new event for 05' "Stock Rock Challenge"

[Whaley Enterprises]

This hot off press , still in planning stages, I wanted to get some input and reactions. See what kind of interest there is for this event. Let me know what you think

thanks Bryan (otter)

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stock rock challenge forum

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STOCK ROCK CHALLENGE 05


Mission Statement

Stock Rock Challenge was created to provide a competition series that will be based on 2 key points. Low cost and Fun. It is intended to be a starting point for anyone who wants to take four-wheeling to a competitive level. With minimal cost in mind, the rules have been written to allow persons to compete with similar vehicles. Through the use of detailed vehicle specifications, we strive to give competitors an equal playing field where drivers’ skills will be the determining factor.


Details

Stock Rock challenge will be a three event series. It will be held at Rausch Creek Off-road Park outside of Tower City, PA, just 30 miles North of Harrisburg, PA. The event will be a 2 day event. The competition will be held on Saturday with dinner and awards Saturday evening. Dinner will be provided for all competitors and judges. The public will be able to buy meal tickets. Sunday will be a guided trail-ride open to all public and competitors. The event will consist of 7 courses on varied terrain.



Entry Fees for Competitors: $100 per event. 100% of entry fees will go into the winnings pot. There will be a charge for spectators and will be announced at a later date as will the fee for dinner on Saturday night and the trail-ride on Sunday. Winnings will be paid first through third in each class. Overall series winnings will have a payout to fifth place.


rules

More classes may be added if there is interest
I only have the vehicle specs for the yj class and they are not in there final form

Jeep Wrangler stock spec class rules

A .Classes
Classes will defined as follows

1.87 to 95 jeep yj wrangler
2. 97 to present jeep tj wrangler
3. 79 to 95 toyota pickups
4. Suzuki Samurai


B. Tires
Tires 33 inch limited to the 3 types
1.BfGoodrich 33" Mts or Ats
2.Super Swamper ltb or truxxus 33"( this may be changed to Irok if 33’s become available with 15 inch rim option)
3.A totally new tire that is in testing stages and will be ready for 2005 season,It hasn’t been named yet.

C. Jeep YJ Specs
Drivetrain Stock componets
Motors inline 4 or 6 cyl naturally aspirated internal mods allowed
Raditors must be in stock location
Transmissions , stick or auto that originally came in jeep wranglers
Transfer case. Np 231 or 207 Tera low is allowed (no rocktrack cases or atlas)
Slip yoke eliminators are allowed
Axles
Dana 30 front axle must be retained
Disconnect axles can be used with a manual cables or replaced with one piece axle
Dana 35 Rear axle superior super 35 kits allowed
Dana 44 or 8.8 may be use but they must be of same track width
Welded diffs are allowed
Axle must have at least one locking type differential and a limited slip
Having Locking Differentials in both axles is recommended
Suspension
Factory mounting locations must be maintained
Shackle Reversals are allowed as long as it is commercially available bolt on or weld on kit and does not change the wheel base or allow for the use of longer springs
Factory wheelbase must be maintained
Shocks must be of the non rebuildable style and non adjustable (i.e. no rancho 9000’s)
Shocks must use stock upper mounting locations, The lower mounting points can be modified
Spring over suspensions are allowed
No buggy springs or ¾ elliptical
No revolvers or double shackles
Factory Belly skids must be used, but may be strengthened, but not changed for better clearance


Body
Front fenders can be trimmed but inner fender well must be present and the top flat part of the fender must be present
Windshield frame can be removed
No cut rockers
Rear wheel wells may be trimmed but not past the vertical pinch weld at the rear corner
Body must be of oem style, no aluminum or fiberglass
No dovetail or change to inner fender wells
Rear tailgate may be removed
Body must be solid and free of large amounts of rust
No Body lifts of more than 1 inch

Wheels
No beadlocks
Any type of device that aids in keeping the tire on the rim will not be allowed
Steering
No Ram assist or full hydro must use factory style jeep steering box

Fuel cells are allowed
Rollcages
Must be 6 point design the front 4 points must be tied into the frame
Rollcages must be constructed to at least 1.5x1.20 wall steel tubing
Spreader bars and Roof are required
Roof may be made of at least .120aluminum or .3/16 expanded metal
Seats must be mounted to the rollcage
Side bars that begin at shoulder and continue down to front leg of the rollcage are required these can be removeable
Gussets are required at four corners of the halo around the occupants
A bar is required behind the seats just below shoulder height
It is suggested to keep the main legs of the rollcage free from major bends,i.e. rollcages that are built to go around the dash and allow half doors to close may fail
4 point harneses required

Frame
Must be Oem or reproduction of Oem
No custom made frames


Vendors/sponsors wanted for the event!

[TEX]

$100 entry fees & "spec" tires still miss the mark of a true "low cost" event. I charge $40 per class for mud racing & this is the UPPER END for this type of event. Some places still charge as little as $15. In fact, I picked $40 specfically to keep the # of competitors under control.

Just my $.02.


TEX

[JOKKERAL]

Sounds interesting ..... I'll be watching for more info.

I'm gonna need some cage work to qualify.

[upandovr]

Sounds like fun but we would all have to relearn how to drive on little tires.

[RedBullJeep]

I am very surprised to see the tires on that list. Why not an MTR? Why not a ProComp? Between BFG, GoodYear, and ProComp, those are the three most common off road tires. Only one of those three allowed does not make it as affordable as you'd think as many would have to buy a new set of tires just to compete...that's not cheap.

[mark99tj]

I think eeryone needs to remember that Otter posted these rules to see what interest would be in this type of event. The exact details like tires can still be changed.

What do you think of the overall concept?

[Bert]

Well that leaves me out.

the Cage would need help.
No cross bar.
No gussetts,
No roof
I would have to find a factory skid plate. (Bellyup)
I would have to buy tires. Other than my 35 mtr's....
I would have to figure out how to mount my factory seats to the cage?????
I would have to figure out how to move my upper shock location back to stock?
I would have to find $100. Way too high, for what your asking.
I would have to UN cut my rear fenders????
I would have to figure out how to UN bend the cage where it goes in front of the dash..


Way to expensive for me.. I'll just sell it, Buy a buggy, and compete Nurock.

[Bert]

Concept is good. WAY TOOO MANY restirctions. My TJ should qualify. I havn't modified it that much.

[Whaley Enterprises]

Originally Posted by Bert

Well that leaves me out.

the Cage would need help.
No cross bar.
No gussetts,
No roof
I would have to find a factory skid plate. (Bellyup)
I would have to buy tires. Other than my 35 mtr's....
I would have to figure out how to mount my factory seats to the cage?????
I would have to figure out how to move my upper shock location back to stock?
I would have to find $100. Way too high, for what your asking.
I would have to UN cut my rear fenders????
I would have to figure out how to UN bend the cage where it goes in front of the dash..


Way to expensive for me.. I'll just sell it, Buy a buggy, and compete Nurock.

All those mods that you have listed would give you a big adavntage over someone who doesnt have them..
Ithink that by your response you dont understand what I am trying to acheive.
Not everyone that has a trail rig will able to just show up and compete, the sames goes if you were going to compete in neuroc, I doubt that most ppl build a trailrig to uroc specs...

[Whaley Enterprises]

Originally Posted by RedBullJeep

I am very surprised to see the tires on that list. Why not an MTR? Why not a ProComp? Between BFG, GoodYear, and ProComp, those are the three most common off road tires. Only one of those three allowed does not make it as affordable as you'd think as many would have to buy a new set of tires just to compete...that's not cheap.

The tire selection may need alittle teaking or even do away with it all toegether.. In a perfect world I wish that everyone would have to run the same tire. Different tires provide advantages, just like the red label krawlers. As for cheap, used bfg muds can be picked up anywhere. Nobody says you have to get new tires.

[DOUG38S]

I'm biased but I like what your thinking Otter. You'll see me there bouncing something off the rev limiter.

[Bill Collins]

i like the ideal,some of us do not have the money to compete in buggies.only problem is i live way to far off,maybe it could be brought down to hot springs,clayton,katemcy areas.i have a stock 98 jeep waiting to be built for my son,he would love this.i also have toyota's,would it be a class where all would compete together,jeep,totota,and sami?hope it takes off,good luck....

[Bert]

Originally Posted by Whaley Enterprises

All those mods that you have listed would give you a big adavntage over someone who doesnt have them..
Ithink that by your response you dont understand what I am trying to acheive.
Not everyone that has a trail rig will able to just show up and compete, the sames goes if you were going to compete in neuroc, I doubt that most ppl build a trailrig to uroc specs...

Otter, I realize that mine is a tj and you posted YJ but I figure it would be close.

And according to what you posted, mine isn't modified enough.

That's how I read it. Factory seats.. Do they have to be mounted to a cage? please explain. Cause if I can Iwill competee.

[JOKKERAL]

Not sure I like the tire rules.
Regular Old Super Swamper TSL's are illegal ... Yet a SS LTB or Truxxus are OK?
I'd say TSL are about the most common SS out there.

Cage & other safty stuff seem pretty strict .... not a bad thing I guess.

$100 entrance fee ........ too high

Otter,
I dig the concept.
Keep working on the details.

Joe

[Dwest]

Your asking someone to bring their DD/trail rig yet they need a full comp style cage?

[Whaley Enterprises]

A couple things

$100 dollar fee for one day of competition, dinner, and one day of trail riding. I dont think this is too much.
A weekend at rausch creek or paragon can be 50-75$ just to wheel. I can make the entry fee less but when you win all you will get is a ribbon (not trying to be sarcastic here, if enough ppl want lower entry than there can be less prizes.

As for the roll cages, is your life not worth a few extra bars? We may allow the use of steel doors or tube doors instead of side bars. I just think that having the seats tied to a cage is important. You could use factory seats, you wouldn't have to get fancy race seats.. But you could always get the black plastic seats from RCI they are about 60$ a pair.

"It is suggested to keep the main legs of the rollcage free from major bends,i.e. rollcages that are built to go around the dash and allow half doors to close may fail "
If you had cage like this you would still be allowed to compete, Maybe I should just take this out,, after seeing big stan roll and his cage collapse I just worry.

[ManglerYJ]

I LOVE the idea, except I can't even enter mine because of my motor/trans/t-case/axle swap. There's nothing left of my factory drivetrain. I may scrounge up a rust bucket YJ, spring it over and slap some 33" LTB's on it with a cage and nothing else and compete with it just for the hell of it. Sounds fun and cheap. (Cheap in compared to the $25,000-75,000 that people are spending on "comp rigs".)

[JOKKERAL]

Originally Posted by Whaley Enterprises

$100 dollar fee for one day of competition, dinner, and one day of trail riding. I dont think this is too much.
A weekend at rausch creek or paragon can be 50-75$ just to wheel. I can make the entry fee less but when you win all you will get is a ribbon (not trying to be sarcastic here, if enough ppl want lower entry than there can be less prizes.

OK, when you spell it out it detail like this .... your right $100 is resonable

[crawlmag]

Besides if he gets a few sponsors for the event that $100 fee can drop to $40 rather quickly. Just an idea but hell, 100 competitors at $100 is $10,000...... get $6000 in sponsorship and some magazine coverage and that drops the overall entries fee to $40 each.....

[DOUG38S]

Originally Posted by ManglerYJ

I may scrounge up a rust bucket YJ, spring it over and slap some 33" LTB's on it with a cage and nothing else and compete with it just for the hell of it. Sounds fun and cheap. (Cheap in compared to the $25,000-75,000 that people are spending on "comp rigs".)

I beleive this is the avenue he is going for. Keep it simple and realtively cheap and most of all have fun.

[ManglerYJ]

How serious are you about doing this? I think that this is truely the spirit of the sport and that you will get a LOT of entries into this as long as you don't fall into the trap that UROC has and keep changing the rules to suit certain teams and interests. I really got fed up watching what was supposed to be the low cost version of UROC, the modified class become more and more a high dollar league where if you don't have a sponsor, forget competeing.

This will be an easy way for people to get into the sport on the cheap and if they want to proceed up the ranks, they can further modify their rig and enter into modified categories. In the mean-time, they will have had some seat time in a comp and perhaps had a chance for sponsors to see them in action.

I'd like to see what you have in mind for the other classes, such as Zuk's as well. I definitely want to be part of this in 2005 if you can get it all together soon enough.

[Bmf24]

I would do this, but here is my problems:
I have stock toyota axles under my YJ
i have a D300 t-case
I have mickey thompson MTX 33's, sevr simular tread pattern to BFG muds

The rest of it i have no problems with

My other question-
Why no Cj's? I know my roomate would compete with his cj7

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Whaley Enterprises

I can make the entry fee less but when you win all you will get is a ribbon (not trying to be sarcastic here, if enough ppl want lower entry than there can be less prizes.

That's the whole point. What kind of event do you want. Do you want to bring out the guys who've not previously competed & just want to give it a shot? OR, do you want to bring in guys motivated by the prize purse? For guys who've never paid a nickel to wheel, even $30 or $40 sounds like a lot.

Part of the reason behind high entry fees is to boost the purse. The OTHER logic behind it is to keep OUT the guys who aren't serious about it. The lower the fee, the more chance you get guys who say "what the Hell, I'll give it a shot". If that's your goal, keep it cheap. If it's NOT, that's another story altogether.

TEX

[ManglerYJ]

I think the only way to really work the tire issue is to either have a tire sponsor provide the tires for the competitors (expensive and rather cumbersome) or to allow for competitors to use a tire size range. Two methods that have been used is the caliper method to measure actual tire size at a certain PSI, or to go by tire sidewall marking. The sidewall marking is WAY more subjective as most Swampers are closer to actual size, where most radials are at best within an inch of the sidewall marking.

[thejeepjeepkid]

I don't think those rules get much better (in other words I'm lovin' it), but a few things I'm thinking about are the tire size and the vehicles allowed. I think that if you limit the tire size to 33, the event would be boring for spectators because probably most of them have bigger rigs than that of their own. I think a 35 is an easy tire to accomodate and most rigs these days even for light trails have them.
Also the vehicles, it seems like there really should be more rigs allowed then just a few jeeps. Maybe make it more like what the stock class is in Neroc just not as extreme. Because the way I see it, a bunch of yj's and tj's on 33's seems kinda boring. But I can't waite to see how this comes out and good luck!