Eliminating a wicked case of axle wrap?

[Will24]

Quick rundown on the truck...

1993 toyota SR5 x-cab, v6 5 speed, 4.56 gears. Truck still rides on IFS (due to lack of funding currently, when I had the money, I was dumb enough to lift the ifs) Lift is pro-comp stage II, with 3.5 blocks in back and a short add-a-leaf. Starting a few weeks after I lifted the truck I began to have a wicked case of axle wrap. I made sure everything was tight in the rear suspension and tried a set of the "traction" bars that bolt between the bump stop and the spring hanger, they didn't do jack shit. I am trying to solve this problem on a budget. My thinking is that a set of heavy springs should solve the problem (priced out Alcan's already) but I am not positive. One of my buddies offered to help me fab up a set of ladder bars but I am thinking that may be a bandaid fix to a set of weak springs. Before I lifted the truck it sat level and exhibited no signs of the springs being weak (squatting, wheel hop, etc)

So, my question... Are weak springs my entire problem? Should a good set of springs solve the issue? Am I on the right track at all?



Let me know, I Am open to all suggestions
Will

[4CrawlR]

The 3.5" blocks are the likely cause, that's also the reason the traction bars did not work well, Its the long distance between the center of the axle and the springs that makes the axle wrap, its the leverage of the axle torque over that moment arm on the springs that makes them twist under load. Replace the block with a set of lift springs, especially a set with anti-wrap leaves (like Alcan uses) and it'll likely be cured.

[stomper4x4]

Your 3.5" lift blocks are the problem....get ridd of them and compasate with a longer shackle ,or a spring with more lift, or both.....Lift blocks give your axle more leaverage on the spring, couseing them to rap under acceleration....

[EXO]

dont use any blocks bigger than 2" , if you like the flex of your springs keep them and build longer shackles (will also help your pinion angle if stock pads) and build a traction bar.

[THE HANS]

it could be the spring clamps too, i had killer axle wrap till i clamped my springs, but blocks are gay, but longer shackles(if too long) can result in bad pinion angles, witch result into bad axle wrap cause its easier for it to roll up the diff, good luck, axle wrap sucks

-Hans

[Will24]

Thanks for the help guys. The blocks were on my mind... alcan wants right around $500 for the 5" lift springs shipped and that seems to be cheaper than a complete axle rebuild if I get the truck hopping and snap the pinion off...


Thanks again, you guys are awesome
Will

[EXO]

allpro is having a sell, 269$ i do believe

[Will24]

Next questions... do the 56" allpros allow for stock shocks, d/shaft, brake hose, etc?


-Will

[suv]

I'd say slap the Allpro springs on there. They ride great and don't have much hop. Plus, when you get around to doing a SAS, you'll already have a pimpin rear suspension to match. You should be able to use all the stuff you already have (shocks, brake hoses, etc), because you won't be lifting it any higher with the new springs. You'll probably get more flex, but I doubt it will be so much that your components won't work.

[Will24]

My big question is, do the all-pro's move the axle at all? Somethings not clicking in my mind on how you can have a longer spring without recentering the axle


-Will

[WHEEL N TOY]

If I am not mistaking, You will have to weld on a new rear spring hanger to run the Allpro springs.

[alabamaboozer]

like everybody else said the lift block is where the problems at. The cheapest solution would be either to add a trac bar, anti wrap leaf, or maybe even a kicker shock. But by far the all pro spring will be the quickest and save you more headaches in the long run

[alabamaboozer]

the only way a longer spring wouldn t relocate the axle is if it has an offset center pin or if you weld the spring hanger on farther forward. I think the second is the case with the all pros

[Raptorman57]

Get the All Pro's. I love mine. You'll have to redo the hangers. All Pro recommends to move the shackle hanger back 3". That will give you nearly a 90* shackle angle. WAY to much in my book. I left my hanger in the stock possition and it worked but it put the shackle at about 20* and it would colapse REAL easy. I built a shackle that was 1" longer than stock and they sit at 45* and work awesome. I'd like to go back to the stock shackle so I'm gonna move the hanger back 1" and go back with the stock shackle. That should get the stock shackle to 45*.

[thefatkid]

Originally posted by Raptorman57
I'd like to go back to the stock shackle so I'm gonna move the hanger back 1" and go back with the stock shackle. That should get the stock shackle to 45*.

I'm not doggin. I'm curious why your are going back to the stock lenght shackles? i have 5" alcans and it seems I have to have 1.5" or greater to use the springs to there full potiental. I'm guessing you don't have a bind (forward/backwards) yet so going shorter would not hurt. I'm just curious of what your benifits will be.

Brian

[Raptorman57]

Originally posted by thefatkid


I'm not doggin. I'm curious why your are going back to the stock lenght shackles? i have 5" alcans and it seems I have to have 1.5" or greater to use the springs to there full potiental. I'm guessing you don't have a bind (forward/backwards) yet so going shorter would not hurt. I'm just curious of what your benifits will be.

Brian

Shorter shackles = lower ride height. I wanna loose about an 1" of height and this will get 1/2" of it. Then I'm gonna build new spring perches 1/2" lower to get the rest

[chad dillon]

lower ride height. I wanna loose about an 1" of height

Why not just put thefatkid in the back and call it close enough?

[Raptorman57]

Originally posted by chad dillon

Why not just put thefatkid in the back and call it close enough?

No fat kids around,just pencilneck twigs

[denver d]

try this threadhttp://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=204077

[Will24]

Definitely some cool ideas... I wish I had the equipment and the skill to do some of that fab work... I am def. going to do a set of springs first unless I come across a screaming deal on a ladder bar setup. Anyone ever priced out the bud built setup?

[Will24]

Not quite bringing this thread back from the dead, just out of a coma...


Here's what I can't figure out.... Ok, you make a spring a fair amount longer... for the axle to remain centered in the spring, wouldn't the axle have to be moved forward half the distance the new hanger is from the original? I am missing something here...

Will

[Raptorman57]

Originally posted by Will24
Not quite bringing this thread back from the dead, just out of a coma...


Here's what I can't figure out.... Ok, you make a spring a fair amount longer... for the axle to remain centered in the spring, wouldn't the axle have to be moved forward half the distance the new hanger is from the original? I am missing something here...

Will

All you need to worry about is keeping the springs center pin where you want the axle to be located. Heres an example.........

2 different spring packs. One is 48" overall length and the center pin is centered. This means the pin that locates the axle on the spring is 24" from the front of the spring and 24" from the back of the spring. The spring and shackle hangers are welded on accordingly to place the axle where it's desired.

The second leaf pack is 56" long but the center pin(not actually centered now) that locates the axle is 29" from the front of the pack and 27" from the back. In order to keep the spring's center pin (that locates the axle) in the same spot while going to a longer leaf,figure out what the difference is between the front halves of the two spring length's. The first (original) pack was 24" on the front half of the spring,the second leaf pack was 29" on the front of the pack.

29"
_24"
------
5"
This tells you you need to move the front hanger foward 5" to keep the spring center pin in the same location,in relation to the frame or body,as the original shorter springs. Use the same idea to figure out where to place the shackle hanger in the rear. Here's a picture to look at,it's a very simple process but sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words