Finally: Adjustable Wheelbase

[randii]

On those long overnight drives from home to events (hey, I have a day-job!), odd things get considered. Fueled by caffeine and sunflower seeds, the ridiculous becomes reasonable...

Yet the next morning, by light of say, I often wind up shaking my head, wondering what the hell I was thinking.

Neil Lillard has the same long drives, but he's ensconced in a killer tow vehicle, toting his race rigs... and he's already taken some pretty crazy ideas and nursed them to top-10 finishes...

Even now, he's competing in the latest of these...

Look close -- beneath that trademark Ronald McDonald paint job is an 18-inch adjustable wheelbase...

I bet the rules will change to outlaw this shortly, but this is the same creativity possessed by Smokey Yunick had... and at Baja Rocks, Dan has staked a claim to having the only competition that truly lets you 'run what ya brung,' with no penalties for rear-steer, tire-size, or anything...

4x4Wire will have a follow-up feature on this latest kink in suspension shortly...

Randii

[Pdaddy]

Adjustable in cab on the fly/rocks? Give more... give more wouldnt 18 inches put the coilovers at some crazy angles or is this a adjust while sitting in the pits type deal, were that would be relocated as well?

[ChrisPy]

thats a lot of driveshaft spline.... especially on the rear.

[ehsankiani]

Nice.. Would love to see some detailed pics..

[thecarman]

Look at where the rear suspension links mount to the frame on the driver side, just behind the "door" openeing.

Is that a slider system built into the frame, so that the link mounts can move forwards and backwards?

[patooyee]

Originally posted by thecarman
Look at where the rear suspension links mount to the frame on the driver side, just behind the "door" openeing.

Is that a slider system built into the frame, so that the link mounts can move forwards and backwards?

Yes.

This has been done once before on a Scorpion chassis, I believe it was. problem is that most comps already have a rules outlawing this. They'll let you run so long as you don't actually use the system during the comp. (I imagine this includes overnight, too.)

Also, he may have 18" of extension, but I bet that that is limited by his rear driveshaft.

Anyone got any more pics of that rig though?

J. J.

[RHINO]

finally?? for who?? adjustable w/b is nothing new it just never got popular since it isnt, or at least wasnt allowed in comps. looks like a nice rig though.

[injectedEB]

Originally posted by ChrisPy
thats a lot of driveshaft spline.... especially on the rear.

my thoughts exactly - I was also wondering if the front truely is not flexing - looks like the body is parallel to the axle in that pic..

Either way, power to him for trying it - definitely interested in more pics and hearing/seeing how well it works.

[convertiyota]

If it's 18" wb changeable, is it equally 9" front/rear??

[GRMhick]

I have thought out the same thing, make it hydro powered.. and also make 2 slips insted of one.. and on the middle slip attach a driveshaft bearing (i dunno what they are called) so you run 2 long slip shafts going to the rear axle.. and it is all hydro powered.. I think it woudl be pretty cool to get your front tires up on a rock, then lock up the front breaks, and pull up the rear with the hydro...

Garrett

[MellowYellow]

It looks to me that it could be used to avoid unwanted rear steer, especially if you could move one side at a time. You could even add more rear steer.

It would have to be hydo and on the fly. Sure would be fun to watch.

[jalapeno]

i spoke with Neil about this briefly a couple of months ago. He told me he was building the frame more or less spherically. purpose being when you roll, you roll back on to your wheels and dont do as much damage during the roll over. makes sense, I guess. Things at right angles to the ground will auger where round rolls through. He also built the whole thing himself with help from a friend who is a tech at a local mortorcycle dealership. i have to admit it looks better (from here) than i thought it would.

guess if you want something done right ya gotta do it yourself....

[onetoncv]

I like it its innovative- Jess

[Wilson]

Since this is a true "run what you brung" comp and a $50k first prize, it's worth the time and expense to get the advantage for this one comp. He'll figure out how to stay legal for the other competitions.
I like the idea, prerun the terrain and choose your wheelbase prior to the start.

[patooyee]

Originally posted by Wilson
Since this is a true "run what you brung" comp and a $50k first prize, it's worth the time and expense to get the advantage for this one comp. He'll figure out how to stay legal for the other competitions.
I like the idea, prerun the terrain and choose your wheelbase prior to the start.

You'd have to prerun far in advance as most comps don't let competitors on the course as long as they are present before the event begins. And, at that point, you wouldn't know the routes, which accounts for a LARGE portion of the difficulty. I would think doing that would hurt as much as it would help because you could run everything wrong, let the wheelbase all the way out, and end up screwing yourself for the comp.

J. J.

[LAME]

This guy did the hydro wheelbase thing 3 years ago

Anyone know who this is?

[DRM]

The driveshaft could be handled with an intermediate shaft and a carrier bearing, assuming you have enough room behind the Tcase to mount an 18" travel intermediate shaft with the carrier bearing attached to the sliding rear suspension portion.

[ROCKSFORBRAINS]

Originally posted by LAME
This guy did the hydro wheelbase thing 3 years ago

Anyone know who this is?

Brian Cook. He lives down here about 30 min from me so we wheel together alot. By the way, that's not a scorpion- he and a freind built it in 3 months with a harbor freight bender .
They had just finished it the day before that picture was taken.
Yeah it does work good. He can start to climb a big ledge with the wheelbase at it's shortest (103" and when it starts to get tippy or spinning he can lengthen it out untill it feels right. Usually pops over stuff everybody else is deathly afraid of. When the middle hangs he can shorten it up.
It uses a single 2" cylinder to adjust a small subframe that slides on a track. Its 1/4 elliptic rear and uses a monster long slip driveshaft.

[BillaVista]

You could always use a driveshaft like this:

http://www.visteon.com/about/features/2001/073001.shtml

[Slagburn]

um, it's not illegal according to the RRCA rulebook-

"Manual wheelbase changes are allowed."

I was going to copy that whole section over but I'm using a Mac, so it didn't work.

[Big Rich]

I've been waiting for someone to show up with one. I think Welder boy was talking about do'n also.

Rich

[Pdaddy]

That "Big Iron" monster thing from the 00 farmington finals had adjustable hydralic wheel base too, its not a new thing to try, but I havent seen anyone finish in the top ten at an event with it, so is it really practical ? Id say for an avid wheeler wanting something unique on the trail it would be cool but for comp, is it worth it........

[XtremeEngineering]

Think about the advantage of being at 105-110 in Farmington and shorten up to 100-105 in JV. Neil is always been a guy that is willing to try something different. I think it's way cool that he did it. Now if he could just find a spotter worth a shit, I think he might do alot better.

[ASH]

Originally posted by ChrisPy
thats a lot of driveshaft spline.... especially on the rear.

Any thing is possible these days, I'm sure me or Jess could build some thing that would work.

[randii]

Seems to me like driveshaft is no big deal... you can buy bulk spline cut from 20-foot stock blanks, splined the whole merry way... and corresponding female spline slips in 8-inch standards. Align and weld the female insert into the end of a 20' stick of DOM, and you have a shaft that can expand to just under 40' and compress to 20'

As to who did it first, I guess in the end I'm not sure I care... Neil is the first guy to show up to the big leagues in a vehicle that WORKS. (I purposefully leave out Big Iron, and those of you who saw it hydraulically lock up and then endo in Farmington will understand why...)

I do expect that the rules will change to disadvantage this, but kudos to Neil for pushing the limits, $50/25/15K for the first three places makes it worth a one-event wonder, IMHO.

TANGENT ON
- I referenced Smokey Yunick in my original post -- he gave rule makers FITS. Smokey was known for bending the rules and having hundreds little tricks to hide the rule bending, especially if it tweaked off NASCAR. He read the rulebook, saw where it wasn't fully defined, then improvised to take advantage of it.
- He showed up with an fan-driven alternator mounted in the slipstream, offset body/chassis combinations, acid-dipped bodies and frames, a perfect 7/8-scale car, and then there's the fuel tank.... NASCAR officials once pulled the gas tank out of his Pontiac after they thought his car was getting excessive fuel mileage. It turned out there was nothing wrong with the tank, so they had to pass him. After the OK, Yunick got in the car-- with the gas tank lying on the ground -- fired it up and left the NASCAR inspectors dumbfounded (The gas tank was the right size but he tweaked the fuel line to hold a couple of gallons of gas).
- On the straight-and-narrow side of the fence, he held patents on every thing from variable power steering systems to movable racetrack barriers, and helped GM develop the small block.
- I met Smokey at SEMA 2001 -- it was pretty cool. That sucker could barely hear and was looking back at me through thick lenses, but he was still sharper -- and funnier -- than hell... We lost a great one when he died, a few months later.
TANGENT OFF

I hope to see more creativity in the sport -- even if it means Rich, Ranch, Bob, and others end up pulling their hair out in clumps.

Randii