460 EFI Mods

[ddestruel]

Thought i might post this response since it does answer a few questions on modifying 460 efi motors. This guy posted it on the towing page so i answered him but i got to thinking others may wonder the same things.

Dusty

460EFI : 460 Performance : 460 Fuel injection



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Quote : kajeepxj 03-25-2004 12:13 PM

Ford 460 guys

just wondering how many of us are running the EFI 460 here? if so, what mods have you done to it if any? i'm lookin to beef it up here pretty soon after i get it leveled out in the front. anyone?....bueller?


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Quote: ddestruel


- What year do you have, what are your smog laws/ checks. i did quite a bit with mine until i got rid of it for the diesel. I can give you some pointers of what worked and whats not worth the money

How much you looking to spend and is it auto or 5 spd.

EFI if it is speed density you can do the 302 mass air conversion swap the two alternately timed injector wires since the kit is setup for the later 302 which shares the 351 timing.



With that you can do anything, i milled my heads bumped compression to 9.75:1 ported exhaust, installed larger valves, CJ valves do fit and there is still room(Bigger is better) Installed a 69 429 cobra jet cam from ford motorsport. Do not swap heads the EFI heads are totally different the intake will not line up, and the turbulence will rob you of power. Go for a mid range cam, the EFI heads have poor exhaust flow but at least they dont have the smog pump porting bumps in the heads, instead it built into the manifold.

The cobra jet cam is a good choice if you can get your computer to work with it, it is a dual duration cam with a fair amount of lift higher and longer on the exhasut to help overcome the piss poor exhaust ports ford made. It is a mid level cam but with a big block you dont need a ton of extra bottom end grunt you already have it 90% of your driving is done between 2000 and 5000rpm and your peak torque number should be in the 3000 ball park even when pulling because when you are passing do you want the motor already maxed out and falling off like an RV cam does after 2000 or do you want the thing to pull through the mid range where you really need it. Peak torque when your lumbering down the highway or when you actually are trying to really do something?


A few 1997 trucks came with mass air, dont count on it you probably dont have it. if you do your intake tubes will go from 2 at the throttle body to 1 at the airbox.

If you opt to not go the mod route and stay with stock injection:
Doug Thorley makes and excellent set of headers the 1997 versions are clean without any exhaust pump porting, these actually make a good difference for your choked down motor. They have a thicker flange than most so they wont warp with the high heat of an efi. They make a geat difference in power add a K&N offroad race filter in place of your box and youll have good flow. There are sound baffles in your intake duct work, cut them out to.

You can install a 1969 429 straight up timing chain or a cloyes true roller and bump your factory cam up to top center instead of the factory retarded.

Install a good 3" to dual 2.5 exhaust and youll flow pretty well, i had dual 3" and it worked well with the cam and ported heads but until i did the mass air it triggered computer problems.

You can manually bump your timing up so a chip is NOT worth the money unless you have them custom burn to accomodate your modifications vs. the mass air conversion. I am not sure if this is an option when i did mine Mass air was the only option, but chips have come a long way.

To do the timing pull the ground jumper plug time it as you normally would. turn the truck back off and reinstall the ground jumper plug. I ran 13.5* advance and had some pinging under load.

Mine Ran like a stripped ass cat though.

You other option for power out there is the Kenne Bell Roots typer blower specifically made for the efi 460. they no longer make it but they are always on ebay, i saw one go for 800 once.

Also Banks makes headers that work well but for the additional $400+ over the Doug Thorleys it was hard to justify, on the Dyno the difference probably is about 3 HP and 5 ft/lbs. alot of money for a little increase.


E7TE heads off of 87 EFI trucks and early 88 trucks have smaller combustion chambers by a few cc's they can help bump compression up. otherwise the other head option is E8TE, I seem to recall a revised F3TE head too and i think that was what i had but i m not 100% sure nor can i remember the differences?


Kenne Bell had the best setup for a blower, Roots type with the intake check Ebay from time to time you see them. I have seen a Kenne bell live through several vehicles and not have any problems 200k+ miles of trouble free operation
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Quote: ddestruel

Also post this in the Ford section more people might pick up on it and have more advise and might be able to correct some of my info.

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[saf-t scissors]

Originally posted by ddestruel
You can install a 1969 429 straight up timing chain or a cloyes true roller and bump your factory cam up to top center instead of the factory retarded.

Were the EFI timing sets still retarded? I find conflicting information here, but most agree that it was only from 72-87.

E7TE heads off of 87 EFI trucks and early 88 trucks have smaller combustion chambers by a few cc's they can help bump compression up. otherwise the other head option is E8TE, I seem to recall a revised F3TE head too and i think that was what i had but i m not 100% sure nor can i remember the differences

There are only two EFI heads -- the E7TE and the F3TE. The E7TE is slightly bigger, but the later pistons are dished more, so the CR between the two motors should be the same. Stick a pair of F3 heads on a 88-92 short block to up the CR, tho.

E7TE are 95.7-98.7cc
F3TE are 89.5- 92.5cc

The E7 has a smaller stock intake valve -- 2" to the F3's 2.19", but I can't find the exh valve specs at the moment.

[rabidranger]

Originally posted by ddestruel

EFI if it is speed density you can do the 302 mass air conversion swap the two alternately timed injector wires since the kit is setup for the later 302 which shares the 351 timing.

Which 2 injectors?

[ddestruel]

I thought fo some reason there was an E8TE head. oh well thanks for correcting the info its been about 4 years since i have even looked at a 460 or talked about it but a good conversation can begin from what i posted and corrections can be made.

When i did mine the cam was retarded, but you are right i have no idea why they would do that, and i have heard conflicting storys there too from different ford techs.

I thought the exhaust valve was something rediculously small 1.60????? maybe? I do remember when we changed valves it was a significant change.

Thee are 2 different firing orders for small block Fords. Early 289's, 302's and some late model 302's run the 15426378 firing order same as the 460. Late model 302 HO's and 351W run the 13726548 firing order.

Early 15426378
Late 13726548

If you mix & match these firing orders you may encounter some driveability problems like poor idle quality. The Mustang EFI Mass air system is a sequential fuel injection system, which means that the injectors are fired in a firing order just like the spark plugs. Mixing these firing orders (spark plug & injectors) can cause a rough idle and poor driveability.

Its 2 plugs on each side 5 and 4 on the 302 ho plug into 3 and 7 and visa versus. I screwed the combo up a few times till i finally got a smooth idle what youar e shooting for is the injector timing to be the same as the firing order

Talk to Ford motorsport, dont tell them its on a 460 just tell them that it is an early 302 that you are converting to mass air. That way they arent totally confused. For the duct work youll have to order through the dealer the 97 california mass air tubing setup though since the 302 stuff wont fit.

[saf-t scissors]

Originally posted by ddestruel
When i did mine the cam was retarded

Thanks. I'm finding enough conflicting info here to suggest that maybe some were retarded, and others weren't. Maybe it was an emissions or high altitude thing... or maybe they just stopped using the retarded chains a few yrs after going to EFI.

I thought the exhaust valve was something rediculously small 1.60????? maybe?

Something like that. I can't find the specs on it now.

[leadmic]

I have a 97 MAF motor and Im finding the same problem finding out if the timming is retarded. I called the Ford tech line and they said it was retarded. But they dident even know that Ford built a factory MAF 460. It left me wondering if they were right about the timing. They also told me that the heads still had the smog bump in them so I gess Im going to have to pull a manifold and check for my self . They also said that the intake was 2.19 and the exhoust valves were 1.68? I dont know if thats right eather.
I would sure like to find out if the timming is retarded without pulling the front of the motor off
Leadmic

[saf-t scissors]

You shouldn't have smog bumps. The intake valve is right for those heads (should be F3TEs), but like I said... I can't remember the exh valve numbers.

Sounds like the Ford Tech line doesn't know WTF they're talking about, tho.

That's got to be a CA motor, right?

[ddestruel]

California, new york (metro areas), maryland (metro areas) Smog regions but yeah its a california specd truck they only made em for a few months.

Your MAF computer EEC V not IV has a program built in to monitor emissions before and after the cat, supposedly it detunes the motor when you modify, to combat this i have heard you can order a chip that is supposed to limit the computer from detuning with performance mods.

Also 302 and 351 performance replacement injectors should fit in place of the the factory 24# hr injectors, the 24's are good to between 325 and 350 hp i have been told and the 30# are the next step up.


BTW The ford Techs dont have a frickn clue they told me i couldnt do any of the above things that i did back then without the computer going apeshit and they also said the 302 HO mass air overlay harness couldnt be adapted to the 460. my question to them was why not? if the firing order is the same as an early 302 and the kit can be adapted to an early 302 why not a 460 its just roughly 50% more flow?

[leadmic]

Ford made the MAF 460 in 96-97 in Calif OBD2. The new programers that all the chip makers offer list the 460 MAF but I dont know how well they will work.
Leadmic

[built4wheelin]

my F3TE heads do not have bumps in the exhaust ports.

and does anybody know what kind of compression these engines have stock?
and how much would you roughly have with '88-'92 pistons with the post '93 heads?

whoever finds an answer on wheather or not our timing gears are retarded- please post up!

Originally posted by saf-t scissors


Were the EFI timing sets still retarded? I find conflicting information here, but most agree that it was only from 72-87.



There are only two EFI heads -- the E7TE and the F3TE. The E7TE is slightly bigger, but the later pistons are dished more, so the CR between the two motors should be the same. Stick a pair of F3 heads on a 88-92 short block to up the CR, tho.

E7TE are 95.7-98.7cc
F3TE are 89.5- 92.5cc

The E7 has a smaller stock intake valve -- 2" to the F3's 2.19", but I can't find the exh valve specs at the moment.

[ddestruel]

Originally Posted by built4wheelin

my F3TE heads do not have bumps in the exhaust ports.

and does anybody know what kind of compression these engines have stock?
and how much would you roughly have with '88-'92 pistons with the post '93 heads?

whoever finds an answer on wheather or not our timing gears are retarded- please post up!

Yes they are Retarded. BTT for the guy who wants to build the performance 460 EFI

[kajeepxj]

so what all can i do without taking the top end of the motor apart? i think i have about as much air flowing through the motor that i can now. cold air, k&n, cut out the restrictors in the piping to the intake, no cat, flowmaster 50 series. i am thinkin about throwing a cam and lifters in there pretty soon anyway. i still haven't found anything that can give me a real "seat of the pants" upgrade in power and it still blows ass towing up hills here in ga/tn/nc on the way to tellico. also, what are the stock numbers for my truck? its a 96, i remember seeing something in the neighborhood of 250hp/410 lbs/ft ?? 250 hp is rediculously low for a big block IMO.

edit: i don't have a ton of $$$ to spend on it as i have the jeep and my sportbike sucking up some funds as well. just trying to get an idea i guess of "bolt-on" type mods that you can do to gain some oomph.

edit #2: its a 5 spd.

[ddestruel]

the doug thorleys really woke mine up, otherwise you are limited past that, the speed density is easily irritated by cam changes so be aware that a change will not yeild you much

[Fireguy50]

Unfortunatly, you can get more power with a 5.8L using Lightning & Mustang technology.
I've got a 5.8L in my truck that will do better in the quarter mile than a truck with a 460.

From my experence, the major problem is the intake. No good aftermarket EFI intake upgrades for the 460. And the intake swap would need new cylinder heads.
there is a spider intake, but it's for 3000-7000RPM drag racing, not lower RPM power.

[GubNi]

Great info in here.

[bobbywalter]

Originally Posted by Fireguy50

I've got a 5.8L in my truck that will do better in the quarter mile than a truck with a 460.

.

not with a 8000 pound boat behind it