30 and 35 spline Maxi Drive Sals/D60 lockers

[ISUZUROVER]

I just got off the phone to Mal Story from Maxi-Drive.

Some of you may know that I have bought a pair of 30 spline longfields (and other bits) from Keith (rovertracks) and am going to build a hybrid Salisbury/toy (CV) axle with rover hubs/spindles.

I spoke to Mal about building 30 (or 35) spline (Dana 60 spline) lockers for my salisbury (since I already have an MD locker, I like the quality and simplicity, and the hytuff axles are about the strongest available).

Mal said they have already built a couple of 30 spline salisbury lockers for US customers and that it wouldn't be too difficult. He said that a 35 spline Salisbury locker would also be possible but it would be more $$$ since it would mean a completely new locking dog, rather than just a modification of the existing one.

If more people want these axles/lockers, it will only bring the cost down. The lockers are simpler and more reliable than an ARB and the HYTUFF (AMS6418) axles are second only to 300m (and HYTUFF axles are supplied instead of 300m axles by sandy cone (CTM) when he can't get 300m)).

Mal doesn't do the internet thing, so you can't email him, but his contact details are below... He said they generally make the lockers in a one year (or more) batch at a time, so if you are serious (but not in a hurry) that is OK.

4 Ryecroft St, Carrara, Qld, Australia, 4211
Phone: 0061 7 5530 3934
Fax: 0061 7 5530 3932

http://www.4wdworld.com.au/products/maxidrive/

I should add that I have no relationship with Mal, other than I give him $$$ and he gives me shiny metal bits.

If a lot of people are interested, this will be a very cheap axle option that is stronger than a stock 30 spline D60 and maybe as strong as astock 35 spline D60.

My build will cost me an estimated... (all USD)
$250 - 2x 30 spline longfields
$1400 - 30 spline locker and 2x30 spline hytuf axles (toy 30 spl one end, dana 30 spl the other) - This price will come down if more people order...
$150 - Salisbury centre (SIII 109, 4.7 ratio).
$30 - 2x 30 spl D60 side gears (MD locker uses stock side gears
Fitting of locker and toy CV's - free (for me).

Whichever way you look at it that is a cheap front end for the strength. And a rear maxi-drive 30 spline would be even less.

[red90rover]

So, Ben, are you saying you putting together a Salisbury front axle?? Where is the axle housing coming from or how are you building it. I ASSUME the $1400 includes 30 spline flanges??

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by red90rover

So, Ben, are you saying you putting together a Salisbury front axle?? Where is the axle housing coming from or how are you building it. I ASSUME the $1400 includes 30 spline flanges??

I am buying a SIII 109 rear salisbury (dirt cheap), and turning it into a front salisbury (coiller width - and bolting my existing outers on). Just a matter of chopping down one tube and fitting a new tube to the other side (in a jig of course). I didn't ask mal about flanges. He said about 300AUD extra for the axles off the top of his head, buit if he can fit the locking dog into a std production run (one year's worth of locking dogs) then it wouldn't really be much extra for that. The rest is the same as the normal salisbury locker. I didn't ask him about the flanges. I assume he made some previously, but I was planning to take the cheap option and weld some machined toyota side gears into some old rover flanges. When I bought my last locker the price was $1150AUD + flanges (240AUD). I heard the price had gone up to about 1400 for the locker. So roughly about 1300. If there was enough demand I'm sure 1400USD (or cheaper) with flanges would be a realistic price.

[red90rover]

Why not pick up some coiler outers at least and get disc brakes if you are going to all that trouble. Must be easy to find.

[evilfij]

Ah, why bother with custom maxi-drive locker (I see the point for the axles etc) when a D60 ARB is available off the shelf.

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by red90rover

Why not pick up some coiler outers at least and get disc brakes if you are going to all that trouble. Must be easy to find.

I will have discs. I already have Stage 1 stub axles (spindles), and Rangie hubs and discs fit straight on to them, just have to make the caliper brackets. If I fitted coiler outers I would have to get a LHD swivel to swap the track rod to the front. And the series swivels are probably a little bit stronger (they are bigger and heavier anyway).

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by evilfij

Ah, why bother with custom maxi-drive locker (I see the point for the axles etc) when a D60 ARB is available off the shelf.

(1) They are the simplest, most reliable and most well built locker (plenty of ARB o-ring failures - never happens with MD).
(2) 30 spline HYTUF axles - IMHO basically as good as 300m.
(3) If enough people buy them they will become off-the-shelf.
(4) In the unlikely event you ever need parts and can't get them from MD, all the componnts are evtremely simple and would able to be made by just about any machine shop.

[Buckon37s]

Originally Posted by ISUZUROVER

I am buying a SIII 109 rear salisbury (dirt cheap), and turning it into a front salisbury (coiller width - and bolting my existing outers on). Just a matter of chopping down one tube and fitting a new tube to the other side (in a jig of course). I didn't ask mal about flanges. He said about 300AUD extra for the axles off the top of his head, buit if he can fit the locking dog into a std production run (one year's worth of locking dogs) then it wouldn't really be much extra for that. The rest is the same as the normal salisbury locker. I didn't ask him about the flanges. I assume he made some previously, but I was planning to take the cheap option and weld some machined toyota side gears into some old rover flanges. When I bought my last locker the price was $1150AUD + flanges (240AUD). I heard the price had gone up to about 1400 for the locker. So roughly about 1300. If there was enough demand I'm sure 1400USD (or cheaper) with flanges would be a realistic price.

Why? Why go through all the work to do this and still have the rover outers. Just take a d60 and throw it under there. If you really want the outers to be a rover pattern, I can have a standard d60 with the big 15in disk brakes made into a Rover pattern for $300. Seems like a whole lot of expense to get back to the Rover problems, even with the Rovertracks bits. Keep in mind, U-joints are $25.

[UPOVR]

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

Why? Why go through all the work to do this and still have the rover outers. Just take a d60 and throw it under there. If you really want the outers to be a rover pattern, I can have a standard d60 with the big 15in disk brakes made into a Rover pattern for $300. Seems like a whole lot of expense to get back to the Rover problems, even with the Rovertracks bits. Keep in mind, U-joints are $25.

Amen!

[Leafsprung]

Buckon37s How much were the 9 inchers under your 90? Do they have rover outers?

Ben, The axle project sounds very cool. keep us posted.

[Bush65]

Buckon37s,

The reason for this is the difficulty getting D60's in Aus.

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

Why? Why go through all the work to do this and still have the rover outers. Just take a d60 and throw it under there. If you really want the outers to be a rover pattern, I can have a standard d60 with the big 15in disk brakes made into a Rover pattern for $300. Seems like a whole lot of expense to get back to the Rover problems, even with the Rovertracks bits. Keep in mind, U-joints are $25.

As John said. D60's (especially front D60's) are just about impossible to find, but series (rear) salisburies are dirt cheap. As a guide to cost in OZ - there is a front and rear D60 for sale in OZ at the moment - it is just basically 2 D60 housings, with rear 35 spline axles and front 30 spline stock outers (NO inners, centres, or ring and pinions) for $5500AUD ($4100USD).

However, the recent testing seems to show that my setup will be way stronger than a stock 30 spline D60 and also stronger than a stock 35 spline as well.

[Chris Hinkle]

If I already have a couple front salisbury axles (actually have three, but one is promised to someone), what pieces do I need from Mal to put 35 spline lockers up front?

[Buckon37s]

Okay,

Makes sense. Didn't realize the excessive price of the 60's. I still don't believe for a second that these are stronger than a 35 spline 60, but only time will tell I guess.

"Buckon37s How much were the 9 inchers under your 90? Do they have rover outers?"

I think the total cost was around $6500 for both. Rear has rover outers. Front has D60 outers with a rover bolt pattern.

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by Chris Hinkle

If I already have a couple front salisbury axles (actually have three, but one is promised to someone), what pieces do I need from Mal to put 35 spline lockers up front?

First of all let me say... you lucky bastard

If you want to go 35 spline it is a bit more work than 30 spline (but still possible). But what CV's will you run? If they are AEU2522's then it would be best to replace them with longfield 30 spline axles and run 30 spline. If they have 101 CV's then I think Mal has already made lockers in the 1.45" (ish) 21 spline of the 101's.

Assuming you want to fit 30 spline longfields and 30 (or 35) spline lockers, the bits you need are:

A pair of 30 spline longfields
Bored (slightly) rover spindles (any machine shop)
2xdrive flanges and 2x brass bushes (rovertracks or macnamara)

Then comes the MD bits
2 inner axles with 30 spline toy outer splines and 30 or 35 spline Dana inner splines
locking dog
locking actuator
new hemisphere half (or new sleeve for the locking dog to engage with for OZ market maxi-drive lockers)
lines and switches

All of the above is part of the normal Salisbury locker kit, just that the inner axles and the locking dog are different from the normal 24 spline setup.

If you want to go to 35 splines you will also need to swap one of the carrier bearings to one with a larger i.d. to allow for a larger diameter locking dog. This option would cost a bit more - as it is further from the current locker. But the 30 spline HYTUFF axles should be easily as strong as stock dana 35 spline axles.

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

I still don't believe for a second that these are stronger than a 35 spline 60, but only time will tell I guess.

I don't find it hard to believe that a 30 spline high quality alloy axle and alloy longfield can be as strong as a stock 35 spline shaft made from whatever (relatively) low-grade steel Dana uses. Material quality is just as important as diameter (if not moreso).

And sure it isn't comparing apples to apples, but this setup is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying CTM's and alloy 35 spline shafts to fit in a D60.

[LR Max]

Sweet.

Could I get some info on the 30 spline shafts you have for the rear? I want to upgrade my rear Series 3 109 salisbury axle (already has a detroit). What about the outer flanges? How much $$ we looking at here?

[aloharover]

Originally Posted by LR Max

Sweet.

Could I get some info on the 30 spline shafts you have for the rear? I want to upgrade my rear Series 3 109 salisbury axle (already has a detroit). What about the outer flanges? How much $$ we looking at here?

Check out Rover Tracks and Great Basin Rovers.
Both have the tech you need.

www.rovertracks.com
www.greatbasinrovers.com

To go 30 spline inner and outer you will need a new locker (or can you replace the sides of a detroit to get new splines?).
I believe that both Kieths and Bills rear axles can be had in a one piece design, no need for a flange then.

[Strange Rover]

Originally Posted by ISUZUROVER

As John said. D60's (especially front D60's) are just about impossible to find, but series (rear) salisburies are dirt cheap. As a guide to cost in OZ - there is a front and rear D60 for sale in OZ at the moment - it is just basically 2 D60 housings, with rear 35 spline axles and front 30 spline stock outers (NO inners, centres, or ring and pinions) for $5500AUD ($4100USD).

However, the recent testing seems to show that my setup will be way stronger than a stock 30 spline D60 and also stronger than a stock 35 spline as well.

Ben - the D60s are here thought. Ive bought 2 now for less than $500 each complete. But to get them into a rig I still need axles , gears and lockers so these still wont be cheap axles once they are ready to put in a rig.

Sam

[Buckon37s]

Originally Posted by ISUZUROVER

I don't find it hard to believe that a 30 spline high quality alloy axle and alloy longfield can be as strong as a stock 35 spline shaft made from whatever (relatively) low-grade steel Dana uses. Material quality is just as important as diameter (if not moreso).

And sure it isn't comparing apples to apples, but this setup is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying CTM's and alloy 35 spline shafts to fit in a D60.

I thought that the kit for the longfileds was something like $1400??? You can get Dutchman 35 spliners for $170 a side, 1000hp u-joints, not ctm's but seriously strong for $75 a piece and 35 outers for around $300 a pair. Thats $790, and much stronger than the longs. Anyway, this is what is available here and probably doesn't apply to down-under at all. It sounds like a lot of thought has gone into it. I am just coming from the (way happy I got rid of the rover crap) group. I'm sure it will work great.

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

I thought that the kit for the longfileds was something like $1400??? You can get Dutchman 35 spliners for $170 a side, 1000hp u-joints, not ctm's but seriously strong for $75 a piece and 35 outers for around $300 a pair. Thats $790, and much stronger than the longs. Anyway, this is what is available here and probably doesn't apply to down-under at all. It sounds like a lot of thought has gone into it. I am just coming from the (way happy I got rid of the rover crap) group. I'm sure it will work great.

The prices I am talking about for MD includes the locker. Add an ARB locker to that is another $700ish, then add the base price for a stock D60 front $500-1000.

That brings you to at least $2000US

I estimate that my front axle will set me back about the same or less for everything ($1350US (axles and locker), $100US Sals centre, $450US longfields).

I agree with you that with the D60 with 35 spline alloy shafts you would have a slightly stronger setup (with CTM's a lot stronger), but the way I see it I am getting equivalent strength for the same or less $$$, and at the same time keeping rover hubs, brakes and steering. In the US though I agree with you that the D60 would probably be a better option, unless you can get hold of some SIII salisburies very cheaply or you want to keep the rover hubs.

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by LR Max

Sweet.

Could I get some info on the 30 spline shafts you have for the rear? I want to upgrade my rear Series 3 109 salisbury axle (already has a detroit). What about the outer flanges? How much $$ we looking at here?

If you already have a detroit and are happy with it, then the option mentioned by Aloharover would probably be the best (and cheapest) way to go.

[Strange Rover]

Originally Posted by ISUZUROVER

I agree with you that with the D60 with 35 spline alloy shafts you would have a slightly stronger setup (with CTM's a lot stronger), but the way I see it I am getting equivalent strength for the same or less $$$,

I think you will have a very hard time trying to convince people of this point.

I think your strength will be similar to a built toy 8in axle and nothing like a 35 spline D60.

This axle will still be alot stronger than a stock rover axle though.

Sam

[ISUZUROVER]

Originally Posted by Strange Rover

I think you will have a very hard time trying to convince people of this point.

I think your strength will be similar to a built toy 8in axle and nothing like a 35 spline D60.

This axle will still be alot stronger than a stock rover axle though.

Sam

The testing that was done at the toyota jamboree supports my claim. The 30 spline 4340 axle that was attached to a 30 spline longfield broke at 8900ft.lbs. A stock Dana 60 shaft broke the ears off at 8300ft.lbs. Sure it was only a sample size of one and ultimate strength testing rather than fatigue testing, but I think the fact that there has only been one reported failure of a longfield CV so far bears this out.

And I am sure that MD HYTUFF 30 spline inners will have equivalent strength and fatigue properties to longfield 30 spline 4340 inners.

The toyota guys are breaking ring and pinions and hubs now but not longfields. The sals ring should be much stronger (about the same strength as a D60), and the rover hubs seem to be stronger than toyota.

[lwg]

Originally Posted by Buckon37s

I thought that the kit for the longfileds was something like $1400??? You can get Dutchman 35 spliners for $170 a side, 1000hp u-joints, not ctm's but seriously strong for $75 a piece and 35 outers for around $300 a pair. Thats $790, and much stronger than the longs. Anyway, this is what is available here and probably doesn't apply to down-under at all. It sounds like a lot of thought has gone into it. I am just coming from the (way happy I got rid of the rover crap) group. I'm sure it will work great.

Not entirely true. This cost includes lots of machining for the conversion plus the custom drive flanges. The actual Axles and CV's (Long's) run about $700. Go to Longfield Super Axles and see for yourself. Keep in mind it cost just a bit more since we need custom lengths. The rears are way cheaper.