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Old 12-23-2010, 08:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
D60
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De-sucking the JD2 Notchmaster

I went from an extremely tired Pro-Tools notcher to my Notchmaster. First day I went to use it had to do some wacky angle and the NM wouldn't do it 'cause I couldn't slide the bearing block back like the PT would. Even "normal" angles are tight on holesaw clearance.

I finally got around to doing something about it. The stock plate for the bearing block was 3/4". In order to make sure the bearing block stays square I decided I didn't want to depend solely on the bolts in the slot underneath, but also make a slot in which the block itself seats. So I started w a chunk of 1" plate and milled a .250 deep slot for the bearing block.

I was also annoyed w how the NM requires a hex key and a wrench to change the angle, so I tapped my new plate 1/2-20 and just ran a bolt from the underside. So far so good, but if it proves insufficent I can easily open up the hole and return to the old system.

I've got about 4" of adjustment which is more than I'll ever need. It could be less but this was a prototype. I coudn't remember how much adjustment the PT allowed, and I looked at Billavista's write-up on the JMR and guesstimated scale based upon the pics (I was actually surprised BV didn't list the length of the slots given how thorough he is on everything).

I copied the original on location of pivot point and inner edge, so the angle scale on the NM is still accurate (as it ever was).

I'm also using standard hex head cap screws for the bearing block. For some reason I can't stand using an allen key upside down and blind.

The Dykem will wear off...............in time. Check out my newly installed riser block on the mill (also sticks out like a sore thumb... maybe I should paint it).
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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How much to make another one?
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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....or 2
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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or 3. pretty slick
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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LOL, I honestly expected replies saying it's not necessary and I wasted a bunch of my time. The thread is young tho....

I suggested it to Swag Offroad, but dunno if he could make any money w it. Plus how much are people really willing to invest in a $250 notcher?
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Interested here if the price was right.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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A few months ago I drew up my own version of a modified Notch Master. I have about a dozen or so project that are always on the back burner when things get slow in the shop. I wanted to be able to notch on both sides of the clamp.

I am honored that D60 thought of me as this is an item that I will get going into production in two weeks. Stay tuned.

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Old 12-24-2010, 12:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag Off Road View Post
A few months ago I drew up my own version of a modified Notch Master. I have about a dozen or so project that are always on the back burner when things get slow in the shop. I wanted to be able to notch on both sides of the clamp.

I am honored that D60 thought of me as this is an item that I will get going into production in two weeks. Stay tuned.

Troy
I think your last drawing is dead on. I tried to swing mine around to the other side yesterday for shits and grins. Seems the main limitation is the pivot point being too close to the clamp.

What are you planning on putting into production? An entire notcher or just a replacement arm? Just curious.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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In those drawings, you don't have the offset that's built into the factory piece, or the OP's piece. While it would work with it just straight like that, when you do angled cuts, the hole saw will run into the body of the vise sooner.

Edit: unless you're going to build a new mount also, the grey/tan part.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yeah but lack of offset makes it neutral for working on either side........which was the other problem w trying to swing mine around now that it's mentioned.

edit: and I guess that explains why the vise slides left/right on the JMR design, which had me a bit puzzled until now
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah but lack of offset makes it neutral for working on either side........which was the other problem w trying to swing mine around now that it's mentioned.
A new pivot hole further out would fix that, just like you said. Only downside to that, is that the angle markings (for what they're worth) would be useless. I'd be willing to trade that for the notch-from-both-ends function though....
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A new pivot hole further out would fix that, just like you said. Only downside to that, is that the angle markings (for what they're worth) would be useless. I'd be willing to trade that for the notch-from-both-ends function though....
Totally. The scale is kinda handy but it's no problem to just keep a separate protractor lying around. The old PT I used didn't have a scale or it had worn off..........we didn't know any other way but to use a protractor. I like the Starrett miter saw unit but whatever makes you happy.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Cool upgrade

D60, if you were happy with the old Pro-Tools notcher (design), why not get another, instead of modifying the JD2 Notchmaster? Better clamp design, or?
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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D60, if you were happy with the old Pro-Tools notcher (design), why not get another, instead of modifying the JD2 Notchmaster? Better clamp design, or?
The PT wasn't mine, just used at former employer. When shopping for myself the JD2 looked nice, plus I have a JD2 bender which is completely non-sensical reasoning.

I like(d) how the JD2 swings the hole saw while the PT requires the work or the notcher itself to swing. In practice this doesn't much matter because you can just set the angle w a protractor then load the work.

In hindsight I woulda ordered the PT for myself and be done w it. But now that I had the JD2 there was no easy way to dump it off used and go buy the PT w/out eating at least $100 or more (IMO).

It does annoy me that I ponied up for - let's call it it a "mid range notcher" - and then had to put all this time into re-working it just to get it to a level I consider acceptable. I shoulda paid $30-$50 less for the PT and gone about life fat dumb and happy.

I like the clamp on the PT more, too. Seems more positive and doesn't slip or clamp cocked like the JD2.
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Old 12-24-2010, 04:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Don't pay too much attention to the simple CAD models I created. These were done from memory without any actual measurements. I tend to create very rough models and place them in my to do folder and dig them out of the archives when I feel the need to create a new product.

I will try to create a replacement arm like D60 that will allow you to notch on both sides of the clamp and allow for adjustable of the bearing block.

Troy
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Don't pay too much attention to the simple CAD models I created. These were done from memory without any actual measurements. I tend to create very rough models and place them in my to do folder and dig them out of the archives when I feel the need to create a new product.

I will try to create a replacement arm like D60 that will allow you to notch on both sides of the clamp and allow for adjustable of the bearing block.

Troy
Cool
Troy, you seem to have a knack for making products that improve on existing designs... Keep up the good work.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:13 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I've emailed all the vendors in this 'mid range' notcher market and while each are good in their own ways, each has issues or limitations the others didn't or basic design things I didn't like. The slotted slide is sweet and the proposed longer pivot will add to what this one can do... I just don't have a mill to make my own parts to 'fix' and otherwise new tool. I haven't been able to justify the cost on something I didn't like the base design of...

I will be patiently waiting to see the updated product.
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:47 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Got one of those notchers on order,so I think I will be copying your design
On a serious note for the design to be that flawed did anyone actually try the prototype properly before putting it into production?
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm sure they tested it, since it does work well. I'm very happy with my notcher overall. In fact, I've only ever run into a problem due to the fixed bearing block once or twice--each time I was able to get past it by cutting my tube a little bit shorter, so the holesaw is starting to bite on the end of the cut instead of the side of the tube, if that makes sense.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Got one of those notchers on order,so I think I will be copying your design
On a serious note for the design to be that flawed did anyone actually try the prototype properly before putting it into production?
I've wondered that too. But as already stated, it does work, but much like Yager I just wasn't happy w it and felt limited (and ripped off) each time I used it.

The kicker is that, IMO, if they had just put the bearing block maybe 1/2" further back it would open up a world of possibilities, and I just can't believe you lose that much rigidity in your shaft with 1/2".

Note that the original setup requires you to install the bearing block first because the mounting screws don't clear the pivot plate. I'll attach a pic. It doesn't matter because they countersunk the screws, but in some ways it *almost* looks like a design oversight.

Because I'm now using hex head cap screws I can't go as far forward as the block would have sat originally...........and I just don't see it as a problem.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I installed the bearing block by swinging it out to 50 or so, and bolting it on. Never really struck me as an afterthought in the design.

The pivot bolt I solved with a tiny tack weld on the bolt head, didn't like using 2 tools, nor did I like the head of the allen always being full of chips. I like that no part of the pivot is threaded, as all the threaded stuff that gets regularly adjusted gets stripped.

I like the sliding bearing block idea, but would rather move the bearing block back just far enough to use the longer JMR hole-saws and simply use a longer shaft. I haven't noticed any issues with mine being too close, but i believe that's due to how short I cut the tube in preparation for a notch.

My Notchmaster has held up a whole lot better than my Pro-Tools notcher, I can live with the couple minor issues and slightly higher price because it still functions every bit as well today as when I bought it, where as my Pro Tools is done, has about the same use on it and is absolutely worn out in every way imaginable.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:42 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I installed the bearing block by swinging it out to 50 or so, and bolting it on. Never really struck me as an afterthought in the design.
No, it's not....and after typing that yesterday I looked at my first pic in the thread and realized you could install it by just swinging it out. Still, they theoretically had some reason for putting it where they did, and seems we both agree it could be better if it were back a bit further.

The PT I used had built countless chassis' in a local shop, it was heavily worn, the plate visually flexed some during use (altho I gotta admit I generally used it w the bearing block too far back 'cause I was too lazy to move it), and yet I was surprised by the accuracy and repeatability...........and it was kinda like a nice leather chair that's been broken in. There were a couple days I did 60+ notches a day for a large handrail project in 1.5" pipe (1.906") and overall it was a pleasure to use.

If I had to do it all over again I'd just buy a bearing block and build a JMR copy, it's basically just a couple pcs of flat bar.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Here is what I have come up with so far.

You can see the evolution and my prototyping process. There are a lot of things that are done the old fashion way, pen, paper and a printer.

The pictures are pretty self explanatory. Anything I am missing?

Thoughts?

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Old 01-08-2011, 11:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I figured I would throw in a bonus picture. No plans on making one of these, however I did make this mount for a project I did a couple years ago. It worked well for a prototype.

Troy
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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$45 ballpark would be great. Re waterjet, what are you gonna do for the pivot hole? Counterbore, tap, or just switch to a standard hex head bolt/nut?
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