds stainless just fine. If thats correct, then the problem is not with the machine. As far as your welder is concerned there is no difference between CS or SS so I have to wonder how accurate all of your description was. If it welds SS but you get porosity on CS, then your problem is in the material. Do you get good color bands on the SS, or is it dull gray. Bright colors eliminate the possibility of a gas issue as well.

You sure you have the settings right? Is the output set to remote and start set for HF and not lift arc?
Yes it welds stainless just fine and has good colorbands throughout the weld itself. I'm 99.9% sure it isnt a gas issue and material I took a grinder and took all the mill scale off and took it to bare metal.. My major concern right now is what happen to the HF start??
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Why the heck are you asking this question on Pirate?

You paid for outstanding warranty coverage and factory tech support - call Miller up and take advantage of it.

http://www.millerwelds.com/service/contactus.html

They'll have you squared away in no time at all.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well if you get good color on stainless and porosity on steel its contamination from the base material or filler, there really isnt any other possibility.

As for the HF start, is the output and start mode setup like I mentioned? Pedal screwed in securely?
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey I know this post is a little old but what did you find out? I just bought a Miller 165 last week and it's doing the same thing. Worked fine to start with but now it sucks. Tried everything and still the same. Won't weld Aluminium at all, HF start isn't the same as it was the first time and when welding steel it leaves porosity. I'm calling the dealer Monday but was just checking to see what resolved your issues.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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if it is hot rolled, you will have to grind into the metal past the mill scale to fresh metal, weld fast, and not too hot. wire wheel is not adequate prep for hot rolled imho. you need to get below that mill scale where there is no more hot rolled pores to be seen. TIG on hot rolled can turn nasty pretty easy if you do not grind it out and/or run too hot. I would also focus on moving quickly with plenty of amps so you do not start boiling shit from inside the metal. if you move slowly it will want to pull some contaminants into the weld more quickly as well as oxidize which can contribute to the porosity thing. your other metals would probably be cleaner than hot rolled to begin with.

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The OP never did get back. I wonder as to what his problem was .

i am going towards poor prep they never did say if this was new metal or had been laying around for years.

To anyone with new to you welders get the operators manual get to know all the ins and outs these new welders are having some many new bells and whistles it is real hard to keep up.

Sad fact we get so many machines in just from operator error but they need to be billed a hour labor if the machine is brand new.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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As with the guy who stated this thread, I had purchased the Miller 165 new, brought it home and welded with it on steel thinking, “Sweet”! Weld was great. I switched to AC and tried aluminum ¾ wide by 1/8 thick without bring a pool and only melting it. I switched back to DC with the same setup as before and same steel, the weld was porosity with splatters. I checked the gas, tungsten and tried several pieces of steel and/or aluminum with negative results on all. On aluminum it would do one of two things, completely melt it or make black arc marks with no pooling. Also when pressing the foot peddle, sometimes it would start and other times it wouldn't. I'd let off the peddle and press again and it would start. Gas would start everytime.

Ended up calling the dealership explaining the problem asking if I could just exchange it for another. That was a big NO explaining it was just like a car. Once you buy it, it's yours. They recommended I call Miller and I did. The person I talked to wasn't very helpful only recommending that I take it to a service center.

This machine is less than a week old setting at a service center being worked on. Technician said he should know within a week what the problem is. When I get results from the service center, I'll post them but for now I'm without a BRAND NEW WELDER. Disappointing.

Since buying and having this problem, I've searched the internet finding only three negative reports that describe identical the issues I'm having with mine. Guess those odds aren't really to bad considering....

Last edited by N9BYY; 02-07-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9BYY View Post
As with the guy who stated this thread, I had purchased the Miller 165 new, brought it home and welded with it on steel thinking, “Sweet”! Weld was great. I switched to AC and tried aluminum ¾ wide by 1/8 thick without bring a pool and only melting it. I switched back to DC with the same setup as before and same steel, the weld was porosity with splatters. I checked the gas, tungsten and tried several pieces of steel and/or aluminum with negative results on all. On aluminum it would do one of two things, completely melt it or make black arc marks with no pooling. Also when pressing the foot peddle, sometimes it would start and other times it wouldn't. I'd let off the peddle and press again and it would start. Gas would start everytime.

Ended up calling the dealership explaining the problem asking if I could just exchange it for another. That was a big NO explaining it was just like a car. Once you buy it, it's yours. They recommended I call Miller and I did. The person I talked to wasn't very helpful only recommending that I take it to a service center.

This machine is less than a week old setting at a service center being worked on. Technician said he should know within a week what the problem is. When I get results from the service center, I'll post them but for now I'm without a BRAND NEW WELDER. Disappointing.

Since buying and having this problem, I've searched the internet finding only three negative reports that describe identical the issues I'm having with mine. Guess those odds aren't really to bad considering....
You did change tungstens when switching from steel to aluminum right?
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You did change tungstens when switching from steel to aluminum right?
He shouldn't need too. Miller inverters are recommended for use with 2% Ceriated (Orange) which works equally well with ferrous and non-ferrous material.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Alrighty then... still kinda new to Tig and all I heard is red for steel and green for Aluminum.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Green tungsten for a transformer based machine, NEVER on an inverter based machine!

Scott.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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He shouldn't need too. Miller inverters are recommended for use with 2% Ceriated (Orange) which works equally well with ferrous and non-ferrous material.


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Alrighty then... still kinda new to Tig and all I heard is red for steel and green for Aluminum.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...lectrode-guide
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Green tungsten for a transformer based machine, NEVER on an inverter based machine!

Scott.
Actually I prefer ceriated on transformer machines as well, maintains a blunt tip fairly well with minimal balling. Also more stable at higher amperage and handles higher EN better.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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You know there comes a time in a man's life when he should face the facts and eat crow... NOW is one of those times for me.

When I bought this welder I already owned a Lincoln mig welder and one of Harbor fraight's cheap tig welders. I had two tanks of gas thinking one was argon and the other was argon/CO2. When I hooked up the Miller 165, I thought I'd used the argon tank. When it was depleated I switched to the other tank but trying everything at that point. Well after bitching and complaining for two weeks that this stupid welder wasn't working, I discovered that both of my tanks of gas were argon/CO2.

I changed out a tank for argon and have no complaints. This is one FINE welder and does a great job. I was able to stack dimes on aluminum with no problem and able to run a fine bead of weld on steel.

Hope this helps the next guy that searches the web for problems with the Miller 165 and he doesn't have to go through what I did.

Thanks everyone....
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Thanks for coming clean on the problem, most won't do that in fear they'll look stupid. With your post you are helping other people who may run into the same issue.

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Old 02-15-2012, 12:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Yes thanks for fessing up***

This happens all to often people using the wrong shielding gas.

Goes to prove you can`t really tig weld to well with 75/25
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:27 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Did the gas change work?

I actually had the same thing happen to me too. I got a new bottle 2 months ago and when they exchanged it I got a 75/25. I didn't even think of checking because the first thing you think of is ground, tungsten or wiring and even changed where the welder is located.
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