say f- CA and move to amsterdam?

[Spawn_X]

saw the deuce bigallow male gigallo movie today (went way overboard with the humor, but still has funny parts) and got the idea to move down to amsterdam. lets see, few things:

1. i'd be moving in a few years, after i've gone up several years in IT in the right direction. then i'm pretty sure i could land an IT job, maybe even in an american company.

2. i hate 1001 things about CA, but when thinking of other states, each one has its own thing, and its just nice being somewhere not super cold/warm and having a beach by you. but i'm fed up with it. from dumb drivers, to traffic, to having to worry every night if you parked the car on the right side because it might be street cleaning day and you'll get a ticket.

3. having to drive far to work, in rush hour usually, and in general, have it be a hassle. i'm looking for a job within 6-7 miles of me (its a crowded area so there are a lot of companies..) so i could cut the driving time down and pedal a bike to work or just walk.

4. i smoke weed and they got some real good weed

5. everything bothers me here - everyone comes to los angeles to just milk it, and it sets up for a pretty bad environment..

6. i'm getting a lot into healthy eating and health in general, and the last thing i want to do is be in this dust-cloud.

7. i can't live my life like some of you sheeple can, i just see things and have opinions from a different stand-point (even when sober..) and it just contradicts most people.

8. i'm taking control of my life again with goals and motivations, and i'd be able to pull it off... it could jump-start my life in a way.

9. i'm cut from my family.. they're set here, so we'd get split up.. and we don't really have relatives here.

10. i haven't personally been there but from everything i gathered its just a different place/atmosphere. not necessarily in the middle of amsterdam but somewhere less crowded.

i know that people do things like this and dont' regret it. but just seems like such a big change that i don't know whether its something to consider or can it like a stupid idea. i'm just not happy here..

[mike]

First: most countries are harder to immigrate to than the US.

Second: Aside from rolling a good spliff what skills do you posses that aren't available in the Netherlands? Oh wait. Ok, start looking at that

[coolcruiserfj40]

go go now

[Spawn_X]

well if i kiss my way to a relocation job with some company i'm sure i could find a way.

the legal status issue is hardly a concern

skills? i'm getting back on track with IT. even used rockota's resume writer to couple hundred bucks for my resume. i pick it up fast, within 2 years i'm sure i could make a decent resume, and go from there. Hell, its europe, i'll get to fuck with ducati's all day long, or get into some of their cool shit. i'm not worried about going there and succeeding, i'm more curious about whether or not i should..

Originally Posted by coolcruiserfj40

go go now

california is fucked regardless of whether i leave or not.

[Foolish]

Originally Posted by mike

First: most countries are harder to immigrate to than the US.

Second: Aside from rolling a good spliff what skills do you posses that aren't available in the Netherlands? Oh wait. Ok, start looking at that

He could make millions working at a banana bar.

[mike]

Actually, they still have to justify your visa.

Lotta IT folks in Europe too, many VERY good. If you're serious do your homework, put yourself into a position to do it.

[Spawn_X]

http://www.amsterdam.info/apartments/

fairly cheap too. pay is basically 150-200 a week for a more or less average job it seems.. idunno

[Cherub Rock]

Amsterdam is not an easy city. It's been made out into this study abroad paradise for trust-fund college kids, and for that it's great.

Fun place to spend a week and smoke good weed for cheap (12 euros for an eight of stuff that'll make you grow another head)

But to live? It's not cheap. Eating, groceries, clothing, GAS (My Duc gets 45 mpg. That ain't miracle cheap at 4 euros a litre...3.8 liters per gallon, times 3.9 gallons on a Monster tank, which'll take you 150 miles...adds up), and cost of living is expensive. Shoes? Jeans? Deodorant? The euro is tough, man.

You wouldn't be able to afford to live downtown, and the associated neighborhoods are slummy and filled with Kurds, Turks, and Arabs that don't like Europeans, much less Americans, and certainly wouldn't appreciate a beardless white boy movin' in. There's a lot of drug abuse and related crime in those neighborhoods too, and it does get violent. Junkies are a huge problem in the NL.

Also, the North Sea is rising, and they're worried about opening up some dikes. They now sell floating houses in Amsterdam. They might fucking lose parts of the city in the coming years. Global Warming doesn't exist? Bullshit. We're living the dream. North Sea's up a meter.

Spreekt u Nederlands? Niet gemakkelijk te leren.

Naturalization under EU policy is stringent. Even work permits are. A lot of Dutch speak english, but only casually. The workforce wouldn't be easy to penetrate as a low wage earner. Dutch schools track students in trades from high school, so all the industries never have to struggle for workers.

You're gonna wanna find a way to get a visa of some sort, or quicker way to naturalize. Avenues exist. You don't wanna be up shit creek in Europe--they've become less generous with benefits and health-care because of the immigration.

Places like emergency rooms and stuff, they treat citizens who can pay first. There's tons of stories of junkies dying in the waiting room because they treat EVERYONE else first before they give out the freebie treatments.

Think we have freeloaders here? The Dutch are SICK of freeloaders, because they have socialized programs around the horn.

IT might be a good in; it's still evolving in Europe, much less so than here, and being monolingual may be forgiveable.

Also, Amsterdam isn't the only place with coffee shops.

Try cities in the south, like Heerlen or Nijmegan, or in the north, like Leiden, Rotterdam. They're also cool cities, probably cheaper, and every city in Holland is only a 2 hour train ride away.

As you can tell, I've been to the NL a few times. My mother is Dutch, and I'm a dual EU-USA citizen. I speak Dutch decently, and I can answer most basic questions, I think...

Good luck! It's an awesome country.

[rusted]

Amesterdam is DEFINITELY not cheap. Home of the $5.50 Big Mac, and I mean in 1995. They gotta go for $8 now easy. Most expensive beer I drank in Europe, and it's the home of Heinekin.

Also you'd be surprised by how closed, tight, and claustrophobic European society can be. At least the parts I saw. Yeah Amersterdam has a red light district, but it's mostly a financial center with very conservative people who have very narrow ideas about what constitutes reality.

Ok if you want to do the squatter thing, and hang out with junkies and sleep in a waterless, heatless, leaking shack, go for it. Otherwise, take the advice above.

If you think America has irritating mores, laws, and people, try Europe for a bit. You'll be back.

[Cherub Rock]

Originally Posted by rusted

Amesterdam is DEFINITELY not cheap. Home of the $5.50 Big Mac, and I mean in 1995. They gotta go for $8 now easy. Most expensive beer I drank in Europe, and it's the home of Heinekin.

Not calling you a bullshitter, but I was there in May, and Heineken is on tap everywhere, and "biertjes" (12oz) are 2 euros. McDonalds in Europe is lame. Like Chinese food in Colorado.

Originally Posted by rusted

Also you'd be surprised by how closed, tight, and claustrophobic European society can be. At least the parts I saw. Yeah Amersterdam has a red light district, but it's mostly a financial center with very conservative people who have very narrow ideas about what constitutes reality.

Yeah, and this can be really bad if you're used to wide open public spaces, wheeling, etc, even riding twisties on your bike. Everything is small, cramped, squeezed in. People everywhere. If you're European, this doesn't bother you. But a 80 squarefoot studio, including bathroom, with stairs at a 45 degree angle? Normal.


Ok if you want to do the squatter thing, and hang out with junkies and sleep in a waterless, heatless, leaking shack, go for it. Otherwise, take the advice above.

Originally Posted by rusted

If you think America has irritating mores, laws, and people, try Europe for a bit. You'll be back.

I agree. As a European, you're born, live, and die in a true System. It's a pretty good one, as far as political and artistic homogeny is concerned, and it won't encroach on your "freedoms", but there's really no freedom, in our sense of the word, to be had anywhere.

You can't own guns. You can't have 33" tires on your Jeep. You can't buy an acre of land and a trailer and say, This is where I live. The civic laws regarding recreational drug use and smoking cigarettes are lenient, but that's about it. Everything else is tightly controlled--for better or for worse--not that it isn't here, but don't think it's a paradise.

Like rusted said, in many ways Europe is a very, very conservative society. A waiter slapped my foot off of a chair I was using as a foot rest at a restaurant. There's etiquette, and people will let you know about it. Not like here, where everyone is afraid someone is gonna shoot them if they pipe up. It's a lot of little shit, but it adds up.

BUUUUT....

Let's see what we have here.

Beautifully maintained and efficient and cheap continent wide public transportation.

Any job has regulated 4-6 weeks of vacation, plus personal days.

Pay is regulated--no shit $2 an hour backdoor jobs.

WEED! Omifuckingod. Joints on the street after a good night at the bar.

My uncle uses his canoe to get to work everyday on the canals in Leiden. Doesn't own a car. Gets groceries in his canoe. Docks everywhere. Canoes? They get about 1,000,000 miles per gallon. Ever paddled up to a bar, got drunk, and then stumble back to your canoe, and smoke a joint as you paddle home? Um, awesome.

Beautiful medieval cities. Everywhere.

Youth oriented culture. Bars, clubs, women, fun. Everywhere. I went to one house party with my cousin that I just couldn't believe. They had a hookah with 12 pipes and a 1/2 pound of chronic. And then if you're lonely you go get a red light girl (not only in Ams.) for 40 euros, who's documented by the gov't (gotta be clean), who's beautiful (OMFG, no nasty crackwhores, you should see some of these girls dude), and she'll do anything. It's like having a new girlfriend every night, only cheaper.

And no weird sexual schisms like we have here. No frat versus jock versus nerd. Everyone hangs out, and everyone wants to have a good time. Totally secular. Easy to meet girls, and easy for girls to meet guys. No cheezy bar pickup lines. It's very easy to meet new people, and sex isn't stigmatized. I won't go into too many details about my own experiences, but the Dutch celebrate sex as recreation, and one night stands aren't "one night stands", they're "a fun, normal night." The whole slut/prude thing really doesn't exist as we know it.

Might seem superficial, but it's pretty fucking important to me. And partying doesn't stop when you're 30, or whatever. You see everyone at the bars.

(Now Germany...that's a fucking bar scene. That'll blow your mind, man. But they hate Americans, and no one speaks English. They won't give you a job or care about you at all.)


Mild climate. Never really hot, never really cold. Rains a lot, but old cities look really cool in the rain. Sounds cheezy, but it's true.

You have the rest of Europe right there. There're airlines that have 50 euro tickets to anywhere in West. Europe.

There is Bullshit, but like I said, it's a system, so there really isn't a lot of Bullshit like we have here. Hard to explain without delving into rusted's aforementioned mores.

It really is a more enlightened society--but again, for better or for worse compared to the US. I don't know what particularly you don't like about California, but if you post up this could be an interesting thread.

Haha, I can't stop editing!

Amsterdam is particularly cool because it's a fucking hardcore international community. New York has immigrants, etc, yeah yeah, but not like Amsterdam.

I got schooled (TAKEN TO FUCKING CLASS) in foosball (and I thought I was a champ) by two kids from Curacao. Bartender was from Aruba. Lots of Carribbean people (Dutch had many colonies), and tons of Africans. Everyone is super friendly, no one hates Americans (they hate Bush, but they'll laugh about it with you), and you just meet people from all over the place.

It's not a segragated society at all (except for the Muslims), there's no Good Ol' Boy bars or anything. You'll meet blacks, whites, yellows, browns, and purples (oh there are purple people baby, and they all go to Amsterdam).

Rolled joints with these two cracked out Russian kids in track pants and greasy hair. They didn't really speak English, but that was fun. (people share weed like it's fucking sacred, even right at the bar where a 2 euro spliff the size of a baseball bat is a foot away) Oh, and hash too. Man I stay away from that shit. Saw one Arab (those fuckers smoke a lot of dope) dude roll a JOINT that was nothing but a big hash butterfinger. Geez.

It's definitely an exciting city to live in. I'd encourage you to look into it. But don't pack up and move sight unseen.


A solid week in Amsterdam, at a decent hotel, with cash for fun during the offseason shouldn't run you more than $1200 including airfare. I got a rountrip with Aer Lingus from Denver to Ams for $650 in May.

[Spawn_X]

holy shit that's a lot of first hand information..!! Awesome.

I'm not looking to move there to go to the red light district (hate prostitution ) or get super wasted 24/7 (i'm a pretty light smoker), so i'm really not trying to move to live out some crazy drugged out sex filled life, i'm just sick of the things here.

On one hand, geographically, I'd only want to live in LA - we have from mountains/snow to beaches and islands. Its very nice to have that, as well as pretty much every store around you. However with that comes a lot of annoying shit..

1. you have to plan a trip if you don't want to hit traffic, and there's only a few windows. hell, you hit rush hour going to the beach at 10pm, 7 days a week too.. go figure. it takes an hour to drive 10-15 miles, so unless your "life" is conviniently around you, you blow a good portion of your time on being stuck bumper to bumper. but you can't get too far away from the city - otherwise you'll be in for a real long drive to work and back and to everything else, that's why i'm right in the city..

2. everything is about money here. i'm sick and f'ing tired of it. yes money is what pays the bills for everyone, but everything here revolves around it. most people don't see it or care about it, because they're all about that also. the primary concern here isn't to enjoy life, but to make more money. there is no concept of eating healthy or doing stuff that's good for you - the only real concern is luring more people in to Carl's Jr. to pig out after they saw paris hilton in the commercial.

3. did i say that i wouldn't move anywhere else in the US? even if i go somewhere else in cali, well, the state is still more or less the same.

4. i'm tired of dealing with so much stupidity. its like these people are zoo animals or something - most have no fawking common sense. i guess because its so crowded here, i witness it more often, and it irritates me.

5. riding a bike here as a daily driver isn't the most recommended thing. sucks for me since i love it, but not doing that again, its playing with fire IMO.

6. most people around don't have the same mentality. i get along with people in real life just fine, but am bored and not interested in them. i know more similar people here on PBB than i do in real life.

7. i don't support of agree with a lot of the shit that's going on. its different than being a crybaby about something - but its new law after new law, adding to many i personally think are useless. Fighting them is pointless, so is trying to change something. Like 30+ year old restored vehicles are the big smog problem in CA - yeah, whatever. but again, that all comes from money.

8. california is where people come to cash in and try to live the best life. that's why so many people are coming here, more sheep-type homes are being built (not sure what those are called, but just cities of homes that are fucking identical), and more laws are made to stop others from taking advantage of something, but they add up..

9. i'm not just sitting here and ranting about california. some people love it, i love only some aspects of it. i thought of every scenario, and don't see how i can stay/live here and be satisfied. its got too many issues that bother me a lot, so maybe CA's just not for me? but again, what other state will i go that's better? Texas? lol. every state seems to have their own thing. I'd go up north to Canada, but if that's the case, why not europe..

10. even if you have money here you still deal with the same things. just because you make 80/year doesn't mean you avoid the traffic, stupid people, misc. laws, etc. so money is frankly the last issue..

11. i'm already in a pretty packed and area and not used to wide spaces. Living in an apartment now and don't have any issues. I know there's a good chance i'd have to give up wheeling completely or have it be a rare thing on a much smaller rig, and that's fine with me. i have 100 hobbies/interests i could get into, so that's not a concern

that's some of the things i can think of. again, i'm not looking to move there to smoke all the weed i want - i can easily do that here. just looking for a different mindset of people, environment, atmosphere, laws, etc.. i don't smoke cigs, drink, or do any other drugs, so that's not even a concern for me either. Nor would i want to have an acre and live in a trailer - i'm an artist and would want an interesting looking place anyway, so i don't mind.

How is holland in general? from your post it seems amsterdam isn't where you want to live, but what about the surrounding areas? is it a more relaxed atmosphere in most parts? seems living in LA just comes with its big deal of irritable crap that i simply don't want to deal with (not a cop out, but a choice to not do it), but again, there's nowhere else in the US i'd want to move to.

keep in mind i was born and raised in russia, so in a way a lot of my upbringing is pretty different than the US, and maybe that's why i dislike it here so much?

appreciate your posts, real usefull to talk to someone who actually knows that place.

[Screwzer2]

I'm headed to Amsterdam on the 4th of September for the 5th time to spend a month over there. Yes, I am getting paid for it you fawkers
.

What others said is generally true. Its a great place to visit but really hard to emigrate to. That, and you'd probably have a hard time fitting in overall. Little things like privacy, etc. that you'll loose in a town as tight as Amsterdam.

Visit, enjoy. Come home and learn from your experience.

I wished I'd travelled there before I started my Internet Cafe (1994-2000). THAT'S the place to have an Internet Cafe

[DavidVanVorous]

Moving to Amsterdam or Belgrade isnt as big an issue as folks put out to be. I'm 3 mi from Belgrade and 15 from Amsterdam...... MT that is...

D.

[Spawn_X]

the only cafe i'd have is a Coffee Shop.

well like i said, i'm not necessarily looking to move right into amsterdam. that would probably not be so smart as like u said, tourism is different than immigration, but i want to get out of here into a different environment, and something along those lines would be cool..

privacy isn't a problem, i am in a crowded city/apartment already, and really don't mind people if they're not the same as the idiots around here.. i know technically i'd like another part of the states better, but i end up sacrificing a lot of things while the other crap stays the same throughout.

if all goes well and i actually decide to get more serious about it i'll definitely make a trip out there

[Spawn_X]

Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous

Moving to Amsterdam or Belgrade isnt as big an issue as folks put out to be. I'm 3 mi from Belgrade and 15 from Amsterdam...... MT that is...
D.

is amsterdam, MT 420 friendly?

[BajaCherokee92]

Lemme get this straight.

You were inspired by a 'Deuce Biggalow' movie to move to another country?

End yourself, twice.

[DavidVanVorous]

Originally Posted by Spawn_X

is amsterdam, MT 420 friendly?

I'd have to ask young son about that, I gave that up fer lent a number of years ago...

MT law is a whole lot more individual freedom of critical importance than most states I've lived in to date.

D.

[davidbrady]

well after reading all of cherubs stuff, i have to say i couldn't say it better myself, i have also lived in A-dam and would say that he is spot on. If you like culture, both european and other, it is the place to be. I will warn you though, most of my american friends that would come to visit, loved it and wanted to move there for there first couple weeks, after the thrill wore off, all the "little things" they were used to in America became painfully obviouse and most were ready to go home, i'd say if you do visit, visit for a full month at least, and try and hook up with some locals that are not just gunna keep you hooked into the standard tourist traps, tell them you want to live life like they do, get to learn and see what the "system" as cherub called it, is like. Also, it is very hard to find work being an imigrant, i'd go as far as to say unless you can get transfered over there with an American company, you will not find a job (unless you want to be a preacher, they have a major lack in that area....lol) Mainly what i think cherub and i know i, am trying to say is, is it is diferent, no better or worse than LA or any other city, they all have there problems and annoyances, if you move to A-dam you soon learn about new things that bother you, but in the end, people respond diferently to differnet things, you will be bothered by things in A-dam, but those things may be easier for you to deal with than the stuff that you deal with in Cali, different strokes for different folkes. If you visit and are comfortable and think you can find work, go for it, your still young enough that if in 5 years it turns out to be a mistake, you still have the time to move back and recover and move on with life with a great experience under your belt.

[Screwzer2]

What I noticed over time, more in Denmark than in Amsterdam, about the so-called "system", is that everything feels "done." By this I mean that every field has been tilled so many times there's not a rock anywhere. You don't see a lot of new construction overall and you don't hear or see of a lot of start up opportunities. It made me realize why my Aansestors from Denmark moved here: opportunity.

Others who have actually lived there can be more accurate, but my sense is that you get pigeonholed and end up doing the same thing over the majority of your career.

Would never work for someone like me who's had nearly a dozen careers in 30 years of working.

[Spawn_X]

appreciate that, thanks. i agree, if i go out there it'll have to be for a decent amount of time to evaluate it. i won't be hitting up any tourist spots either as i hate that kind of stuff. we'll see

[Bubba Ray Boudreaux]

This thread needs a case of Midol, some Vagisil and a pinch of Bezerker to make it complete....................................

[Spawn_X]

go to hell bubba.......

i don't see what's wrong with making a change in your life into the direction you want to try out

[Mohadeab]

Originally Posted by Spawn_X

appreciate that, thanks. i agree, if i go out there it'll have to be for a decent amount of time to evaluate it. i won't be hitting up any tourist spots either as i hate that kind of stuff. we'll see

Dude I think you could also get a good money exchange thing going on..eruo is worth twice as much as american currency...setup with paying double for the first month..get a job paying euro and then exchange your paycheck for american and start saving.....sounds good in my head...

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Spawn_X

4. i smoke weed

6. i'm getting a lot into healthy eating and health in general, and the last thing i want to do is be in this dust-cloud.

Dunno why, but this just made me chuckle

TEX

[Spawn_X]

some people are normal when sober, i'm normal with a weekly dose of THC into my brain. go figure. sober (before i even started weed) i had absolutely no motivations, no desire for anything, no wanting to move forward. sure i'm probably bipolar seeing the family history and my train of thought, but i rather smoke weed and be normal than take some other weird shit.

on another note, i'll be sure to post plenty of pics if i move there.